| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Perhaps the poster hasn't noticed yet, but SKR is no longer with Paizo. It's a bit late in a day to start a call for an official lynching.It may not have been abusive but it was incredibly condescending and therefore disrespectful. In addition to having nothing to do with what she asked.However, it reminded me of a short exchange I had with a Paizo staffer the other day. I feel that Mr. Reynolds's comments towards me were abusive and disrespectful. That thread was eventually locked, but for unrelated reasons.Just because someone properly uses periods to end their sentences instead of exclamation points, smiley emoticons, or "lol" doesn't mean that they're being abusive or disrespectful.
Seriously, if you took SKR's response to be abusive or disrespectful, you need some time away from the keyboard in order to get a fresh perspective.
That being the case it is very strange that he chose to insert himself into the conversation at all. That decision was made by him, so now he is a part of the conversation. He made that choice, not Vivianne.
He hasn't left yet. His last day is sometime in mid march, as I understand it.
|
It may not have been abusive but it was incredibly condescending and therefore disrespectful. In addition to having nothing to do with what she asked.However, it reminded me of a short exchange I had with a Paizo staffer the other day. I feel that Mr. Reynolds's comments towards me were abusive and disrespectful. That thread was eventually locked, but for unrelated reasons.Just because someone properly uses periods to end their sentences instead of exclamation points, smiley emoticons, or "lol" doesn't mean that they're being abusive or disrespectful.
Seriously, if you took SKR's response to be abusive or disrespectful, you need some time away from the keyboard in order to get a fresh perspective.
I detected no condescending tone, just a matter of fact statement of the reality of the situation. People will be butt-hurt just to be butt-hurt.
When you repeatedly ask someone if they know things, over and over and over in order to prove a point of your own superior knowledge (let alone if the point isn't even related to the topic at hand) that is pretty much the definition of condescension.
The topic was why haven't you done this specific FAQ yet that is simple. His response was yu can't say its easy if you don't know what's involved.
See, If we're to talk about that specific case, I read it as Sean explaining why sixty (or however many) clicks on the FAQ button didn't make it an issue of immediate importance to Paizo staff. I don't think Viv's inference (which Sean's post was a direct response to, and therefore related to the topic at hand, unless I've forgotten how conversations work) was any less condescending than Sean's rapid-fire job description quiz was.
Also, ninja'd by Havoc.
The topic was why haven't you done this specific FAQ yet that is simple. His response was yu can't say its easy if you don't know what's involved.
Right, none of that is related to what she asked. What she asked was [paraphrase] "Because Question has a bad attitude, does that mean that you won't do the FAQ?"
She didn't say it was easy. She didn't say it had been too long. She didn't say anything except ask a follow-up to Sean's response to Question.
<< off topic, making your user name "Question" makes it really difficult to write coherent sentences about questions with your user name in them. :p
See, If we're to talk about that specific case, I read it as Sean explaining why sixty (or however many) clicks on the FAQ button didn't make it an issue of immediate importance to Paizo staff. I don't think Viv's inference (which Sean's post was a direct response to, and therefore related to the topic at hand, unless I've forgotten how conversations work) was any less condescending than Sean's rapid-fire job description quiz was.
Also, ninja'd by Havoc.
The topic at hand being Sean's inference that he would not issue an FAQ because he didn't like Question's tone.
...And Sean's response was that Question's tone was the least of the reasons he didn't issue a FAQ.
...And Sean's response was that Question's tone was the least of the reasons he didn't issue a FAQ.
And that being his intended response leaves no doubt that the manner it was delivered was condescending. Giving a list of reasons in the form of questions designed to demonstrate superior knowledge is quintessentially condescending.
| 21 people marked this as a favorite. |
The topic at hand being Sean's inference that he would not issue an FAQ because he didn't like Question's tone.
While I can see this being a take-away, allow me to show you how I looked at it.
Staffer: ""
* several hours later *
""
... and voila, you have an interpretation of Sean's stuff that isn't "I hate his tone, and thus will refuse to act." and more, "Look, you don't know what it's like on this side of the development process."
