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I dunno -- memory of the honeymoon's a little hazy...
Insain Dragoon wrote:
She just happens to have a psychological need to fight and possibly kill, no biggie! At least she has positive channels for her needs in Golarian.
Congratulations, you've just described every murder hobo... Err, "adventurer" in every D&D game I've ever heard of. ;)
Those of you who've played a whole campaign with your party avoiding all fights wherever possible, and who've never killed anyone in an adventure path, please raise your hands?
That way I'll know to avoid those players and games so I don't fall asleep at their table.
I am thinking of pursuing the Evangelist PRC for a follower of the deity Alseta, and should my DM allow it, I'm pretty sure we can come up with the mechanical boons needed by comparison mix/match, but I'm having trouble visualizing an obedience ritual of complexity appropriate to the other rituals given. Does anyone have some suggestions for such a deific obedience ritual?
For that matter, I think it would be a good exercise of fan generated content to come up with ritual flavor for all of the "demi-deities" from Inner Sea Gods, so as to spread ideas for more than just the 20 deities that get the most TLC in golarion. :)
Sister Sunshine wrote:
First, I'm not sure what this has to do with "The Book of Dirty Tricks"?
Second, have you read the following articles?
Meet Kyra, Iconic Cleric
Sarenrae Article on Pathfinder Wiki:
Hopefully, these might inspire some more insight.
Past this, you could twist the story as Kyra would; namely, give the evil a chance to redeem ONCE, then slaughter them as irredeemable.
Absalom isn't New York, or Jerusalem, or Byzantium - it's Hong Kong! From the government structures, to the ties to an old fractured empire and current multinational ties, to the governor and ruling councils, even the orientation of the harbor ( pretty close to mirror inverse of Hong Kong aerial photos). About the only thing missing is a flotsam perimeter defense on the harbor :) and just like Absalom, everyone wants a piece of Hong Kong..
Nothing would be a perfect match of course, but there's a lot to recommend more than just a passing influence on the City at the Center of the World.
Pnakotus Detsujin wrote:
There are too many evil outsiders around golarion, and there is almost no reason such creature havent totally consumed the planet except for plot convinience.
Ignoring the "plot convenience" and "it's a literary construct so that player groups will have lots of choice of prefab evil to fight" arguments for a moment...
All the source material neglects a glaring balancing factor of the disparity you mention -- namely, the number of adventurers in the world.
Assuming we have 250,000 Pathfinder Players in our universe, that equates to give or take Sixty Thousand 4- to 5- member adventuring groups, of widely varying power levels in Golarion, most of them unaware of one anothers' presence. Now, even accounting for not all of those groups active in the same parallel world-versions of Golarion, or travelling to and from other planes and planets, that's more than enough to make up for the Celestial Disparity you note. All those Pathfinder Society games? same world. And surely of every game group out there, there are a few on the same world, and just not aware of one another as noted above.
In summary, there's plenty of reasons why the disparity really doesn't exist -- if you don't want it to.
However, as popular tradition goes, we all enjoy stories where someone displays courage in the face of overwhelming odds and still wins, even at great cost.
Also, didn't see this point above except in passing, but Paizo has a history of taking figures from Myth, Legend, and History, and making them into major figures of the setting. To me, it's more inspiring to have "Asmodeus", or "Baba Yaga", or "The Jersey Devil," or "Jack the Ripper" as a main villain than "Kibba-Bibbi the Fierce," or "Jubilex the Faceless." There's no copyright, they strike a known legendary chord with the player base, and there are THOUSANDS of years' worth in human culture to draw from.
Oh, yes - what I don't get:
Trying to "change and improve" significant others - it makes Sisyphus look like a Man with a Plan
The appeal of "Reality TV" - I understand that Schadenfreude is the main component, but its like Pro Wrestling without at least the wink and acknowledgement that its all fake...
