So, after my first session with my new group, we were puzzling out the map, scale, movement and all. It occurs to me that Smuggler's Shiv is actually pretty small... it seems like if they keep pressing on (and depending on how long major 'site' encounters take), the heroes could do a full exploration in about a week or so, give or take. Am I wrong in this?
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Depends how willing they are to move their campsite and press on through the hottest parts of the day.
If they rest during the hot period, they won't get out very far before needing to start heading back to camp (especially with the difficult terrain of the island.)
My party quickly found out that in order to make any real progress, every few days they'd spend a day to move their base campsite down the coast. This enabled them to push out further and get back a little easier (especially in the southern half of the island where the trails aided movement).
I think in total, my characters were stranded on Smuggler's Shiv for about 3 weeks.
BUT! If your PCs are just pressing straight across the island with no base camp to return to (which would be very dangerous with the increased chance of wandering monsters, diseases, etc) then I could see them getting straight across in a week pretty easily.
We're about two sessions in (10 hoursish of gameplay) and I have a party of 5 (including a Halfling Cavalier on a wolf mount). General observations, etc:
Thus far, few of the encounters have proved challenging. They have disturbed 3 nests of x3 Dimorphodons, but only the first one proved difficult (good attack rolls for the monsters, poor Fort rolls for the PCs). They also encountered 4 cannibal scouts who managed to do some serious damage through lucky rolls as well. However, solo snakes and the Eurypterids proved to be pushovers, as did 6 skeletons in an early wreck. I'll be adding more mobs and bumping up HP on them or something.
Plot wise, things are moving moderately slowly. About half of the players are okay with this as they come from a strong video game background and are really going for the "no stone unturned" version of hexploration.
2 of the NPCs quests have been revealed (Jask and Sasha) and all the NPCs are cooperative.
The PCs have experienced all 3 dreams between them and have had two chupacabra sightings (one of them jokingly said "chupacabra" when they found the blood-drained monkey and the others laughed at him).
They have found Kovack and Ieana's camp, but they did not track them, seeming content to know the two were on the island. Similarly, they searched for cannibal tracks, but only to confirm that the cannibals had come from the interior and not attacked the base camp.
They have also seen Captain Kinkarian walking along the surf and wailing for Aeshamara, but they haven't found the Brine Demon. Right now they are dead set on finding the ship, because they have put a lot of trust in Jask's story and he has been quite helpful to them. Some still don't trust him and want to make sure he's legit. Good news: they're camped right up shore from the ship!
How are everyone else's Shiv games going?
Edited for: spelling and grammar
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My group played SFSS ages ago. We had one experienced player taken by the chupacabra on the first night and that set the 'oh no' tone.
I also remember the goats were a comic/horror highlight. Play up the goats, make them mean, have them follow the party and act like wolves stalking prey and it will add to the weirdness of the place.
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How are everyone else's Shiv games going?
We are done with Souls for Smuggler’s Shiv - here is how things went for us. Many suggestions on this board helped make this a smooth run - many thanks for suggestions and resources everyone. And a ton of thanks to James Jacobs for some truly memorable NPC allies and villains!
When our group was discussing if we wanted to do this AP I described the overall plot as Indiana Jones and the Expedition to the Temple of Serpent Doom. Setting the expectations helps my players either get behind an AP or down-vote it. This one got a lot of player support and I have a group of dedicated leaders, survivalists, scholars, and exploration oriented characters.
This helped in that the first part of this installment is all about survival. The wizard / scholar was a little at odds-ends until later in the adventure. Fortunately the entire group is pretty much self-starters and he found lots to do while talking about what Ieana was up to.
Ashton De Winter - Human Wizard (Generalist) male with proficiency in rapier. A disinherited noble and one of the foremost scholars of the Mwangi in Avastan and quite a linguist. Recently from college in Absolom he spent some time in Cheliax - he comes equipped with extra money to fund an expedition and a first-class map of the Mwangi. Boarded in Corentyn, he was intrigued with Jask Derindi and struck up something of a conversation with him via message spells during the evenings. The two had more than a month of scholarly discussions before being wrecked upon Smuggler’s Shiv. Was rather put off by Gelik from the start mainly from his attitude towards others.
Martiven Hadley - human Rogue (spy) male - this man is the nominal manservant to Ashton De Winter. Hadley deflects most questions about his breadth of skills as something he picked up in the "regiment" and questions about his past are deflected just as easily. He boarded in Port Peril, having gone ahead of Lord De Winter to arrange for supplies for an expedition into the Mwangi to be shipped to Eredar. He is charming in a very non-threatening way and women have a tough time not sharing what they know with him. He uses his bluff and diplomacy skills to great effect and even Aerys “warmed” to him (allowing her to indifferent) in the days preceding the departure of the Jeniver.
Dursirius "Dusty" Nolicci - human female mulatto (half-chelish/half-zenj) ranger (Archer) from Sargava. Her father was a disowned noble/mother a servant in his house. She endured regular beatings by her father but this forced her to became very adept at anticipating attacks. Dusty boarded in Blood Cove after joining up with Tio (See below) who helped her escape some thugs who were after her "cargo". She is fetching something for Lady Madrona Daugustana, a small, magically sealed duskwood coffer from an Aspis agent in Blood Cove - she is determined to see this delivery through. She and Tio developed a smile and nod acquaintance with Ishirou while in Bloodcove.
Tio Arabasti - human (Garundi) female fighter (two-weapon). A well traveled soldier with broad linguistic skills. Boarded in Blood Cove after she helped Dusty escape a pack of thugs - the two women are friends and to some degree are becoming partners. She and Dusty developed a smile and nod acquaintance with Ishirou while in Bloodcove.