Sometimes people respond well under pressure - but if that pressure hits an overload, they'll tend to withdraw, and it becomes ever-harder to concentrate or do anything productive. Especially when you're in a business where your entire method is mental - mental (and thus emotional) battles become some of the highest hurdles to overcome.
This idea isn't always an easy thing to communicate, either.
And, despite their skill at communication, and their tendency towards attempting a clear dialogue, Paizo staffers are human. Their brains don't always provide the "perfect" thing.
And different styles come off differently online than in-person. And people use different styles online than they do in-person. And different people take things different ways online than in-person. And so on.
And all this is added to a pile of stress when people criticize, critique, analyze, dissect, complain, praise, correct, alter, and edit your words for their own purposes.
That's not to say they don't love their jobs. Of course they do.
As a for-instance, my wife wouldn't give up being a teacher unless she absolutely had to. It doesn't mean there no elements of teaching that she hates or that stresses her out (though, from my way of looking at it, this is more of a flaw with our current system than something inherent to teaching).
Similarly, most all of the people at Paizo (probably, usually) love their jobs. But dag-gum can it get stressful, painful, and frustrating. And there are certainly elements that are never easy or are even always painful, no matter how much you love absolutely everything else.
And, no matter who you are, having someone (even different someones) question you at ever step of the way is something that can, and will, eventually get to you.
Some people respond to this by being (sometimes inappropriately) curt when it's un-earned. Some people respond to this by being unable to focus or produce mental energy to push through. Some people respond to this by getting a surge of energy and pushing through and handling the situation. Most people respond to this by a whole slew of different ways, including (but not limited to) the above three that I listed plus a lot more, dependent on a lot of factors in their life and the specific situation at-hand.
Thus, though I don't know his intent (and his statements could definitely be read in the way you took them), I didn't think he meant what you did. I try (though, heaven knows I often fail - and since all our posts are a matter of public record, any of you can sort through my posting history and see this) to always give people the benefit of the doubt. Even when I don't see how they should receive the benefit of the doubt.
Ignorance* instead of Malice, and all that. (Or, just as often, Disagreement instead of Malice - something that still isn't a bad thing.)
In any event, while I've seen some staff have personal stakes in an argument, and some staff be short - and, since the OP brought it up, some staff posts that were disappointingly painful - I don't think the staff is above the rules. I never have. It's like Laz said - you just don't do that sort of thing publicly. That would be a terrible policy.
* And, by the way, can we stop treating ignorance like the person is stupid/bad/depraved? Ignorance isn't a moral failing. It's IGNORANCE. It means, "The person in question doesn't know." not, "The person in question needs to be treated like a moron and/or public enemy." This applies to both sides of the coin. If someone notes that you might be ignorant (and this is talking to me, too), try to take a few minutes and see if they're correct, or ask how. See if you can get educated. And if they're wrong (and you're thoroughly educated already), then you can explain that to them, and then communicate from a better position. If you think someone is ignorant, let them know, sure, but then help them discover sources to help them cease ignorance. That way they will be educated, and you can communicate with them from a better position. Ta-da! Everyone wins. :)
Very long, but worth the read, thanks Lion.
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
It may not have been abusive but it was incredibly condescending and therefore disrespectful. In addition to having nothing to do with what she asked.However, it reminded me of a short exchange I had with a Paizo staffer the other day. I feel that Mr. Reynolds's comments towards me were abusive and disrespectful. That thread was eventually locked, but for unrelated reasons.Just because someone properly uses periods to end their sentences instead of exclamation points, smiley emoticons, or "lol" doesn't mean that they're being abusive or disrespectful.
Seriously, if you took SKR's response to be abusive or disrespectful, you need some time away from the keyboard in order to get a fresh perspective.
It was neither condescending nor demeaning. It was an opinion that you or the OP did not agree with. You forget that text does not convey emotion very well and I think that you and the OP both seem to have take it a step further and found insult and or as close to one as you imply in the quote above, where there was none.
I think in part that he was/is a moderator and or staff member at the time seems to inflame some peoples colorful thinking on what a post says or means. One of the things I was told to do when I was a moderator for TSR/WotC for 9 years... was that we had to step away from the keyboard for a while if we got hot headed. Sean was OUR boss back when I was hired and for several years. It was a tough job and we had to have thick skins. Speaking from experience, it takes A LOT to get Sean hot headed and to speak out of turn in an insulting tone. So I trust that he was not being insulting when he made the post in question.
