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Pathfinder Player Companion: Dungeoneer's Handbook (PFRPG)

3.70/5 (based on 6 ratings)
Pathfinder Player Companion: Dungeoneer's Handbook (PFRPG)
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Perhaps no environment is more iconic, more varied, and more fearsome than the dungeon, and when you delve into the perilous, monster-infested ruins of ages lost, you need all the help you can get! Intrepid explorers in search of the ultimate tomb raider’s boon need look no further than Pathfinder Player Companion: Dungeoneer’s Handbook! Packed with useful tips, handy tricks, and new rules and options, this volume is a must-have for any adventurer looking to brave the world’s most infamous dungeons.

Dungeoneer’s Handbook presents player-focused, in-depth discussion of dungeons, their dangers, and ways to survive your exploration—whether it's your first time or your twentieth. Each Pathfinder Player Companion includes new options and tools for every Pathfinder RPG player. Inside this book, you’ll find:

  • Informative and inspiring articles on iconic dungeon elements and tips on how to survive the deadly traps, monstrous inhabitants, and cursed treasures you’ll undoubtedly encounter.
  • New archetypes perfect for characters that frequently find themselves deep underground or in forgotten catacombs, including the trap breaker alchemist, terra-cotta monk, and dungeon rover ranger.
  • New spells and magic items for every dungeon situation.
  • Rules for dungeon guides—informative (but oft-misleading) tomes that can be either a boon or a curse for those aimlessly wandering dungeon halls.
  • Archetypes and rules for hirelings who can take care of your estate and other mundane matters while you’re away on your latest excursion.
  • New dungeon-related feats, traits, dungeoneering aides, alchemical equipment, and more!
This Pathfinder Player Companion is intended for use with the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, but can easily be incorporated into any fantasy world.

Each monthly 32-page Pathfinder Player Companion contains several player-focused articles exploring the volume’s theme as well as short articles with innovative new rules for all types of characters, as well as traits to better anchor the player to the campaign.

ISBN-13: 978-1-60125-510-5

Other Resources: This product is also available on the following platforms:

Hero Lab Online
Fantasy Grounds Virtual Tabletop
Archives of Nethys

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3.70/5 (based on 6 ratings)

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Solid, useful, but thin

4/5 —

OK, this is a fine & useful guidebook for Pathfinder players. It has lots of crunchy fluff and fluffy crunch. Six Archetypes, eight feats, four traits, and over two dozen items. Section on Dungeon guids (books and maps), famous dungeons, traps, etc.

They have one piece of advice which can be disastrously wrong: The advice that the main route into a chamber is usually not trapped, as it’s a route that would have to be taken many times a day. This is true if we’re talking realistic, but few dungeons are designed in a realistic fashion.

The "Ostentation Display" feat should be a rule, not a feat. You'd be crazy to waste a feat on this.

A couple gems but...

2/5 —

So, trying this again as my last review disappeared when I tried to submit it.

Quickie Review: Dungeoneer's Handbook is a lesson in mediocrity from a company that tends to do better. To be fair, their Player's Companion product line does tend to be a mixed bag when it comes to quality as it seems to be where Paizo places some of their newer more experimental writers. That said, there are a few gems in this product, so if you choose to buy it, you may want to stick to the PDF.

In Depth Review:

The Good:
There were only a couple things that really stood out as great for me. "The Torchbearer" was a neat concept. A weaker Leadership feat that eventually grows up into the Leadership feat at 8th level. The companion is limited in what class they can be but has access to some neat archetypes provided in the book. While "Blazing Torchbearer" and "Sapper" are questionable to the point of being nigh useless, the other's are kind of, well, neat for a hireling to have. The ranger archetype "The Groom" protects the horses and can scout out towns to help PC's find where to get that spell or service they need. The Ranger archetype "Dungeon Rover" is basically, well, a Dungeon oriented Ranger, and a pretty solid one at that. The "Terra-Cotta Monk" is pretty solid as well, with the "Stone Grip" ability invoking some rather neat mental images of a monk crawling along the ceiling towards it's unaware target. The "Trap Breaker" alchemist pretty much does what the name implies and has the added perk of being able to convert bombs into land mines, all in exchange for the poison abilities which seems to be the perfect trade off.