Jask Derindi - (GMPC Castaway standing in since our healer player has medical complications) Was Loaded aboard in Corentyn Jask has spent much of his time aboard the Jenivere bored out of his skull. Long message spell discussions with Lord De Winter has forged a strong bond between the cleric and the young explorer before the story even started.
Numair - a big, muscular human (Garundi) male paladin - 2-handed. Player returned from active duty, so the character joined partway through. This guy is made of Str (17 +2 racial = 19), Con, and Cha.
I ran the opening scene like an episode of Lost. Basically, after we had something of a camp set up we did a series of flashbacks on how and why people were on the Jeniver, some background on each of the characters and establishing who knew whom and how well.
The characters explored a bit at first and debated quite thoroughly what had happened. After watching Capt. Alizandru Kovack and Ieana (Yarzoth) interact and reading the captain’s log, several felt that was a creeper who displayed classic stalking behavior and Ieana (Yarzoth) was just another victim, others (particularly Ashton, the wizard - she stole his MAP!!!) felt that she must have had some kind of spell on Capt. Kovack.
I plotted out a couple of l overnight camps that the pair made while exploring their way south (reasoning that they needed sleep and while knowing the general direction they wanted Ieana (Yarzoth) does not have a high survival skill). The group quickly found the captain’s first camp and tracked the south to a second camp then struck south into the main interior.
Here they encountered and skirmished with several groups of cannibals and many other Shiv denizens. The group was haunted by the corpses of blood drained monkeys and knew about the winged creature that was toying with them. When they found evidence of diabolism at one of the abandoned camps they became convinced a real devil was bound to the island! I did nothing to dissuade this line of thought, I even had Aerys dub the thing the “Red Mountain Devil”.
Pezock was a fantastic addition to the cast of NPCs. The group loved him - and he became a faithful companion to them as they helped him get revenge on the cannibals. He has been recruited to the “crew” as it were. Sasha didn’t trust him due to her “mommy issues” but he eventually overcame her distrust of him.
The Group worked through the individual quests, some quite rapidly some were left until the main threats to life and limb were disposed of.
- Jask’s first task was completed quickly and he was free from his chains. The female ranger has some romantic leanings towards him - I play him as a Morgan Freeman character which may be why...
- Sasha got her pets with the help of the PCs early on, and romance was brewing with the male wizard.
- Aerys was won over by the party rogue (Hadley) and the females of the group - Tio and Dusty. They took time to help Aerys get over her drinking and they found the viper nettle for her in good time.
- Jask’s second task was accomplished securing this freedom.
- Ishirou was liked by everyone, especially the party rogue - they spent a lot of time going over traps for defense, etc. He also was saved by helpful spells when attacked in camp. Ishirou caught more diseases than anyone else, if someone in camp was randomly attacked it would be him - the dice hated this guy. Each time the party took the time to nurse him to health before striking out again. He shared his map - and once the group had cleared the island they took the time to help him get into the treasure pit. He had to insist on the group getting a share of the money - they thought it should be his.
- After all this Gelik was odd man out and while they wouldn’t leave him to die in my mind he had to impress them. So he started by entertaining, and handling some of the medical camp duties. Once back in the fold he told them of the Night Voice.
With a fairly strong group I felt they needed more of a challenge, so in several cases I upped hit points and numbers of opponents as well as spiced up the cannibals with some customizations, including some different weapons for the three consorts, a couple of specialized hunter types (Barbarian/Rangers) and a couple of sub-chiefs who were looking to challenge Klorak the Red soon.
Not long after the incident where the Red Mountain Devil dropped a drained goat into their campfire the PCs discovered the dryad and made a third move of camps. It took them about ten days to hook up with the Dryad, and while moving their camp to her tree I had a monsoon hit - this was a couple days before they PCs decided to raid the Cannibal camp. This caused a ship, the Maiden’s Fancy, to go down in Desperation Bay, a single survivor clung to wreckage and washed ashore near the lighthouse on Smuggler’s Shiv.
The cannibal fight was quite memorable. The group saved an intended victim (the new PC paladin) in a daring nighttime raid with the help of all the Castaways. Even with the PCs creating distractions and taking the camp by surprise several were badly wounded.
The Castaways, Pezzok, the wizard, the rogue, the cleric (Jask) and the newly rescued paladin ended up holding the courtyard and fighting the brunt of the remaining cannibal forces while Gelik supported with inspiring words. The fighter and ranger headed to fight the consorts and Klorak the in the lighthouse. The female fighter went straight for the tower entrance but was slowed a couple of rounds while taking out the two guards at the front door. The female bow spec. ranger had hot dice and killed two of the consorts and badly wounded the third before several hits and a crit took her down to 1 HP - still, she quaffed a cure light wounds potion for 4 points and staggered on inside a couple of rounds after the fighter.
During this time Gelik was killed while trying to stay out of sight but still provide support. Several of the returning cannibals tried to flank around between the storage house and the butchery, they caught him from behind and killed him in a couple of rounds. This was a surprisingly sad moment, many in the group felt he had tried to win their support and they had failed him (it was quite a time later that they found the scroll of raise dead).
In the main fight the party rogue and Ishirou were both down but stabilized by the cleric. Aerys and Sasha were reduced to under half their HP, and the wizard proved that color spray is one of the best spells to have in this situation. Sasha took the flanking cannibals head-on while Pezzok managed his own flanking maneuver and thus earned Sasha’s trust.
The main event happened in the lighthouse with Tio (fh fighter 3) standing alone toe to toe with Klorak the Red and a (badly) wounded consort. The consort chucked the last javelin at her and missed, Tio tripped the consort with her whip and circled away while Klorak was still closing to attack. He got her with the AoO drawn by her whip use but missed with his regular attack.