Dads - it's more of the same crude humor of Family Guy. Seth macfarlane is, dare i say it, an acquired taste. :D
Pineapple - my theory is that, if it exists, a human has tried to eat it, shoot it, or have sex with it - or sometimes all three. Just like we figured out pineapples, coconuts, and psychedelic mushrooms, we also figured out from the Darwin Awards that eating nightshade is deadly, live crocodiles don't make good sex toys, and flinging yourself from a trebuchet is a bad idea.
Religious fundamentalism - contrary to conventional opinion, devout belief and scientific curiosity aren't mutually exclusive - otherwise, we wouldn't have Newtonian physics, genetic theory or certain key theories of electromagnetism (or we'd have had them much later than we did). It takes all kinds, and most importantly people understanding that ignorance and stubbornness is not the exclusive province of any group - idiots abound from Sea to Shining Sea. :)
Ambitious, i'll say that for you. :) why not crib from the best - Star Wars?
First AP - puts them on the run and introduced to one another when they fall into possession of an artifact that Taldor desperately wants, that could spell the end of something incredibly powerful for the empire - say, awakening a powerful beast asleep under the capital city like the tarrasque? They are chased by increasingly powerful foes in service to the god-king, until they actually find the means at say 6th level or so to enter the city and use it, unleashing Holy Hell on Taldor by damaging the seat of its power and causing the god king to be out of commission while he fights to put the genie back on the bottle (or destroy it).
Second and third AP - the god king send some of his best agents after the PCs at their home base while he regenerates from expending all that energy. Its a series of totally lopsided combats that teach the PCs the value of escape plans as they need to find and rebuild a new base. Eventually, they discover that he god king is not who he says he is - but they find an ancient tome/ Azlanti knowledge sphere / aboleth memory crystal that shows that he is an Aboleth plot to reclaim mankind as ultimate servitor. They also uncover a device (or Mythic power if you want to get crazy) that can challenge the god king or smack him down to their level to have a hope of beating him.
Final AP - they put their plan in motion only to find out that god king or the Aboleth have put their plan in motion to wipe out home base and all vestiges of resistance at the same time. Final showdown involving Angels, cthulhoid star spawn, gugs, tindalos hounds and other Lovecraftian horrors roaming the streets, while the heroes take on the god king who is about CR+4 to make the outcome a 50/50 shot win or lose.
I wonder if Razamir himself honestly thinks he is a god or if he knows he is not a god.
It's been quoted in the inner sea world guide that Razmir is searching for a sun orchid elixir for himself, because he's getting old by now (it says he took power 47 years ago, so i'm guessing he's in his 70s or 80s now) so if he has at one time believed his own BS by now, he's had a hard wake up call in the form of arthritis, sagging skin, and a prostate the size of a grapefruit. ;)
Just looking at RAW, it would seem to indicate that the AC penalty is after the attack; however from a "gleaning rules as intended" standpoint (and the way i play it) is that it and the bonus apply at the same time, just like fighting defensively.
Looking at it another way, you're effectively running at the target (covering half the distance of a run in your turn) so your defenses while charging are going to be lower, similar to the way your defenses are lower during a run action.
By definition, potion bottles are only about 2 cubic inches, so unless the faerie's only 6 inches tall, it would be like slugging a Big Gulp cup to them :)
I have a question that I've never thought about, but just realized I might have been doing this wrong for years.
Regarding the various wall spells ( wall of fire, ice, force, iron, etc.) - how should those be placed on a grid? Should they be placed on the grid lines between squares, or should they be placed IN the squares (in other words, taking up space?) The Magic chapter doesn't give clear "wall" area of effect guidance that I can find, and the individual spells dont specify thickness in most cases, only length. (giggity.) Further, googling conversations about wall spells didnt get me much either -- only discussions about how overpowered or underpowered they were.
In particular, wall of fire is the one I'm focused on, as it might come up in a future game, but I was hoping i'd just missed some clear rulings somewhere.
Thanks in advance!