The traits on the inside of the back cover are neat. Two give more unusual PC's some nice fluff while providing a fairly solid benefit. Destine For Greatness makes the use of Kits far more appealing than they might otherwise be. Lost Role Model, well, that depends on how the key feature is used. A couple of other feats stood out as neat, such as "Close Call", "Cursed Item Detection" and "Dampen Presence", they actually struck me as being the only real worthwhile feats in the book.

The Meh:
There's a lot of Meh in here. After all, this is a Dungeoneer's Guide, which means unless you're new to the hobby, it's been done, about as much as 'hero point' rules, and this book is merely Paizo's take on it. Or at least feels that way. The advise is solid, but standard, with Golarion specific dungeons mentioned in blurbs giving the book a more campaign specific feel. Feats like "Coaxing Spell" and "Arcane Trap Suppressor" were alright, but offset by either a high spell level cost or a rather situational effect. The equipment was a mixed bag that basically evens out on the 'worth-it' and 'worthless' side of things.

Most notable here, belongs to the concept of Dungeon Guides. These are journals, stories, text books, on specific dungeons that, if utilized properly, give you an edge on certain skills. It's an interesting concept, but an awkward execution. The price for the sample tomes are ridiculous, the mechanics behind it are iffy, but I could see them being very neat as a plot device far superior to the classic trope of the map found in the treasure hoard or on the dead pirates belt.

The Fugly:
"Tactical Re-positioning" seemed to do something that one could easily argue the Re-positioning Maneuver should do already. The Feat "Ostentatious Display" struck me as being useless, pointless, needlessly convoluted and a poor concept altogether. Basically you get a +1 bonus to a social skill based on what type of bling you have and what magic item slot it takes up. To give you an example, per the feat, you might get a +1 intimidation bonus for a Diamond Studded Belt, but a necklace of Skulls and Bloody Ears would give you a +1 Diplomacy bonus. Oh, and in order to benefit from it, you have to give up a magic item slot, because the bonus doesn't apply to gaudy magic items. Altogether, about as worthless as a feat can be, without taking 'Prone Shooter' from "Ultimate Combat".

The spells they offered were, well, almost insulting. There was one 4th level spell that did damage equivalent to a fireball to 1 creature, but you could have it affect more (up to a 25ft square) at the cost of damage. There was the "Create Holds" spell, which is neat in concept, but should probably be 2nd level seeing as "Spider Climb, Communal" pretty much accomplishes more, better, and at 3rd level. "Discern Value" seems like a needlessly convoluted, needlessly high level spell to replace using appraise (and poorly). "Determine Depth" is so situational is should probably be level 1 instead of 2. "Nature's Ravages" is like the reverse of "Gentle Repose" but it's a 4 Cleric/3 Witch for some strange reason.

All in all, I give this a 2.5, some neat stuff, but an ultimately forgettable product. As 2.5 isn't an option, I'm listing it as 2, because mediocrity is a sin in and of itself, or maybe I'm just a jerk.

3/5 —

A lot of the player material is very focused and exclusive, which in my mind is a bad thing. However, in this case the book does come out and say early on that it is mostly for Rangers, Rogues, and Alchemists. It has minima material for everyone else, but like I said, to be fair, the book does mention that.

The artwork is amazing, and moreso than most other books, it really seems to be designed to illistrate what the book is talking about rather than just being placed there as a halfway related nice picture.

The material is a bit monotinous, and is really questionable as a "Players Guide". A great deal of the material is either strictly for DM's/GM's, or intended for both, but more so on the GM side who has the option to use it than for player's who may never really even have the chance, (from an out-of-character point of view).