So, with the above being said I am taking it as text being taken out of how it should have been, as a non-insult and, misconception. I suggest if you are taking something as an insult.. turn yourself in to a devils advocate and respond from the opposite perspective then what you would normally do and see how that looks and how your response could be colored by a misconstrued thought on how things were said and how they were meant to be read.
|
|
That being the case it is very strange that he chose to insert himself into the conversation at all. That decision was made by him, so now he is a part of the conversation. He made that choice, not Vivianne.Perhaps the poster hasn't noticed yet, but SKR is no longer with Paizo. It's a bit late in a day to start a call for an official lynching.It may not have been abusive but it was incredibly condescending and therefore disrespectful. In addition to having nothing to do with what she asked.However, it reminded me of a short exchange I had with a Paizo staffer the other day. I feel that Mr. Reynolds's comments towards me were abusive and disrespectful. That thread was eventually locked, but for unrelated reasons.Just because someone properly uses periods to end their sentences instead of exclamation points, smiley emoticons, or "lol" doesn't mean that they're being abusive or disrespectful.
Seriously, if you took SKR's response to be abusive or disrespectful, you need some time away from the keyboard in order to get a fresh perspective.
So Vivianne is the picture of a poster on a thread that lends itself to a furtherance of promoting cohesion of a thread and contributing to said conversation with either constructive criticism or in a positive way to keep the thread going without flaming anyone or anything or derailing said thread right?
It may not have been abusive but it was incredibly condescending and therefore disrespectful. In addition to having nothing to do with what she asked.However, it reminded me of a short exchange I had with a Paizo staffer the other day. I feel that Mr. Reynolds's comments towards me were abusive and disrespectful. That thread was eventually locked, but for unrelated reasons.Just because someone properly uses periods to end their sentences instead of exclamation points, smiley emoticons, or "lol" doesn't mean that they're being abusive or disrespectful.
Seriously, if you took SKR's response to be abusive or disrespectful, you need some time away from the keyboard in order to get a fresh perspective.
It was neither condescending nor demeaning. It was an opinion that you or the OP did not agree with. You forget that text does not convey emotion very well and I think that you and the OP both seem to have take it a step further and found insult and or as close to one as you imply in the quote above, where there was none.
I think in part that he was/is a moderator and or staff member at the time seems to inflame some peoples colorful thinking on what a post says or means. One of the things I was told to do when I was a moderator for TSR/WotC for 9 years... was that we had to step away from the keyboard for a while if we got hot headed. Sean was OUR boss back when I was hired and for several years. It was a tough job and we had to have thick skins. Speaking from experience, it takes A LOT to get Sean hot headed and to speak out of turn in an insulting tone. So I trust that he was not being insulting when he made the post in question.
So, with the above being said I am taking it as text being taken out of how it should have been, as a non-insult and, misconception. I suggest if you are taking something as an...
No need. I have been in customer facing jobs for the better part of 15 years. I have worked with 10's of 1000's of customers, I have trained 100's of employees. I have felt everything Sean is feeling. It IS hard to have someone criticize your work, particularly when you are proud of it. The professional thing to do is respond in a way that keeps in mind that (1) the customer is not happy and is reading/hearing everything you say with a negative slant and (2) the customer is giving or has given me or my company money for a product or service.
The unprofessional thing to do is respond with your emotion on your sleeve with your ego leading the charge. Sean's response was unprofessional on top of being disrespectful, condescending, and rude.
By the way, I'm not the one too close to see this dispassionately. I don't know Vivianne, I'm just a messageboards poster. You are the one who used to work with someone in the scenario. Perhaps you should take a step back and look at it from a customers perspective.
| 34 people marked this as a favorite. |
I reject the assertion that good customer service requires being polite to people who are rude to you.
I reject the assertion that good customer service requires being polite to people who are rude to you.