Second round she thrust (rapier) and hit but he rushed her (she hit again on her AoO) and pinned her to the wall, touching her bloody wound and smearing her blood on his face and chest, eyes rolling and a guttural moan of something escaping his lips - this really horrified the whole group, BIG kudos to James. They still talk about this moment now that they are safe in Eleder.
The next rounds saw Dusty (fh ranger 3) coming in. She and the last consort fought it out. Both drop - Dusty at 0 HP and the consort with rage ending began bleeding out, well in the negatives. Tio and Klorak fought until she successfully confirmed a crit and tripped him with the whip then confirmed a crit with the rapier and ran him through. She had something like 5 HP left.
In the aftermath Gelik was buried with all due honor. The group cleaned up and rested a day or so before the strange weather (lightning from the tidal stone). Also, it turned out the captured paladin had seen Captain Kovak and a cannibal warrior enter the caverns together while he was a captive. The warrior returned alone from elsewhere and left the afternoon before the PCs attacked.
Pretty much the PCs really got into their groove at this point. Translating scripts making notes, when they found Captain Kovak’s note explaining things they reopened their discussion about what “That Woman” (as Ashton the wizard called her) was and what could she be after.
Mother Thrunefang proved to be a fairly easy fight with the addition of a paladin, even with me giving her extra minions on hand, maximum HP, and resistance to channeled energy. The fighter and the ranger spent much of the fight paralyzed but the wizard shone with darkvision (cast on the paladin) and glitterdust blinding a group of the minions.
Once the group started working on the pictograms they really got excited, this was what they had really been waiting for. Early foreshadowing of Red Mountain and the “devil” that was stalking them helped make the pictogram jump out at them. They recognized it in the carvings immediately.
Once they decoded the clues under the lighthouse they practically did a forced march across the southern part of the island. Running into clues that a few of the Cannibals were not present when they attacked the lighthouse. They were ambushed by a small group of cannibals that they wiped out. Tracking showed that at least one shod humanoid and one barefoot had recently used the trial up to Red Mountain.
The Red Mountain Devil was another great fight - the Ranger got knocked off a bridge by a flyby attack that sent her into the water. A blue shark took notice and its fin surfaced as it swam over to investigate causing all kinds of distress. She managed to launch out of the water to safety as it cruised in close enough to make a charge move and attack on the next round.
Once the fighter caught the devil with her whip and pulled it to ground the fight was pretty much a “Tank and Spank” as MMO players call it with the Paladin keeping it’s attention and the others flanking. It was satisfying in the extreme for the players to at last lay eyes upon this adversary and a stand-up fight was really enjoyed at this point.
Exploring the Temple of Zura was a lot of fun for the PCs, with the Wizard and Cleric being pulled along by the others as they stopped to try and translate various carvings. They by and large avoided the traps except the last one. This triggered a fight with the Gibbering Mouther and the soul dolls used this opportunity to stay hidden and track the PCs.
The final fight was beefed up to deal with 6 experienced players.
I must say while it was still a fairly fast fight it was memorable, with lots of back and forth with odd rolls making for some great play. The cleric, paladin, and rogue fought and destroyed the skeletons in a couple of rounds, leaving the paladin in a duel with the cannibal sub-chief.
The fighter, ranger and wizard took on Yarzoth. After taking a couple AoOs running past the skeletons the ranger took a few shots that did considerable damage forcing her to retreat early. The soul dolls jumped the fighter and ranger dealing considerable damage with their cause wounds attack, but were pretty quickly destroyed.
On Yarzoth’s return she summoned snakes and the three unloaded on her as the rogue snuck around the side. The ranger again drilled her with arrows and the fighter did good damage and managed a whip - trip before being driven back by Yarzoth’s summoned snakes. Oddly, the wizard is the one she managed to dominate and he turned on the other two - blinding them for a round and stunning them for 2 rounds with color spray.
By this time the skeletons were down and the paladin told the cleric to go help the others. The paladin and cannibal were merrily beating the hell out of each other the whole time - both rolled lots of hits but minimal damage so this drug on longer than I had thought it would. The paladin killed him in time to see the end of the fight up at the alter.
In the next round the mage made his save but faked her out, telling everyone to get back. He then wheeled and hand of the apprenticed her in the gut - Crit.... she tried to run for the statue but the rogue blocked her and the wizard finished her off.
The group figured out the statue’s trick and they again went crazy with translating the Azlanti scripts and wizard recovered his precious map. At the end of it they had cemented the other Castaways loyalties with excellent treatment and full shares of treasure.
We had a great SS session tonight! Explored the Brine Demon and put Kinkarian to rest; harvested viper nettles and held an intervention for Aerys; fought Zavilerira and her minions; fended off an assault from more cannibals; AND recovered Captain Quellig's treasure. All in all, a really fun 6+ hours of gaming.
Hey all,
I've gone through a lot of these posts and found some great reference materials. I have some questions for those of you who are playing with kids. I'm playing with my daughters, 13 and 10. This is their first time playing Pathfinder. I'm a veteran, started playing D&D when I was 10. They've seen me play Pathfinder with my friends and really liked what they saw. So I went through a bunch of the APs and picked this one because it looked like a fun one to play with them. It has a lot of roleplaying NPCs in it. I get to make up funny voices and they love it.
So getting to my questions. Being kids they don't think like adventurers. They've explored the Jenivere and made a base camp. 2 of the NPCs have taken up the entertainer and medic roles. I explained all the roles of the base camp to kind of give them a head start. But now they are stuck. They don't know what to do. I've explained to them that they are stranded on an island and it would probably be best to explore the island. But they are not sure where to go. They don't seem to be catching on to the plot either. Trying to give them as many clues as possible without saying, "OK. You need to go here." One of there PCs has already had the first nightmare. By the way, they have 2 PCs each. So they have 2 druids, a fighter, and a cleric. Any suggestions?