A few kits are included, a few spells, and a few feats, but they don't really come across as must haves, and in some spell cases I really wonder why they are that high level. For example, Nature's Ravages is a 4th level Cleric, 3rd Level Witch spell that essentually does the opposite of Gentle Repose, causing things to age by 1 day per 2 CL, (max of 10 days). Seems like a good 0 level spell, (unless I'm missing something), a weaker 1st level spell, but not at all worthy of 3rd or 4th level slots. Create Holds alows you to make basically a ladder on a solid rock for 1/level, and is a 4th level Druid/Wizard, 3 level Ranger spell. Stone Shape is a 3rd level Cleric/Druid, 4th level Wizard spell that allows some really similar thing, but has lot of other uses. Shouldn't Ceate Holds then be a level or 2 lower for being less useful in general, and not as open to other classes? It itself kind of seems like at best 1st level spell material.

The good. It gives a lot of good, useful ideas and suggestions for running dungeons, particularly for a DM that likes to use a lot of flavor and create their own material. It is not really setting specific. The art is really good, including some things that can be used as either hand outs or used as examples to create your own hand outs. Guidlines on making "traps" that are not traps, and just a lot of little things like that. The new NPC/hireling material is cool, but see below. I do not remember seeing any Roles, so that is amazing.

The Bad. One thing I don't like about a lot of Paizo's books about topics is that they take some of the most obvious choices in related to the subject and continue to elevate those rather than try to give options for everyone. It creates a divide rather than allowing for more inclusive games. It boosts Alchemists, Rangers, Rogues (and Wizards I guess), but doesn't offer any ways for other classes to really fit into a campaign that is dungeon exploration/survival heavy. Nothing really for the Cavalier, Cleric/Oracle, Fighter, Paladin, Monk, Sorcerer, etc. . . that brings them in line for the playstyle the book is about. Normally this would net around a 1 or 2 stars for the review, but as I've mentioned a few times, the book does say this up front, so to be fair, what it does say it will bring it does bring. The new hirelings material is very cool, but it seems that like with the Knights book, Leadership and being able to have cohorts and hirelings is usually either banned outright or otherwise not allowed, both in home games and in PFS. Needs to be more player focused, though really to be fair this probably should have been in a more DM centric line with a small player's section.

All in all, for what it is and says it does, it's a pretty good book. If your looking either for ideas to use in building a dungeon or to be able to top of your very dungeon-explory Alchemist, Ranger, or Rogue, it's probably a good buy. If you not doing those things, you should probably skip it, though the PDF is is chap enough that it's hard to complain.

Lots of options, and a good read

4/5 —

This is one of those books that may influence how you play your character in a particular situation (in a dungeon, obviously) as much as provide character building options (feats, archetypes). I enjoyed reading it, which is not always true of books with lots of useful options. I also liked the new rules for dungeon guides and torchbearer hirelings.

You can read a more extensive review on my blog Delver's Diary, where I also consider the book from the perspective of Pathfinder Society play.

A Handy Dungeoneer's Guide

5/5 —

...to go along with your Handy Haversack!

This guide provides all of a player's preparation needs regarding tomb raiding, dungeon delving and crypt breaking, as well as covering traps, treasures and monsters.

In addition to those topics, it is packed with useful tips, handy tricks, and new rules and options, such as hirelings and alchemical equipment!

This is a must have for any dungeon delver type of player!

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Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

Announced! The cover image is a mockup, and will change prior to publication.

Looks Sweet Vic
1 person marked this as a favorite.

Can we expect a Factotumumerum base class? :)
Silver Crusade
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Can we get a promise it's gonna be more Dungeonscape and less that atrocious Dungeon Survival Handbook from the dying days of 3.5?

Hey, don't give away GM sekrets to the players! :D

I hope we get some traps that really scare people. :)
Dark Archive
4 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Why why must you make things that make me want to put my games on hold till I can get them and use them?
Silver Crusade
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Interesting...
Silver Crusade
1 person marked this as a favorite.
wraithstrike wrote:
I hope we get some traps that really scare people. :)

Since it's from a player-centric line, it's probably more how to avoid scary traps...