EDIT: ok, cant believe i missed the part in wall of fire that mentions "casting it where a person is standing" :o but still wish there was a mention of wall placements explicitly in the magic chapter.
I don't know if it made it into pathfinder, but there was a rule in original 3E that offered a Re-roll if the attribute bonus was below a certain total. I think it was either + 4 or +6.
Either way those stats could make a perfectly playable character as shown above, but it sounds like you want something out of the game experience that the DM is unwilling to give. Only you can say if it was worth it to play with the group regardless or not.
Good luck with the revamp! My suggestions:
1) paladin for the ardent sounds like a good choice; the healing power's not the same, but keeping in mind things like wands and potions are more common by default, it shouldn't be too bad.
2) for the tiefling, going with tie fling sorcerer with the infernal pact will give you the blasting power, combined with the right flavor. He won't be as good as the warlock class is ( in pathfinder, there really isn't a pure blaster Mage class) but he will be able to do a lot of destruction with an infernal flair. Also, adamant entertainment released a pretty faithful port of the warlock to pathfinder;
Since you are the dm, you could see if this would work and tweak according and offer to the player.
*Looks at the new spell that just moved in next door*
Aw, crap. Well, there goes the neighborhood. ;)
James Jacobs wrote:
James, thanks for the clarification! I'm not one for spells that let Conjuration take Evocation's lunch money, especially where things like spell resistance are concerned, but I understand it's worth testing the waters. Just put this one gamer's vote as 100% against the trend.
Sean K Reynolds wrote:
Sean, come back! We need you, oh great O.B.M.! :)
More seriously, I do like experiments with new mechanics now and again -- it makes for more spice to the game. Not necessarily "every month", but "every year" is pretty cool -- something Paizo seems to have learned already through slowing down on new rule systems with every Adventure Path.
Do we need them? No. But then, we don't NEED more than "Fighter, Spellcaster, and Skill-person," either. But we have Monks, Clerics, Paladins, Sorcerers, etc. and they apparently aren't in question in this thread. In my opinion, it wasn't until the Advanced Player's Guide that Paizo proved that Pathfinder was more than just "tweaked D&D" -- they made it distinct enough to be their own thing at that point.
My only issue with all of the new base classes is that the Magus made the archtype Eldritch Knight next to useless.
My take on it is that the Magus made the "warrior-mage" concept viable, and which the Eldritch Knight Prestige Class started, but couldn't finish. The PRC took too long to realize the concept of an effective warrior-mage, and was too cautious in offering benefits that were commensurate with another character of equivalent level who had persevered that long.
With Magus, at least, he feels like a practitioner of sword and spell from level 1 onward in my opinion; with the EK, you wade through 6 levels of mediocrity to get to powers at 16th level that he should have had at 10th. I always wanted to like the Eldritch Knight, but it was a "too little too late" sort of thing.
I don't think there are any rules against this, but why not go with a double weapon instead of two weapons? When you spell cast (which needs one hand free) just hold the weapon in one hand (shift from wielding to just holding) and cast at no loss of actions. Heck, if a wizard can do it with a staff, you can do it with a double-bladed sword or axe. All it costs are a couple of feats maximum to be proficient with it.
Only problem is that most of these app developers aren't adding in material in a timely fashion, or aren't making them efficiently searchable. I'd pay some serious money for a full text searchable PRD from paizo or another company - at least 20 bucks or so. I own several versions of ios and android apps, as well as most of the paizo PDFs, but would love basically an offline version of the d20pfsrd that was up to date and equally searchable.
Probably the best one so far is the PFRPG rd for iPhone / iPad - but still has a few limits to its search index, and hasn't seen an update since February.
You missed the best one -- 20th level Greater Magic Fang potion. It has a version that lets you buff one natural attack at +5. So:
Alchemist with the Discovery to give claw and bite attacks to his mutagenic form
1. Drink Mutagen, gain Claw/Claw/Bite
You get +5 to attacks and damage in the same day, all from the same re-gargled potion, to your claw, claw, AND bite, for 20 hours a day.