To an extent, I agree. There is a difference between being polite and and not responding emotionally. Additionally, proving "good customer service" is the same as providing "good service to customers," being condescending never fits that cause.
hey ross do you run your own business
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
BigD, I've been in retail for about a decade now, with five of those years spent in management and store management positions. I have trained more than my fair share of people as well, and I put pride and effort into my view of customer service, both in my work and in my training. I've received countless personal letters of thanks, phone calls, and revisits from the people I've interacted with. People remember me because I'm good at what I do. I've never personally failed a mystery shop report. In short, my major skill in life is going the extra step and making customers laugh and smile, and offer them a welcoming presence that has made people remember me across state lines.
I've never lost my cool with a customer before, and I've never yelled at them. But you better believe that there have been times that I've been sarcastic to them when they've been rude to me or my employees. You better believe that I've told them to their face that they have no right to speak to me or any of my employees in the tone that they were using.
And you'd be damn sure that I've asked people to leave my store when they've accused me or my staff of using drugs.
I used to work for a home decor store that happened to sell tobacco hookahs. I don't know how many times people made drug related jokes to me, but I do know that each time said jokes were followed up with a warning from me, and each warning was eventually followed up with their expulsion from my store when they didn't stop.
If you ask me, Sean handled things just fine considering he and his coworkers were being accused of laziness and drug use in two back-to-back threads.
If a customer is being abusive, I don't want their money.
Tacticslion, first of all great post. I agree with almost all of your points. It is a very good explanation of how something like this could happen. I also agree much of it is likely what did happen. However, I have issue with the connection from why I'm upset with a customer translating to it's okay to display that feeling on an open messageboard.
On a slightly separate point, no one is saying that the rant directed at Vivianne was the source of:
"I hate his tone, and thus will refuse to act."
I am getting that directly from his own words in the previous post to the one ranting at Vivianne:
Do you think your posting behavior and attitude are more likely to get the staff to answer your about specific rules questions you want answered*, or less likely?
Perhaps ymmv, but that statement strongly implies that he is now less likely to take action based on Question's tone.
| 12 people marked this as a favorite. |
I reject the assertion that good customer service requires being polite to people who are rude to you.
First and foremost, I still have never seen a Paizo employee being less than polite. Clearly frustrated, sure.
That said, I'm 100% with you Ross. One of the things I like most about Paizo is the humanity of the enterprise. These are real people with real lives who share themselves with us in addition to writing some books.
It isn't normal to have this degree of access to writers and developers. You don't get access to the programmers at Microsoft to tell them how much you hate the Win8 Metro interface. You don't get access to the lawyers at Apple to tell them how much you hate their lawsuits over rounded corners. You don't get access to your government to tell them how much you hate intelligence agencies spying on citizens. You - most relevantly - didn't get access to the writers and developers at WotC.
Here, these fine men and ladies volunteer their own time to be amongst us. They are accessible. They are real people with real lives and they share those lives with us because most of them are gamers, like us.
And it is for that reason above all others that it ignites my undies when a few squeaky wheels get personally outraged because their pet topic of the week doesn't get the attention they feel it deserves... as though a stupid clarification of a stupid rule in a stupid 500 page rulebook is EVER worth ruining someone's day over.
Seriously. Enough.
These Paizo people... they are our friends.
Yes, we pay them money for these books, so that these friends of ours can put roofs over their heads and feed their kids and dogs and have nice things. But you'd do the same for any other friend who watched your kid or shoveled your driveway or helped you till your garden.
Again, these friends come here and share themselves freely. They are our friends because THEY feel like being with us.
So enough with the turd sandwiches. There is NO question of how we are treated. We are treated orders of magnitude better than any normal company treats their customers.
Damn straight Ross, that nobody's thrown their hands in the air over these few threads recently and just shut the forums off in disgust is evidence that Paizo has the soul of a saint.
Time to quit whining and complaining as if we're somehow entitled to something more than we get. We are in fact entitled to significantly less than we get. We are entitled to cold, impersonal books, not the warm, interactive contact we gave here.
| 6 people marked this as a favorite. |
|
|
...It may not have been abusive but it was incredibly condescending and therefore disrespectful. In addition to having nothing to do with what she asked.However, it reminded me of a short exchange I had with a Paizo staffer the other day. I feel that Mr. Reynolds's comments towards me were abusive and disrespectful. That thread was eventually locked, but for unrelated reasons.Just because someone properly uses periods to end their sentences instead of exclamation points, smiley emoticons, or "lol" doesn't mean that they're being abusive or disrespectful.