Dark Archive
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
uriel222 wrote:
wraithstrike wrote:
I hope we get some traps that really scare people. :)
Since it's from a player-centric line, it's probably more how to avoid scary traps...

By throwing halflings and bards into the trap to set them off? :)

Sounds interesting...
Liberty's Edge

If the Animal Archive is "animal companions for everybody," here's hoping this is something similar with regard to trapfinding...

Cunning archtypes and class options for never being ambushed again really makes me wonder.
Contributor
Shisumo wrote:
If the Animal Archive is "animal companions for everybody," here's hoping this is something similar with regard to trapfinding...

We can only hope. Keeping the disarming of magical traps to characters with a specific class feature is, in my opinion, one of the few faulty mechanics that Pathfinder decided to keep from 3.5.

Silver Crusade
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Alexander Augunas wrote:
Shisumo wrote:
If the Animal Archive is "animal companions for everybody," here's hoping this is something similar with regard to trapfinding...
We can only hope. Keeping the disarming of magical traps to characters with a specific class feature is, in my opinion, one of the few faulty mechanics that Pathfinder decided to keep from 3.5.

Find trap, cast dispel magic, problem over.

Alexander Augunas wrote:
Shisumo wrote:
If the Animal Archive is "animal companions for everybody," here's hoping this is something similar with regard to trapfinding...
We can only hope. Keeping the disarming of magical traps to characters with a specific class feature is, in my opinion, one of the few faulty mechanics that Pathfinder decided to keep from 3.5.

I don't have a problem with this being restricted to characters with a specific class feature, but it would be nice to see this feature in more options. Aside from the rogue (assuming he doesn't take an archetype that loses it!) there are only two ranger archetypes that gain trapfinding (Urban Ranger and Trapper) and three bard archetypes that have other class features that allow this (Archivist's magic lore, Detective's arcane insight, and Sandman's master of deception abilities).

Edit: Additionally, I find the Detective archetype's gain ironic in this case, since the similarly themed Investigator archetype for the rogue *loses* trapfinding.

The ability to disable magic traps becomes a trait and everyone is happy :D
The Exchange
2 people marked this as a favorite.
Dark_Mistress wrote:
uriel222 wrote:
wraithstrike wrote:
I hope we get some traps that really scare people. :)
Since it's from a player-centric line, it's probably more how to avoid scary traps...
By throwing halflings and bards into the trap to set them off? :)

Back in the day, we used to buy a small flock of sheep to drive before us when we entered the dungeons. Found plenty of traps, but used to draw all sorts of hungry wandering monster.

Liberty's Edge
Derek Vande Brake wrote:
I don't have a problem with this being restricted to characters with a specific class feature, but it would be nice to see this feature in more options. Aside from the rogue (assuming he doesn't take an archetype that loses it!) there are only two ranger archetypes that gain trapfinding (Urban Ranger and Trapper) and three bard archetypes that have other class features that allow this (Archivist's magic lore, Detective's arcane insight, and Sandman's master of deception abilities).

The seeker archetype for the sorcerer and oracle classes also has a functionally-identical ability.

Shisumo wrote:
Derek Vande Brake wrote:
I don't have a problem with this being restricted to characters with a specific class feature, but it would be nice to see this feature in more options. Aside from the rogue (assuming he doesn't take an archetype that loses it!) there are only two ranger archetypes that gain trapfinding (Urban Ranger and Trapper) and three bard archetypes that have other class features that allow this (Archivist's magic lore, Detective's arcane insight, and Sandman's master of deception abilities).
The seeker archetype for the sorcerer and oracle classes also has a functionally-identical ability.

Not familiar with that one. I was getting them from the PRD. However, I did just go through Inner Sea Magic and found the Crypt Breaker, for alchemists, also gets trapfinding.

Shadow Lodge
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Pathfinder Lost Omens, Maps, Rulebook Subscriber
brock, no the other one... wrote:


Back in the day, we used to buy a small flock of sheep to drive before us when we entered the dungeons.