This particular piece of cheese has been around for about a year and a half now, I believe. :)
Paizo Blog: Paizo Publishing's 10th Anniversary Retrospective—Year 0 (2002)--The Thrill of Starting Something New
1) A number of ways -- evil traders, grown somewhere nearby, etc. In fact, I'd almost prefer it NOT to have an answer -- in real life, there are some things that don't make sense on cursory examination, and it should only come up if the PCs capture and interrogate The lead Aranea or his bodyguards, anyway.
2) Reading this last night, Noburo doesn't guard the Pagoda -- the pagoda is actually about a mile from where the clearning actually is. There's a section that says that Miyaro can guide the PCs from the clearing to the Pagoda, but that she'll wait at the clearing with the caravan.
The Kami collectively guard the Pagoda, but the divine laws don't say anything about the Oni's Hobgoblin servants, only the Oni themselves. Kami are apparently funny that way, with the whole "letter of the law" kind of thing.
For another suggestion for the Linnorm Kings, I'd suggest:
The whole CD "Edda - Myths from medieval Iceland" sounds quite promising.
For me, I'd want something more indicative of the music of the actual inhabitants of the setting, rather than modern-sounding "Viking Death-Metal."
Yep, $20.00 for total bill. Nice thing is, you get the PDF also, same release day. I have to say, having the PDF as well as the print product is really, really nice, and as I plan to run this at some point next year, that helps to keep me from having to print out the PDF on my cheap printer.
Oh, and the 15% off purchases is kinda addictive. :) It alone has given me incentive to make a purchase I otherwise wouldn't have. I used to buy through amazon, but their biggest problem this whole year has been that it could be up to two months before amazon even gets the product in-stock lately -- their channel is kinda sucking.
A 2E wizard and a 3E wizard could for the most part do the same things. They used slightly different spells to do so, but assuming you took the time to convert the spells appropriately you could convert a 2E wizard to a 3E wizard and still maintain the overall capabilities. Certain specific builds wouldn't work, but overall, the class remained the same in what it did and how it did it. Same goes for the majority of classes. Going to 4E was a whole different ball game. Casters got shredded, and even the martial classes underwent significant fundamental changes to what they were designed to do and how. Conceptually, it is a completely different game because it makes completely different assumptions at very basic levels. So in this case it is possible to say objectively the feel of the game changed; it did so because the underlying assumptions changed, and with those changes, everything else followed. Going from 2E from 3E, the changes were less conceptual and more surface mechanics.
I'd have to say that 3E Wizards had similar vast changes from 2E Wizards, and subsequently 4E Wizards from them.
2E Wizards could flash-fry a kobold warren with a single 3rd level spell (33,000 cubic feet); they could flatten a foe with a conjured horse (the rule about flat surfaces wasn't in place yet);they could flatten people with walls of iron, or end a fight with walls of force or hold person (the save once or die problem).
While the base class didn't change (d4's, terrible THACO, and no armor and poor weapons), the capabilities did. With 4E wizards, the base class didn't change much (lowest tier hit points, no armor and poor weapons), but the spells are what once again made the class play very differently. The biggest difference is the removal of "Wizard as high damage blaster," which seems in my experiences at the table to be the biggest insult that 4E perpetrated on players of Wizards everywhere. The ones who do love the 4E wizard, LOVE the buffed up ability to be status-control kings of the battlefield.
Two months ago, I watched an Unbreakable Fighter/Paladin stand tall where the other three-quarters of the party fled one of the "end-bosses" in Carrion Crown. We all peed our jammies, and he made the save. He continued to stand and fight the thing until our panic faded, and in the end stood remaining with -11 hit points, single-digit con, and had managed to deliver the final blow on the thing. We had to perform major surgery (read: lesser restorations and cure wounds spells) afterwards, but the features of unbreakable allowed him to stand against a very punishing foe, and prevail.
Once again, we are both Paizo's greatest asset and its greatest detriment.