Seriously, if you took SKR's response to be abusive or disrespectful, you need some time away from the keyboard in order to get a fresh perspective.
It was neither condescending nor demeaning. It was an opinion that you or the OP did not agree with. You forget that text does not convey emotion very well and I think that you and the OP both seem to have take it a step further and found insult and or as close to one as you imply in the quote above, where there was none.
I think in part that he was/is a moderator and or staff member at the time seems to inflame some peoples colorful thinking on what a post says or means. One of the things I was told to do when I was a moderator for TSR/WotC for 9 years... was that we had to step away from the keyboard for a while if we got hot headed. Sean was OUR boss back when I was hired and for several years. It was a tough job and we had to have thick skins. Speaking from experience, it takes A LOT to get Sean hot headed and to speak out of turn in an insulting tone. So I trust that he was not being insulting when he made the post in question.
So, with the above being said I am taking it as text being taken out of how it should have been, as a non-insult and, misconception. I suggest if you
I am not TOO close to Sean in any way. I like the guy and I consider him a friend yes.. but I am not defending him as you might think. I am merely taking about how I was trained and by him. I know how he talks, both in person and in general on message boards and even in chat boards.
Dealing with customers face to face is so so much different then dealing with them on a message board and or a chat site. I am not saying your customer service has no merit here but myself having been in the customer service industry wit face to face customer service, I have almost the same experience as you in some ways. I was in it for about 18 years with another company and dealt face to face with customers and such myself. I was a supervisor for said company where I was in charge of training and managing a team of people too. So while that helped me in dealing with people on a message board it in no way prepared me for what I was up against.I would say that we can debate/argue this until we are blue in the face. You are not going to agree with me and nor will I see your point of view in it being an insult or demeaning. Yes it was his company, his own work and or even that he might have had his emotions on his sleeve... but he is always one where he speaks from sincerity and honesty and with out prejudice in regards to dealing with people in both the gaming industry and it's customers. For without customers there would be no need for him as both author and or player of said games.
Yes we are all passionate and such about the games we play and or who we may buy them from.. if we weren't then we would not even be having this discussion. With that being said, it is time to let it go and let Paiso moderate the way they want. We all need to remember their job is NOT as a moderator.. but one of Author and designer. They come here because of us, to show they are as human as we are and to show too that they are unlike most other companies and be part of the community aqnd not above us.
I hope that Vivianne and BigD can be accepting of them as humans, chalk it up that text does NOT convey emotion well if at all and that it is to easily misinterpreted that your emotions might have been on your sleeves as well and seeing something not meant to be there nor intended by either yourselves and or by Sean.
BigD, I've been in retail for about a decade now, with five of those years spent in management and store management positions. I have trained more than my fair share of people as well, and I put pride and effort into my view of customer service, both in my work and in my training. I've received countless personal letters of thanks, phone calls, and revisits from the people I've interacted with. People remember me because I'm good at what I do. I've never personally failed a mystery shop report. In short, my major skill in life is going the extra step and making customers laugh and smile, and offer them a welcoming presence that has made people remember me across state lines.
I've never lost my cool with a customer before, and I've never yelled at them. But you better believe that there have been times that I've been sarcastic to them when they've been rude to me or my employees. You better believe that I've told them to their face that they have no right to speak to me or any of my employees in the tone that they were using.
And you'd be damn sure that I've asked people to leave my store when they've accused me or my staff of using drugs.
I used to work for a home decor store that happened to sell tobacco hookahs. I don't know how many times people made drug related jokes to me, but I do know that each time said jokes were followed up with a warning from me, and each warning was eventually followed up with their expulsion from my store when they didn't stop.
If you ask me, Sean handled things just fine considering he and his coworkers were being accused of laziness and drug use in two back-to-back threads.
If a customer is being abusive, I don't want their money.
I bet you didn't toss out the other customers in your store at the time. Vivianne didn't start either of those threads. Taking your frustrations with customers out on other customers is really not in good form.