Nowadays our group refers to this technique as "goblins on a 10-foot pole"

Owner - House of Books and Games LLC
Gorbacz wrote:
Can we get a promise it's gonna be more Dungeonscape and less that atrocious Dungeon Survival Handbook from the dying days of 3.5?

Someone actually looked at the Dungeon Survival Guide?

I'm all for Cityscape ... just not that pointless phantom template thing, please. And no metamagic with weird types like "city damage." Might as well call it "bypass all immunities damage."

Heck, let's have more Dungeoneer's Survival Guide!

"Greaterst"?
Dark_Mistress wrote:
uriel222 wrote:
wraithstrike wrote:
I hope we get some traps that really scare people. :)
Since it's from a player-centric line, it's probably more how to avoid scary traps...
By throwing halflings and bards into the trap to set them off? :)

Hey!

Lem the Halfling wrote:
Dark_Mistress wrote:
uriel222 wrote:
wraithstrike wrote:
I hope we get some traps that really scare people. :)
Since it's from a player-centric line, it's probably more how to avoid scary traps...
By throwing halflings and bards into the trap to set them off? :)
Hey!

It works, just look at Nodwick

Contributor
Lictor Fedryn Mannorac wrote:
"Greaterst"?

D'oh. Fixed!

Paizo wrote:
stories behind the Inner Sea region's most infamous dungeons

I'm surprised no one has commented on this part, yet.

I'm hoping we might get a taste of possibly a Technic League delver? If not anything dealing with dungeon delving would be great, its a stereotype many step away from. I'm glad to see we're returning to basics, and this will aid us in our escape from many a dungeon!
Contributor

Okay! So there's still time! What do you REALLY want to see in here?
Sovereign Court
1 person marked this as a favorite.

*Flicks through PC Pearls*

A Paizo version of a lot of this stuff.
- Uses for mundane items.
- Utility spells and their uses, whether to buy scrolls or wands.
- Something about clerics being wasted as healbots.
- How to survive in certain conditions/terrains.
- 10 uses for a ten-foot poll

I think the PFSFG did well with how to overcome types of challenges. I'm of the mind that those probably shouldn't be duplicated.

I'd love to see some rules for quickly made devices players could use to help out in dungeons, and in other places. Small traps, rudimentary alarm systems, makeshift water purifiers.

Archetype for rogues for them to get Super Trapfinding, or something similar. Something other classes won't get.

And then make it easier for other classes to get trapfinding if they want. Specifically, the ability to disable magical traps. (As a trait?)

Personally, I'd love to see a bunch of player friendly trap options.
2 people marked this as a favorite.

Hmmm, upon reflection, I think I would prefer NOT to see some of the stuff Cheapy mentioned, for two reasons. First, this is in the Golarion-set Player Companion line, and second (related) is that I'm still holding out for Ultimate Skills or Ultimate Stealth or something that this would fit into. Also, Prestige Classes are almost always in the Campaign Setting line.

So. What does that leave us? Crunch-wise, feats, traits, items, and archetypes that reflect more Golarion-specific ideas. Fluffwise... I'd like to see more stuff on the Technic League myself. Perhaps some stuff on the crypts of Ustalav or Osirion. Or Geb - I'm sure breaking into crypts there has an entirely different legal ramification! :D

In fact, it would be kind of cool to look at each area and describe what kind of dungeons one would find there, and how best to generally prepare for tackling each.
Adventure Path Charter Subscriber

I'd like to see a means by which the ability to detect & disarm magical traps can be acquired in play through some means other than class or archetype. Right now, you either have to choose correctly at character creation, or multiclass. PF seems to fairly strongly discourage most multiclassing (it immediately locks out capstone abilities, limits other class abilities, etc), so it kind of sucks if you have to "dip" into rogue or some other class-and-archetype just to get one ability.