He could've called it "throatwarbler mangrove" for all I care -- if anyone who's a geek or gamer sees this positive review, and gives PF a try, then it's an awesome coup, not to the detriment of the game. They can learn the niggling tidbits later, like "what box came first," or "how Topher Kohan can't spell worth a damn."
The AP still works if they do. :)
However, part of the player's guide setup is that your PCs have a strong connection with the NPCs. Hopefully, good friends won't murder one another over power and prestige. That would never happen in real life... ;)
Just as it says... I can't decide between
or something else I haven't heard yet.
Anyone else who wants to hazard other words that defy their pronunciation skills, please feel free to add them.
Also, if there is a better consolidated thread already, please feel free to point me to it and I'll ask this one to be closed. I looked before posting, and could not find one.
Sean FitzSimon wrote:
Looks like a good start.
One comment: on your critique of "Lame", you note it would be a no-brainer for this and any mystery/revelation that boosts your speed. In the APG errata version 1.0:
just thought you'd want to know.
If Paizo never released supps detailing Epic gaming or psionic rules, would you think less of either Pathfinder, Paizo, or both? Or would your opinion be greater?
Neither. I don't do any 20+ level gaming, Psionics are nice but not a requirement, and I'll keep playing PF as long as it interests me. If Paizo keeps up the energy and keeps releasing fun products, I'll keep buying. From the future of Paizo seminars, it sounds like they're heading in directions I'll like, with the sword-and-planet type stuff on the horizon, pirate adventure paths, the minis line, and just general enthusiasm they have for making products that tabletop d20 gamers will like.
Jason Stormblade wrote:
Actually, that's BADD -- Bothered about Dungeons and Dragons.
MADD is Mothers against Drinking and Driving -- I'm not bothered my them. :D
If you and the rest of the group have been letting him cheat for 20 years, it must not be that big of a deal. If you've decided it is, why not get two or three people in the group to address it together? I just can't relate to your experience, because I wouldn't let someone cheat if I suspected it, but I wouldn't castigate them -- I'd turn it into peer pressure and let him know that cheaters are unfairly taking advantage of the chance element that everyone else there is undergoing, and they just let the whole group down when that happens.
You have to remember that (it was worded like this in 3.5, but I haven't looked it up for PF) That a creature taking a 10' x 10' space doesn't take up all 100 square feet -- that's just their "fighting area" where they can act unhindered. It's why they can squeeze into a smaller space if needed. So, that 100 sq ft pit really IS a 100 sq ft area pit -- meaning they have just as much chance to fall in as a smaller critter.
Now, not looking at the rules immediately, I'd make a different case for, say, a huge or gargantuan critter -- they really would be like stuffing a round peg into a square hole... :D
It's the little rules like that which serve little practical game purpose that bug me. ACPs to climbing and such? I can see it. But just to hamper a choice and reinforce a fighting style image? I'd rather it be by a carrot than a stick, like say a +1 shield bonus on weapon finesse if no shield or such. It's a rule I don't think I've ever seen applied by anyone in 10 years of 3.x D&D games.
Joey Virtue wrote:
Three things to consider:
1) I won't be running the AP for my group until most of it is published.
2) The Seal actually has a "backup plan" for the PCs built-in according to the AP, so Ameiko (nor any of the NPCs) is not 100% essential to the adventure's success -- nor should they be, in a well-designed adventure. If the PCs aren't the heroes, there's little point.
3) It's possible one of the PCs will be a sibling of Ameiko, due to the Player's Guide Traits.
Ergo, it would be one heck of a plot turn if, thousands of miles from home, so close to their goal, the one person they thought was essential to success dies -- only to find out that THEY are now bound by destiny to continue on so that their friend won't die in vain. And such was how a bunch of crazy stranger gaijin became the new sovereigns of Minkai... :)
Given this reason, I'm thinking about killing off Ameiko about 3/4 of the way in, just to mix things up. :)