Otherwise I agree that there are times you have to step in an professionally remind people they are in public and talking to real people (I am not my store). Sometimes you have to ask people to leave. Sometimes you have to call the cops. You never have to do so with your emotions out of check, you never have to be "right."
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Tacticslion, first of all great post.
Thank you!
On a slightly separate point, no one is saying that the rant directed at Vivianne was the source of:
"I hate his tone, and thus will refuse to act."
I am getting that directly from his own words in the previous post to the one ranting at Vivianne:
Do you think your posting behavior and attitude are more likely to get the staff to answer your about specific rules questions you want answered*, or less likely?Perhaps ymmv, but that statement strongly implies that he is now less likely to take action based on Question's tone.
I saw both posts. I understand what you meant. I actually covered another way that could be interpreted. As I said, I entirely understand how it comes across that way. Again, I take stuff that way that's not meant in that fashion as well. It's easy to do! Mostly I was saying the quote you are making from SKR can literally translate into the example I noted.
When that behavior and attitude evinced are harsher about a particular topic it can translate into a sharp increase of difficulty in others processing that topic, especially in a realm of (such as this one) a mental process, which are even more dependent upon emotional states in many cases than physical ones.
But, as I said, I certainly see where you (and Vivianne) are coming from. It's just... not how I took it. Easier for me to do, as I wasn't directly involved. :)
hey ross do you run your own business
No.
|
|
| 8 people marked this as a favorite. |
I said this in the other thread, but I think it's worth repeating here. The Paizo staff put an incredible amount of hard work and passion in to making the products we all love.
It really feels like some people might want to spend a little less time complaining or being demanding and a little more time simply saying ... Thank You
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Do I agree that myself and other posters could be more polite, constructive, and diplomatic yes. I respect and admire the work that they do. At the same time a little perspective is needed. I consider Paizo a company I buy products from. That 's it. Friends for me Te people I have known for years. If I ever got to know the staff I could be friends with them . Until then they are a bunch if people I buy products from. I go to a corner store to buy groceries . The owner knows me by name. We're not friends. Certainly not because I like the service and because in general I like the store.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I said this in the other thread, but I think it's worth repeating here. The Paizo staff put an incredible amount of hard work and passion in to making the products we all love.
It really feels like some people might want to spend a little less time complaining or being demanding and a little more time simply saying ... Thank You
The money I spend on their products says "thank you" louder than my mouth ever could.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
The money I spend on their products says "thank you" louder than my mouth ever could.
No, it doesn't. Buying a product just puts your impersonal tally on a balance sheet somewhere. While that's good for their bottom line, it's not personal. It's not going to have anywhere near the impact of a personal interaction.
No, it doesn't. Buying a product just puts your impersonal tally on a balance sheet somewhere. While that's good for their bottom line, it's not personal. It's not going to have anywhere near the impact of a personal interaction.
The money I spend on their products says "thank you" louder than my mouth ever could.
I don't know about you, but the ability to buy dinner for my family is EXTREMELY personal. It is far more than marking a tally sheet "Dinner Achieved."
Someone validating my hardwork and investment with their hard earned dollars is a very personal interaction to me, even over the Internet.
|
|
The money I spend on their products says "thank you" louder than my mouth ever could.
Seconded. First off Paizo is not a non-profit organization. It's our money allowing them to pay the bills. I'm not saying it entitles me to special treatment. To say it means nothing is a load of garbage. If I did not believe in the products,people or the company my money would be spent elsewhere. I used to be a huge fan of Palladium. Without going into why I don't support them I no loner promote, buy or even play Palladium products like I used to. I'm not the only one. Gamers forget that as a company it used to be right up there in the top ten next to Wotc and White Wolf. Paizo should not be taken be granted. Neither should the fanbase.
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
Seconded. First off Paizo is not a non-profit organization. It's our money allowing them to pay the bills. I'm not saying it entitles me to special treatment. To say it means nothing is a load of garbage.
The money I spend on their products says "thank you" louder than my mouth ever could.
I dont think anyone suggested it means nothing. The claim (which I share) was that it is more impersonal than a verbal/textual thankyou - in large part because it's difficult for any designer to go to the bother of tracking down who paid for the product. It's all just an aggregate thing.