Thus, I'd like to see a trait, feat, magic item, or some other option that an alert tinkerer mid-level ranger who keeps running into strange mystic traps in pyramids could choose to become capable of dealing with them during the course of a game.

(By January, I imagine the PCs in my Legacy of Fire game may be searching for such an option. :) )
Shisumo wrote:
If the Animal Archive is "animal companions for everybody," here's hoping this is something similar with regard to trapfinding...

+1. Inquisitors REALLY deserve it.

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Alexander Augunas wrote:

If the Animal Archive is "animal companions for everybody," here's hoping this is something similar with regard to trapfinding...

Shisumo wrote:

We can only hope. Keeping the disarming of magical traps to characters with a specific class feature is, in my opinion, one of the few faulty mechanics that Pathfinder decided to keep from 3.5.

PF goes WoW...

To latch onto Derek Vande Brake's post, I'd like to see the types of traps most common to a specific area.

The most common traps in Osirion or the Mwangi Expanse are probably NOT the same as the most common traps in the River Kingdoms or Irrisen.

Another book .... yuk.
Talking about traps what i'd like would be examples of fun traps and how to play these traps in other ways than Roll perception OK Roll Disarm trap. OK... next.

Make it fun. But I believe this wouldn't be part of a companion handbook but more of a chronicles handbook.

EDIT: I hope it doesn't go the way the Dungeoners survival guide of AD&D went. This one was almost as bad as Wilderness Survival Guide.
2 people marked this as a favorite.
Alexander Augunas wrote:
Shisumo wrote:
If the Animal Archive is "animal companions for everybody," here's hoping this is something similar with regard to trapfinding...
We can only hope. Keeping the disarming of magical traps to characters with a specific class feature is, in my opinion, one of the few faulty mechanics that Pathfinder decided to keep from 3.5.

ANyone can detect and disarm standard traps.

Any magic user (with dispel magic) can disarm a magical trap as well as the rogue.

so please don't WoWerize pathfinder.
1 person marked this as a favorite.
Major Longhorn wrote:
Alexander Augunas wrote:
Shisumo wrote:
If the Animal Archive is "animal companions for everybody," here's hoping this is something similar with regard to trapfinding...
We can only hope. Keeping the disarming of magical traps to characters with a specific class feature is, in my opinion, one of the few faulty mechanics that Pathfinder decided to keep from 3.5.

ANyone can detect and disarm standard traps.

Any magic user (with dispel magic) can disarm a magical trap as well as the rogue.

so please don't WoWerize pathfinder.

This. +100 times this.

Shadow Lodge

I can't believe that people are asking for more ways to make traps even LESS effective than they already are. Any trap encounter that's even remotely within the standard CR range is going to be laughable inadequate at actually doing more than superficial damage to the party.
Silver Crusade
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Kthulhu wrote:
I can't believe that people are asking for more ways to make traps even LESS effective than they already are. Any trap encounter that's even remotely within the standard CR range is going to be laughable inadequate at actually doing more than superficial damage to the party.

Encounters of CR equal to the party are speed bumps that are supposed to force the party to blow some resources and move on.

Encounters of CR+1 are supposed to be challenging, CR+2 are supposed to be dangerous and CR+3 is wipe territory.

Say, a level 1 party bumps into a CR 4 trap that deals 4d6 damage Ref 20 in a radius - that's a TPK chance, just as it should be.

No, this ain't 1E/2E "screw you" traps. The people who like those are playing some other game, like S&W or C&C or DCCRPG.

I would like to see diferent mechanics for traps. To be sincere i find the traps in pathfinder to be pretty boring.

I would like to see traps that feels more like an encounter by themselves not just roll perception roll disable device.

Traps that needs cooperation fromseveral member of the party, traps that need more than one roll of disable device to be deated.
Contributor
RuyanVe wrote:
PF goes WoW...

I 100% fail to see the point of this statement.

Some History.