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Sounds to me like you need to shift to a more railroad adventure. One example I found somewhere in an another post is you start with the landing site for Ieana and the captain (area F). Ieana is trying to reach the southwest tip of the island and she may not be trying to hide her trail. Your PCs can follow this trail. Now you can make this trail pass by the Viper nettles, some dimorphodons, the ghost pirate, the treasure pit, etc. So along the way, your PCs will get to complete some of the NPC quests.
If they have trouble finding Ieana's landing site, you can make one of the dreams more explicit. Perhaps, in the next dream, one of the PCs finds herself looking through the captain's eyes on the night of the shipwreck. They figure out that Ieana is more than she seems and that she controls the captain. That they swam somewhere along the northern coast in a small cove.
Eventually, you can also force a meeting with the Dryad, move her tree closer to wherever your PCs make camp one night. This leads to the fungus island and maybe more direction for them.
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Another thing you can do is automatically have one of them (or another of the castaways) make the Knowledge check to remember hearing that an old Chelaxian lighthouse was built on the southern end of the island. This lighthouse would be the best way to signal passing ships for them to be rescued. That should at least get them moving in that direction. From there, have them stumble on Ieana's camp (you can move it to wherever you need it really) and you could always have her (and the captain's) tracks easy to follow from there to the cannibal camp/lighthouse.
As Maplewood said above, just make it a bit more of a railroad for them.
Awesome advice guys. Thanks a bunch. One of the things my girls don't do is take notes. So they tend to forget the things I've told them to lead them in the right direction. I'm going to write down some stuff that they need to remember. With that and the advice you gave me, we should get things rolling pretty good. Thanks again.
So far this AP has been a blast. My party has been taking their time finding their way around the island and probably want to explore/finish it completely before moving on.
And I was curious if this would this create any real "problems" in the XP totals at the end?
The npc's as presented have been a blast to play. My party took an instant liking to Jask and befriended him as soon as possible.
Sasha and her constant upbeat attitude and violent outburst, fondness of deadly/venomous/otherwise dangerous animals has been a hit. Starting out at unfriendly it took some effort on their part to get her to friendly.
Aerys Mavato has been labeled the local drunk and they are currently trying to get her of the booze.
I have had Ishirou run of in search of an escape after a massive streak of failed willsaves with the party not trying to interact with him in any meaningfull way. Going to have him be a captive in the cannibal camp.
The party has a strong dislike (burning hatred is more like it) for Ghelik and his antics. They turned him hostile in the blink of an eye.
Continous arguments and incidents let him to leave the camp after throwing a fit over camp roles.
I actually plan to have Ghelik be captured by the cannibals and unlike Ishirou I will keep track of the time they take to save him. Take to long and he will be sacrificed to the mother, who will then chew up a few bits and pieces of meat here and there (an arm and some fingers most likely. Maybe an eye) and leave him in the caves leading up to her fighting of ghoul fever.
This to serve as a heads-up for what is comming and to use him as a potential antagonist in the next part of the AP.
Nothing says antagonist to my party like a gnome with a eyepatch a prostetic arm and have him join up with their rival faction.
Ghelik is going to end up way different from what the AP assumes, but I can't help but play on the instant dislike and animosity the little guy received from the start.
I imagine I'd just making a mistake here, but for me the attack bonuses for the Eurypterids in the beastiary section don't add up for me.
P78:
Ochre E: BaB=0, Str=8 (-1) => Attack listed as +0 (should be -1?)
Common E: BaB=+1, Str=10 (0) => Attack listed as +1 (Agreed)
Bluetip E: BaB=+5, Str=18 (+4) => Attack listed as +8 (should +9?)
Spiny E: BaB=+9, Str=26 (+8) => Attack listed as +15 (should be +16?)
Spitting E: BaB=+12, Str=34 (+12) => Attack listed as +20 (should be +24?)
Since the differences between my "calculations" and what's actually listed are even varying, I don't know what to think...
I imagine I'd just making a mistake here, but for me the attack bonuses for the Eurypterids in the beastiary section don't add up for me.
P78:
Ochre E: BaB=0, Str=8 (-1) => Attack listed as +0 (should be -1?)
Common E: BaB=+1, Str=10 (0) => Attack listed as +1 (Agreed)
Bluetip E: BaB=+5, Str=18 (+4) => Attack listed as +8 (should +9?)
Spiny E: BaB=+9, Str=26 (+8) => Attack listed as +15 (should be +16?)
Spitting E: BaB=+12, Str=34 (+12) => Attack listed as +20 (should be +24?)Since the differences between my "calculations" and what's actually listed are even varying, I don't know what to think...
Did you factor in the size modifiers? I'm not looking at my books right now, but those might help.
Did you factor in the size modifiers? I'm not looking at my books right now, but those might help.I imagine I'd just making a mistake here, but for me the attack bonuses for the Eurypterids in the beastiary section don't add up for me.
P78:
Ochre E: BaB=0, Str=8 (-1) => Attack listed as +0 (should be -1?)
Common E: BaB=+1, Str=10 (0) => Attack listed as +1 (Agreed)
Bluetip E: BaB=+5, Str=18 (+4) => Attack listed as +8 (should +9?)
Spiny E: BaB=+9, Str=26 (+8) => Attack listed as +15 (should be +16?)
Spitting E: BaB=+12, Str=34 (+12) => Attack listed as +20 (should be +24?)Since the differences between my "calculations" and what's actually listed are even varying, I don't know what to think...
I SO did not, and that is exactly what I did wrong (knew there was something).
Thank you!