That doesnt mean it's meaningless, just that it's less personal.
If I did not believe in the products,people or the company my money would be spent elsewhere. I used to be a huge fan of Palladium. Without going into why I don't support them I no loner promote, buy or even play Palladium products like I used to. I'm not the only one. Gamers forget that as a company it used to be right up there in the top ten next to Wotc and White Wolf. Paizo should not be taken be granted. Neither should the fanbase.
I'd presume everyone agrees with you that Paizo shouldnt take the fans for granted. In my opinion the big disconnect is whether that actually happens. I see claims that the staff are rude or disrespectful (or even abusive) and I just can't see it.
The exchanges I've seen put forth as putative examples are all where the staff have been blunt, uncompromising or unwilling to engage. I dont think any of those things are rude, disrespectful or abusive though. Nor are they indicative of taking someone for granted, in my view.
You might be correct that I'm missing something inappropriate that's there, however I dont think I'm in the minority. You might be wrong too, yes?
|
|
Memorax,
Please do not equate one posting made by one staff member as a way to make it sound like all staff members are a bad seed and that they seemingly ignore their fan base. Implying that their fan base could make or break their bottom line and using Palladium as a model for what a fan can do to a company... all wrong. Fans can loose confidence in a company and stop buying their product that is for sure. There are several companies that can attest to that some even still in business though slipping from the darlings of the fan base swiftly.
Palladium did NOT die from their fans. It died from poor business ventures that did not pay off... and then they asked their fan base to buy a $50 product to save their company and it did not happen. So If you are referring to the fifty dollar product you are absolutely right... but if any company did that they have a loosing prospect at best. It is just a matter of time before the business ended like Palladium's did.
But Paizo is not even close to that. As lisa has mentioned before with a Quote from President Lincoln, “You can please some of the people some of the time all of the people some of the time some of the people all of the time but you can never please all of the people all of the time.” Paizo has done a great balance in please most of the people most of the time. So lets not talk about couched innuendos please.
|
|
I'd presume everyone agrees with you that Paizo shouldnt take the fans for granted. In my opinion the big disconnect is whether that actually happens. I see claims that the staff are rude or disrespectful (or even abusive) and I just can't see it.The exchanges I've seen put forth as putative examples are all where the staff have been blunt, uncompromising or unwilling to engage. I dont think any of those things are rude, disrespectful or abusive though. Nor are they indicative of taking someone for granted, in my view.
Well Said!!
You might be correct that I'm missing something inappropriate that's there, however I dont think I'm in the minority. You might be wrong too, yes?
No doubt that it's possible.
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
Deanoth:"Palladium did NOT die from their fans. It died from poor business ventures that did not pay off... and then they asked their fan base to buy a $50 product to save their company and it did not happen. So If you are referring to the fifty dollar product you are absolutely right... but if any company did that they have a loosing prospect at best. It is just a matter of time before the business ended like Palladium's did."
umm- as far as I can tell from their website Palladium is still alive and putting out product...
Palladium actually got bought out early last year.. so yes it is still going and churning product out.. under new ownership though.
I didnt know that. thanks!
|
|
umm- as far as I can tell from their website Palladium is still alive and putting out product...
There is a big difference between a thriving company and one that is surviving. Palladium is firmly a company that is surviving and has seen better days. The right hand man of the guy in charge has gone on record saying they make less money and move less product. Which I assume to mean that they have less fans then they did before.
The exchanges I've seen put forth as putative examples are all where the staff have been blunt, uncompromising or unwilling to engage. I dont think any of those things are rude, disrespectful or abusive though. Nor are they indicative of taking someone for granted, in my view.
To be fair I do thing some fans and staff members have been less than diplomatic in responding to threads in the forum. Myself included. Here the thing though I work in customer service where I sell a product to the consumer. Your going to get rude customers sometimes. It's unavoidable. I'm not saying that they should just let themselves be yelled at so to speak. Yet if one does not have a thick skin it may be time to look for another job. It's the first thing I tell new employees. If they don't like being told negative things by customers it's not the job for them.
In the end one does not go into a line of work where consumer feedback is part of the job. Then cry foul when one gets more than just positive feedback.