Since Classic World of Warcraft, only one class has been able to even detect, let alone disarm traps (WoW's Rogue class). Off the top of my head, I can immediately think of five classes that can do so in Pathfinder now (alchemist, bard, rogue, ninja, witch). Now, granted that the witch and bard can't gain this ability until higher level, but the option exists if one wishes to take it and that is a good thing.

Why? Well, simply put, even if there are other ways to avoid magical traps (such as the previously mentioned dispel magic), many GMs simply will not employ traps if the party does not possess Trapfinding. Ironically enough, this is actually what happened in World of Warcraft; prior to Wrath of the Lich King, only one raid employed the use of traps (that raid was Blackwing Lair, from Classic Warcraft). That means you're looking at a several year period where Disarm Traps was a useless spell in a Rogue's tool kit.

And this SAME thing happens in many people's Pathfinder games. Remember, just because it doesn't happen in YOUR game doesn't mean that it doesn't happen period, and giving more characters more options to disarm traps is only going to make GMs and module writers more comfortable employing traps in their works.

So you could say that the best way to avoid "WoW-icizing" Pathfinder is to make sure that players have more options when dealing with traps.
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some ideas:

I want to see some 'mundane' gear and low level magic items that aid in surviving a trek into a dungeon. Some in-game 'books' that could be referenced for a bonus on various skill checks(heal knowledge etc). Maybe some dungeon survival kits. Stuff that will make the players decide, if they want to add a +1 to their sword, or get some of this stuff which can help them survive.

I would like to see some more traps too, but I think that is more of a GM book material.

An option for Inquisitors to get trapfinding. Bards and Rangers already have options to get it, this is the other class that I feel could use an archtype or other option for it.

How about an article geared towards new(er) players on how/what to expect when in a dungeon, and how to increase chances of survival. Like a real world survival guide.
Alexander Augunas wrote:
Off the top of my head, I can immediately think of five classes that can do so in Pathfinder now (alchemist, bard, rogue, ninja, witch).

I missed something- how does a witch gain trapfinding? O_o

White Haired Witch archetype from one of the Tian Xia books.

If you mean this one, it doesn't grant trapfinding.
RuyanVe wrote:

PF goes WoW...

Alexander Augunas wrote:

I 100% fail to see the point of this statement.

Oh, didn't notice someone was responding to my post. My comment wasn't targeted at this book specifically.

And I deem it absolutely legit, that I argue from my pov - it's a forum after all.

You like traps in your games that are there to deal insignificant damage to the group just to serve as speedbumps? Than please make sure you have a rogue with you.

For what I've seen and experienced that's not what people like to see in their games (again: see above). If this trap now holds a clue to further the adventure or is a puzzle to be solved by skill checks in game or needs wrecking one's own brain out-of-game - much better.

While I like to see more cool things for players, I hate it when things get too blurry.
We already have feats that let's every class gain a sorc's bloodline based abilities, we will get a book which grants everybody an AC, now everybody will be able to deal with all kinds of traps. Next one's a book about how to grant healing to every martial class out there?

(Notice the exaggeration?)

I like well defined roles in a group of PCs. If every class can do the cool class-defining things of other classes the need for going on an adventure as a group is nil.

I think it's more fun to have specialists, each having their own schtick going and adding up to more than their mere sum.

TL;DR?

My take on it:

You want to try new classes and are sick of having to stick to rogue-fighter-cleric-wizard? Talk to your GM - it's her job to make the fun happen for everybody.

What I do understand is the need for Paizo to introduce new content regularly to keep their company a going concern. Only because I buy some of their books doesn't mean I have to like everything they publish.

Ruyan.

EDIT: BTW, I joined WoW in closed beta (and I'm more than happy I left 2 years ago); no preaching necessary.
Bardess wrote:
If you mean this one, it doesn't grant trapfinding.

Yea, that's the one I meant. Guess it doesn't work for them. There are a few spells that can do it, but I doubt they meant that. Perhaps they meant the Seeker Oracle / Sorcerer archetype.

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I'd love to see a GM Companion to this that has some random charts like the ones that were in the 1st ed DMG back in the day ;)
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