Glad to help! :)
And, next:
The Dimorphodons are listed with a damage of 1d6+3 plus poison, despite getting only +2 strength bonus. What am I missing here? Yeah, I'm rusty, ok? And as I'm building this for an online campain via roll20 and would like to have the math in the macros, my shortcomings become all the more apparent. :P
You're fine, sir - nothing to be ashamed of. I actually think I recall doing the same thing with the Euryptrids myself a while back.
I'm not sure where the extra +1 to the damage is coming from, but it could be that it's treated as as a "two-handed" weapon - in other words, doing strength-and-a-half. That would certainly explain it.
Let's see.
Bite attack. Treated as primary (base attack +1, STR +2, no modifier for size.) Looking under Natural Attacks, it notes...
If a creature has only one natural attack, it is always made using the creature’s full base attack bonus and adds 1-1/2 times the creature’s Strength bonus on damage rolls.
A-hah! So, yes, that's what it is. Since it only has one natural attack, it uses (STR+1/2) instead of just STR.
(Incidentally, their poison would be based on their constitution, if it was at all based on anything, though it could just be a static DC.)
Also, I'm really not sure what they did with the hp. That's... really odd.
...
Actually, I've just figured it out. Hm.
They just took the average, multiplied by 2 and added the CON bonus...
I'm not actually sure if that's standard procedure or not.
Checking the CR-chart, it's clear the critter is a little low on hp, for its CR... and if you added four hit points (as if it gained maximum at 1 hit dice), that would be perfect.
That said, it's a little high on the AC and reflex, but its other typical saves, weak attack and DC, and so-so flight (and unimpressive landspeed) make me think the arbitration isn't terribly valid.
Further, checking below the table, it seems that it's current hit point total is entirely within the guidelines for monster creation - in otherwords, they aren't treated to maximum at first level. Thus... I dunno. It's a little puny for a creature of its CR, but that's what it looks like they did.
Hope that helps!
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I do hereby Necro this posting for the sum reason of answering my questions. Do so to my satisfaction and you may return to your slumbers!
On the Topic of Mythic:
My players are intrigued with the Mythic Adventures which recently dropped and I am not inclined to hand them anything like the power of Mythic for which they have not worked. I was considering having the pictographs in the temple to Zura make references to an entombed champion of the serpent folk which they had plans to unearth and use in some pleasant debauchery, but the events of Earthfall made this plan null and void.
Fast-forward to present day Golarion and the PCs have a Mythic creature to earn their "wings" on by slaying it and taking its mythic power for themselves. I think the encounter should be hard and will warn them ahead of time that challenges like these will have to be searched out and will push them to prove their worthiness.
Do any of you have any thoughts about how best to make this event the most "mythical" it can be and any ideas about the "champion" itself? I had a Degenerate Serpent Folk in mind initially and now I am not 100% certain. I'll do the Advancement Track instead of XP so they'll be APL4 while I was interested in pushing a CR7+ or CR8 at them.
Thoughts?
Thanks in advance...
Nifty
Oof! I'll have to think about it a bit. Are they otherwise finished with the adventure? When do you plan on springing stuff on them?
Also, there's always the tidal stone, if my memories serve - it's power is certainly mythic in scope, and in my game, a shorn off fragment/avatar of Personification of Fury was sealed within. (The players were very impressed when he noted that he'd been worshipped as a god during those ancient days - a god serving a god; made Gozreh all the more epic). Doing something with that might work, either an attempt to free it or something similar. They were warned that it was NOT in "full communion" with "itself" anymore, so it was unlikely to influence the actual current "full body" of the herald.
Alternatively, I did some campaign-specific stuff with the arcanotheign. She might be great as some sort of mythic source, testing these curious mortals. You could even do something to combine the two, perhaps the arcanotheign using the Tidal Stone (and the PoF fragment within) to test them some how (as if by animating it, perhaps).
As far as the degenerate serpent folk go... maybe. I'll have to think. Sorry!
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My hope is to have a challenge available for the group for each installment of the game with the headless god Ydersius being the final mythic challenge IF and only if the group pursue the mythic challenges of their own volition. I won't sit them in front of their path but I thought to use what ideas can come from this excellent and auspicious player base to make the discovery greater.
Thanks Tacticslion, I look forward to hearing back from you.
Nifty
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Sorry,
I forgot to answer your question,
The players will know about the inclusion of Mythic opportunities from the get-go and that they will be very difficult.
For the starting adventure, I plan on it being the very last thing they can do on the Shiv prior to being rescued - at least until after they defeat/drive off the BBEG. On the others, I feel in the latter 1/3 of the adventure is the appropriate place to put them.
I am thinking about slowing the leveling progression to the Advancement Track recommendation minus 1. This will keep the work of advancing critters to a minimum.
Nifty
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Hey, no problem. I forget things all the time myself. :)
This isn't a full write-up or anything: these are just a few ideas.
Okay, so, after reviewing Serpent's Skull a bit, I've identified a few places that could be really good.
(This is in addition to those stated in my post above.)
Well, first, there's mythic versions of the more common enemies already present:
* mythic [savage] vegepygmy or violet fungs - scion of Cyth-V'sug and source of the planar breech?
* mythic [divine or agile] lacedon - the source of the ghoul fever on the island?
