Challenges for a paladin


Advice


In a campaign where most of the characters would be interested in fighting evil... how do you build a challenge that won't instantly be smushed by the paladin, while the challenge also won't instantly smush the rest of the group?


The paladin does not have enough smites to smite every combat, and smite all the bad guys.
If it is a boss fight have minions there to block his path. Fighting him by trading full round attacks is generally a bad idea.


Yes, the paladin should (ideally) be an also-ran warrior, back up healer, moral conscience up to the boss-fight. Then he smites the **** out of the boss with his righteous rage.

The trick is, don't condone the 15-minute adventuring day, so he has to ration his smites as the wizard rations his spells.


Minions. If you want a challenge for the Paladin or any other damage dealer really, put lots of enemies. One to three enemies is not enough to provoke a real challenge, you need to use minions to keep them busy and tactics to make it difficult.

Dark Archive

If all else fails throw an Anti-paladin at him.

Unless the entire group is good (if its anything like my gaming group we get 1-2 good players and 4+ chaotic neutral [ugh])

Alternatively have the villain hire neutral minions. Constructs work well. (don't use this too often or the Paladin will start to feel like a fighter without bonus feats)


Sounds like a party imbalance issue. Sympathies.

You could swarm him/her

keep the enemies at range, so the paladin has to close-constantly-(cleric with travel domain or Dimensional dervish)

terrain obstacles/traps

touch spell wielding bad guys (so closing in to combat becomes costly)

concealement, stealth, and invis

or just target that particular paladin (in order to avoid bad feelings, you could just write up a recurring nemesis, so rather than just beating the paladin up, you're actually creating a story).

All I can think of off the top of my head.


Animals. Seriously, the only times our groups Paladin got mauled was by animals, or plants. No reason why the evil guys shouldn´t have big guard-beasties or their towers surrounded by deadly plants.


Also, constructs (animated tables through iron golems) can make for quite a pickle when you rely heavily on smite. I wouldn't use them all the time, but if the bad guy knows of the party, having a golem body guard specifically for the paladin might make for a spicy encounter.


Don't bother with minions. The Paladin will ignore them and just go after the big guy. Much better multiple tough guys like a enemy party. A group of 4 bad guys all who are all evil is much tougher than a single higher CR evil bad guy. With 4 targets the Paladin has to choose one. Have the targeted bad guy play keep away with the Paladin, never let the Paladin get a full attack.

For example I had 4 adult Black Dragons attack the party with a Paladin. That's a CR 15 encounter, the party at the time was 13th level. I could have gone with CR 16 Ancient black dragon but the Paladin would have wiped it out so fast with Aura of Justice. But 4 Adult dragons, that gave them a much more challenging fight even though it was 1 CR less.


Orcadorsala wrote:
In a campaign where most of the characters would be interested in fighting evil... how do you build a challenge that won't instantly be smushed by the paladin, while the challenge also won't instantly smush the rest of the group?

Neutral henchmen, be it constructs, animals, multiple 'bosses' are all good suggestions - as are terrain features that favor your enemies.

Me and a friend used to dual a pair of Paladins, just us and the GM. The toughest fight we ever had was against a crazed Druid and a pair of Dire Bears. With no Smites, we had to settle for being Fighters who can cast spells, swift heal, remove conditions, have ridiculous saves and immunities and super-charge our weapons. It was rough. :-P


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

All these have been mentioned before. But i'll just mention them again, because I've GMed paladins, and know that these things do work.

Something chaotic neutral, from the chaos planes. The Law vs Chaos should be every bit as big for a paladin as the Good vs Evil bit is. (The fact that once the paladin declared a smite because he "thought" the creature was evil and it wasn't was enough to get him to spend a round to "detect evil" on creatures he had never seen before.)

Or just make it a layered dungeon type thing, where you have to fight through several evil underlings that are a challenge and worthy of a smite before getting to the BBEG. I've found that knowing that there are more than one nasty evil to fight keeps smites down, and they only get pulled out for the really big fights.

Also multiple bad guys can also work. 4 orgres against 4th or 5th level characters means more evil than the paladin has smites.


voska66 wrote:

Don't bother with minions. The Paladin will ignore them and just go after the big guy. Much better multiple tough guys like a enemy party. A group of 4 bad guys all who are all evil is much tougher than a single higher CR evil bad guy. With 4 targets the Paladin has to choose one. Have the targeted bad guy play keep away with the Paladin, never let the Paladin get a full attack.

For example I had 4 adult Black Dragons attack the party with a Paladin. That's a CR 15 encounter, the party at the time was 13th level. I could have gone with CR 16 Ancient black dragon but the Paladin would have wiped it out so fast with Aura of Justice. But 4 Adult dragons, that gave them a much more challenging fight even though it was 1 CR less.

If the minions are blocking the path to the BBEG he will have to deal with them. That is pretty much how summon spells get used.


Illusion or things to hide auras so he smites when he shouldn't and doesn't when he should.

Have him be assigned jobs that conflict with smiting everything. Ex: He is supposed to protect the priestess, not charge off to the front lines. He is suppposed to keep the prince alive while the prince dispatches the BBEG.

Fast moving and/or flying archers.

Hostages.

Instead of 1 big bad evil guy and a dozen little minions, make it an opposing adventure parts with 4 pretty bad evil guys. Which one will he smite?

Bring em back alive. Can't just smite the heck out of them.

You must stop Dr Necro's evil plan, but he has powerful political patrons so you can't kill or even hurt him very badly. Otherwise you get arrested or assissinated.

A neutral abyssal sorc that summons evil creatures that the paladin can still smite, but he can't use it on the big bad neutral guy.

Dark Archive

Question. is it an archer pally? if he has to capture BBEG alive he uses divine weapon bond to give weapon the merciful quality, smite doesn't distinguish between lethal and nonlethal damage.


Thanks, guys. I actually thought of animals myself recently (fun to pit some evil druids against them and have them summon a lot of animals). The only past adventure that I think really worked was an owlbear. (I love owlbears.)


@Sarcon: It's a melee pally. Though she can shoot a bow it's generally not how she rolls.

Dark Archive

the tried and true melee pally, sorry for not having a suggestion, just a heads up for a possible work around to the "put things between pally and BBEG" tactic


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Oh, and one more important thing.
Don't go overboard on the neutral creatures.
It is a great power of the paladin to be able to smite evil creatures. Don't nerf it. It is better to give him more evil than he can smite than it is not not give him evil creatures at all.

That being said the evil sorcerer henchman (out of immediate LOS) spam summoning neutral elementals to fight for him is a nasty surprise. Or even spam summoning devils or demons (give the paladin a chance to use up his smites beforehand, he might use them all up).


I agree that not using anything evil is just mean towards the pally player. Also the group is mostly good-aligned (one CN character) so they are likely to seek out evil stuff they can thwart.

I did like the idea of a TN big bad summoning evil creatures or an evil big bad summoning neutral creatures, or using guard animals/neutral henchmen. Also, an orc horde could do the trick. ;) 20 Orcs means 20 attack rolls a round. One of them is bound to hit something.

I also like the hostage thing.


Have the red dragon tack the deed to their lair outside the entrance, along with a sign that reads "no tresspassing, no solicitation, no adventurers, and absolutely no paladins"

Chalk outlines with copies of The Birth of Light and Truth scattered about should do it...


Sarcon wrote:
Question. is it an archer pally? if he has to capture BBEG alive he uses divine weapon bond to give weapon the merciful quality, smite doesn't distinguish between lethal and nonlethal damage.

you know, i never looked at it that way. We just always assumed the smite was lethal damage. humpf...

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