* mythic [invincible] red mountain devil - bigger version of the red mountain devil
* mythic [simple something - agile, maybe?] ghost - the ghost of the first shipwrecked soul on the island, and source of it's curse? it's put to rest by putting all the other ghosts on the island to rest? (this last means it's more of a logistical challenge than direct "overcome super-power in a fight" challenge, and they have to research and divine the proper way of putting it to rest besides; further fun: they all gain the haunted oracle "curse" or haunted one template if they succeed in addition to mythic
* or something similar
There's also the "further adventures":
* ningyos - you probably don't want to make this the mythic enemy, as it relies on you, not them, but it could be a sign of Zura's stirring wrath at the desecration of her great temple and a push for them to do something, even without your direct suggestion, which could lead to others
* harpy - make her an arcane or agile harpy and you've got a total-party-kill-waiting to happen (she's satisfied to stay on the island and feast on the blood of her "bodyguards" as a Zuran; she also has no need to go forth and hunt, meaning it's all on the PCs to come to her)
* were-rat cannibal - if you make him a were-serpent or were-bat (or both) instead, this could be a great source for either forshadowing the end (fighting a serpent) becoming a new incarnation of Zura (like an avatar) or to set up conflict between serpents and death (akin to the daemon/serpentfolk split in the last books); again, simply make him sit back and he'll be a great "you must find him" villain (which would be very hard to do)
Finally, you suggested an undead degenerate serpentfolk.
This isn't a bad idea.
If I might make a few suggestions, though:
juju zombie is tempting, as it negates magic missile (a common go-to low-level spell, as well as color spray and sleep (being undead), but that doesn't have a solid "feel" to it that a Zuran might create. Not enough blood-focus.
Vampire spawn actually work really well as a Zuran thing (perhaps advanced and half-fiend - or, if too much, maybe just the fiendish - to make it really "special"), you can make the spawn have come from a degenerate serpent-folk, and if you want to make it foreshadow Ydersius, nab a beheaded something and a young (ignore the size decrease, or explain it away as lacking the head) drunk dullahan.
Have them each uncovered separately in different locations, and defeated independently, but both have a slightly variant of the eternal template unless they're put back together (perhaps they get better unless a blessed weapon is sticking in them; once per day, someone must cast bless or a more powerful similar spell to keep them "unconscious"; the two parts must be brought together in the temple of Zura and someone must sacrifice some blood (1d4 points of damage); this causes them to immediately shrug off their unconsciousness, come back together, and then new fight!
The "trick" is that, if they're defeated once, they have to be brought together before sunrise the next day - no "defeat and wait" strategy works. If they are not defeated by sunrise the next day, they simply re-spawn in their graves, and XP (or equivalent) is not awarded for their defeat.
If you want to make it mythic instead of just powerful, you can actually make it mythic. I'd recommend the savage or divine (or arcane) for thematic reasons, and the agile for balance reasons. Be aware that if you (or the party) chooses "wrong" you not only can, but will have a tpk on your hands, especially with savage's defenses and bleed and a vampire spawn's level drain - at fourth level, you're asking for death.
If you wanted to be vicious, you could layer the juju-zobmie thing on top of the other (the vampire spawn) to get a few more stat-boosts.
Now, bear in mind, this is going to give you a very brutally powerful creature with relatively low hit points and hit dice - template creatures have that trade-off in that way.
If any of that seems to be too much or too powerful, apply the quick young template one or more times to balance to your taste.
The island of fungus might be a great place to bury one of the pieces, as it could represent Cyth-V'sug actively attempting to siphon off some of Zura's power (mythic energy from the body or head).
Similarly, the peak (it could explain why the Chupacabra there grew so large) might be a great place for the head.
The Cave of the Mother might be a great place to have one of them, as it would explain the association with undeath.
Finally, the tide stone might be an excellent place to bury such a creature - who's going to dig under that thing?
Any place it is might want to have it buried in solid rock. Not only does this inhibit divination (though not necessarily entire prevent it - it simply means requiring research, probably at the underwater Temple and across the whole island), but this also forshadows Ydersius' own sealed fate within rock (formerly magma). If you want an explanation, the people who did so used something like rock to mud, stuck the creature in there, and let it solidify.
I hope these help!
There's another way to get into and out of that room (the statues/carvings of Zura); Yarzoth as the fake NPC just points those out and says something like, "I saw that snake person do this..." or something like that.Here's my question: How does Yarzoth actually fool the party into thinking she's one of their NPC friends? It says that, if the battle goes poorly, she can gaseous form or whatever out into that other room. The room that does not appear to have anyway in except gaseous form/some kind of flying, and is otherwise enclosed. She then changes form into one of their NPC buddies there and... tries to fake her way out?
Maybe I missed something, but how the heck is this supposed to work?
Ok. I'm about to play that part, and when I read it I thought: why doesn't she fly outside throught Z7 and wait there?
I started this as a solo game for my wife the other night using the pregens. She is playing Kyra and Ezren while I GMNPC the other two. So far they have beat off the Ochre Eurypterids and explored the ship. After returning they freed Jask and made the gnome indifferent. Still need to set up camp. Might find another player or two as a pick up game, but not waiting on others as finding players is rough this time of year. Been reading through the comments and appreciating everyone's ideas and downloads that are still there. Unfortunately the checklist is not.
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I am starting a roll20 game with some friends this weekend. The roster is
- Athelstan Twice-Dropped, LN male dwarf bard from Five Kings Mountains, sent to Sargava to negotiate a merger between his uncle's mining company and one of the operations in the Bandu Hills
- Notmerlun Wyvernmane, LE male dwarf fighter from Five Kings Mountains, personal bodyguard of Athelstan with a secret grudge against Athelstan's uncle
- Chester A. Arthur, CG female dwarf cleric of Keltheald, peregrine cartographer sometimes contracted by the Pathfinder Society, and previously a stowaway on the Jenivere
- Thornton Poer, N male halfling ghoul bloodline sorcerer from Thuvia, left rich family to become a sailor and now works as cabin slip aboard the Jenivere
Once the PCs advance Aberwhinge to Helpful, he'll let them read the journal, if they like. I'm hoping that by reading the journals, my players will not be annoyed by Kline's role in the later adventures. Is this a worthwhile effort, or would it be better to just cut out Kline entirely, as has been suggested in other threads?
I am in week three of running SS, and the players are enjoying it. I hit a snag in the jungle though; I had rolled a random of 4 Cannibals. Distance to perceive is horrible, than come all the A.o.O. for movement, since neither side can 5 foot.
I have read through many of the 400+ posts and I would like to know what Mr. Jacobs had thought about his build when he created this playground? The Cannibals have Fleet and thus should move a bit faster, but when the "Wetwork" starts. making them fast, is not as beneficial as the feat Nimble Moves would have been. Charging has been taken out of the equation, so both sides are readying actions to strike when threatened plus gaining the AoO for the provoked movement.
I saw where another poster changed One of the NPC Boons, so that it granted them Jungle Fighter. Like it for the party hate it for the inhabitants. If they have two feats as a human, my feeling is that Nimble Moves is #1 / Followed by X-Y or Z. The monsters do not gain traits, so there is no love for them there.
This also comes into play with many of the encounters with ground based encounters. Just a bit nerve wracking @ the moment, combats look like throw / move draw /throw again the fights are in slow motion.... The Rages do not start until they can engage in melee, since it is a very short one (6 rds).
In that encounter the wizard hit one with a sleep, down! Bloodragers throw Chakrams kill (2) more. The last Cannibal died as described above, Movement provoked while Raging, plus a readied maneuver. Total damage to group a single javelin hit That did (4 pts).
At least they didn't take a prisoner and give the CE Slayer a reason to show off his intimidation / Interrogation tactic, which is to slow cube 1" sections of flesh and meat every so often to feed to the Dimorphodon we retrieved for Sasha.
I'm afraid I don't understand the issue.
The cannibals are armed with 3 javelins each, and are pretty darned good with them for low-level mooks (+3/1d6+4). If the party refuses to engage, just have all 4 cannibals move near-but-not-next-to and throw their javelins at an unarmored foe. That's likely to be a caster, and will be funny.
Letting a bunch of raging cannibals throw 12 javelins at a single low-level party member just doesn't seem like good tactics.
And the moment a party member stops sitting there declaring actions, have the cannibals move up and whack him/her. Remember there's no AoO for walking up and hitting someone unless they have a reach weapon. It's moving out of a threatened square that provokes, not into.
EDIT: And even by RAW, the densest forest is only 50% heavy undergrowth; there should be free squares lying around for people to move through/into. And it's YOUR world; build a jungle map that suits the kind of fight you want to run. I just dumped my dice box on a map, marked every square with a die in it as "bushy", and let the combatants have at.
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Campaign journal for the group I mentioned above. First session was a bit panicky when I realized I hadn't sufficiently familiarized myself with the castaways' personalities, but the players seemed to have fun.
Regarding the cannibals, George, you still have a chance to adjust them for later encounters, I should think. Fleet is sorta nice, but they've already got fast movement, so you should be fine swapping out that feat for Nimble Moves. Or just switch the tactics from those in the book - it looks like they hit harder with the javelins, and they've got a 10 Int, so they should probably be hanging back and using their mobility, as NH says.
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I am starting a roll20 game with some friends this weekend. The roster is
Athelstan Twice-Dropped, LN male dwarf bard from Five Kings Mountains, sent to Sargava to negotiate a merger between his uncle's mining company and one of the operations in the Bandu Hills...
This is cool - I also have a player who created Dwarf with parents who had owned a mine in the Bandu Hills who was abducted by slavers as a child.
I am in week three of running SS, and the players are enjoying it. I hit a snag in the jungle though; I had rolled a random of 4 Cannibals. Distance to perceive is horrible, than come all the A.o.O. for movement, since neither side can 5 foot...
I did not have this issue with the cannibals, because they only came up on the random encounter rolls when the PCs where on the trail or on the beach. I wish I had done more with foliage and difficult terrain in the jungle, but TBH the PCs traveled almost exclusively by beach or by trail in order to move faster.
That being said, we did find the cannibals to be pushovers. They only presented a challenge when the PCs opted to full-out assault the camp.
I am in week three of running SS, and the players are enjoying it. I hit a snag in the jungle though; I had rolled a random of 4 Cannibals. Distance to perceive is horrible, than come all the A.o.O. for movement, since neither side can 5 foot...I did not have this issue with the cannibals, because they only came up on the random encounter rolls when the PCs where on the trail or on the beach. I wish I had done more with foliage and difficult terrain in the jungle, but TBH the PCs traveled almost exclusively by beach or by trail in order to move faster.
That being said, we did find the cannibals to be pushovers. They only presented a challenge when the PCs opted to full-out assault the camp.
Our party mainly fought the cannibals on the trails and then at their camp. The javelins were the biggest threat to our lightly armored party, but the druid dropped an Entangle spell in the midst of the camp, which let the party pick off the cannibals (and skeletons) in 1s and 2s. The druid and barbarian (both fighting with long spears) managed to pin Klorak away from any help and just murder him in difficult terrain.
On the other hand, 4 measly ghouls and Mother nearly did them all in...
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Welp, players just failed diplomacy, got in a duel with Ishirou, and critted his head off in one fell swing. They all felt bad about it (OOC - IC, guy who killed him is LE) so maybe they'll remember him when they find the scroll of raise dead.
I love my players. Immediately after they identified it they started debating who to use the scroll on.
In the process of getting that scroll, of course, the ghoul bloodline sorcerer contracted ghoul fever! Good stuff.
In other news, that shocker lizard random encounter is SUPER rough on a new-minted 2nd-level party. I'd rolled random encounters in advance a couple weeks back and hadn't really paid attention to their stats. But 3 of these things can deal 6d8 damage at a DC 13 Reflex save - in the surprise round, if the party fails its opposed Perception and Stealth checks and there's enough dense jungle around. Once I realized their first attack would outright kill the Con-dumped skald, we agreed to just scrub that encounter.
In the olden days there were encounters that you were supposed to run from.
Especially in an adventure like this, I would put in more high level encounters that are more cinematic for mood and story. Maybe the PCs stumble upon a turf battle between a green dragon and forest drake. Initiative never gets rolled (unless they stupidly charge in or make no attempt to hide) and now they are more keenly aware that some things on this island are beyond them and maybe they should be more careful in their explorations.
I kind of liked that as it makes sense that not every thing you come across on an island jungle is suitably scaled to your level. :)
Contributor
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In the olden days there were encounters that you were supposed to run from.
Especially in an adventure like this, I would put in more high level encounters that are more cinematic for mood and story. Maybe the PCs stumble upon a turf battle between a green dragon and forest drake. Initiative never gets rolled (unless they stupidly charge in or make no attempt to hide) and now they are more keenly aware that some things on this island are beyond them and maybe they should be more careful in their explorations.
I kind of liked that as it makes sense that not every thing you come across on an island jungle is suitably scaled to your level. :)
I approve of what you're going for. :)
The problem I've seen is that it further discourages exploration - the party goes, "Let's just stay in camp and grind random encounters for XP!" One of the reasons I discontinued giving XP for random encounters in most campaigns.
Did you tell them they weren't in World of Warcraft anymore :-p
The problem I've seen is that it further discourages exploration - the party goes, "Let's just stay in camp and grind random encounters for XP!" One of the reasons I discontinued giving XP for random encounters in most campaigns.
Ahh, we stopped using XP eons ago and so this is never an issue for our group.
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Ahh, we stopped using XP eons ago and so this is never an issue for our group.
The problem I've seen is that it further discourages exploration - the party goes, "Let's just stay in camp and grind random encounters for XP!" One of the reasons I discontinued giving XP for random encounters in most campaigns.
Well, there you go. :)
At some point, I'll have to go full Tyrant Princess on my group and make them convert to no XP...
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In the olden days there were encounters that you were supposed to run from.
Especially in an adventure like this, I would put in more high level encounters that are more cinematic for mood and story. Maybe the PCs stumble upon a turf battle between a green dragon and forest drake. Initiative never gets rolled (unless they stupidly charge in or make no attempt to hide) and now they are more keenly aware that some things on this island are beyond them and maybe they should be more careful in their explorations.
I kind of liked that as it makes sense that not every thing you come across on an island jungle is suitably scaled to your level. :)
Oh no, I was totally ready to kill them if they were brainless enough to stay and fight. The difference is, the skald went from full hp to dead in less than 6 seconds, without any chance to run or fight. I might try that on an experienced player but no way was I gonna pull it on someone who just reached 2nd level in their first-ever RPG game.
(Anyway, I'm not sure the island is large enough to provide a food base for drakes and dragons. Plus, how did the drake get there? It's 40 miles from land!)
Hah, I would think a dragon could fly that long if they chose, but I was just using the drake/dragon for example. It would certainly have to be something that made more sense. Though, even for a drake, it could have been in transport as a hatching to an exotic market when its ship crashed.
Actually, from what I remember, the storyline does try and accomplish this mood with the 'dragon' (I think it was a chupacabra or something similar?). I remember a lot of non-ecounters at low levels, just enough to put you on edge and then finally a showdown once the party is high enough level.
I definitely agree about not instantly wiping out someone's character that is playing their 1st adventure before they can act.
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I approve of what you're going for. :)
The problem I've seen is that it further discourages exploration - the party goes, "Let's just stay in camp and grind random encounters for XP!" One of the reasons I discontinued giving XP for random encounters in most campaigns.
My players are actually very wary of the island, but they're still pushing on and exploring. The shocker lizards would only have been the 3rd random encounter (1st happened to the NPCs at camp and resulted in Sasha's capture by the cannibals; 2nd was four dimorphodons who knocked the main fighter unconscious and nearly carried him away to eat), and yet they've already made it to the south of the island. Even though they're getting XP, they still avoid fighting snakes and spiders.
Actually now that I think about it, the random encounters have been the most potentially deadly so far. Barring the Treasure Pit, at least. Guy the dimorphodons grabbed would've died from falling damage if the halfling hadn't been running underneath him, and Sasha would've died if the party hadn't split up and spent a day and part of a night running after her (which triggered 3 encounters, not including the spiked snares).
Have anyone's players tried to restore the Nightvoice? It is described as "mostly intact" and the only hurdles outlined in the text to making it seaworthy appear to be the lack of sails and the fact it's wedged in pretty tight between some rocks. Oh, and it's full of groaty fungus. But that would melt away on it's own in a few miles.
I would probably say that the ship's wood is so badly rotted by the fungus the whole thing would come apart before it could be leveraged out of the rocks... but I was curious if any other DMs had to stymie the players this way.
I would let it be possible once the threats on the island have been dealt with.
Until then, I would stymie their re-building efforts with frequent attacks, kidnappings, potential sabotage (maybe an NPC that hasn't had their personal quest fulfilled), etc. Plus the lighthouse camp or the underground temple are likely the only place to find material for sea-worthy sails. Maybe it takes a combination of both to fully get everything they need to make it seaworthy again.
The idea of the party reconstructing their own ship using skill is actually more satisfying to me than just getting the lighthouse re-lit and be saved.
Ah, probably. They would need material for back up sails.
So something bad needs to happen to the Jenivere. :)
Check out "On the Perils of Boating" on p. 54 of the module.
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However, if they actually go to the trouble of restoring the Nightvoice - weathering the usual cannibal raids (which destroyed my group's raft a few sessions ago) and random encounters - I might give them a +2 bonus on those checks. Of course, if no one bothers to put ranks in Profession (sailor), then they're in the same boat as before . . .