Please Consider the Dappler. The Multiclass Base Class


Classes


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I love the new Archetype system but some others - like Dracala - expressed a desire to play a character who doesn't automatically progress with their base class. Instead of arguing over how this isn't possible in the new system...let's look at ways that it could be possible.

Dracala wrote:

Well my question is, what if I didn't want some of those features from my first class at all? What if I am Purposefully trying to opt out of those features? Do I not need a way to do that? What if the things I wanted were the Feats from the two classes more than anything else? What if I wanted to Multiclass just because I liked the Feats from the 2 classes I wanted to combine, and didn't necessarily care about the Baseline Features?

Well then I guess that I am quite out of luck because I can't replace those baseline features just the Class Feats. Then there's the question of when the Class Specific Archetypes come out, will they be able to be Multiclassed into? I'm honestly having a hard time believing they will.... And these, THESE are my biggest gripes with the new system. I'm honestly not the kind of person who min maxed and munchkinized. Heck quite a few of my builds were far from it, But they were FUN to play regardless. Nerfing Multiclassing like this takes away a Lot of why I was having fun.

Now! I agree that there were people who were abusing multiclassing, I agree that the classes are looking pretty good in comparison to the classes in 1E, carrying over a Lot of the flavor and even cannibalizing from the Hybrid Classes (looking at you Fighter & Ranger). But I don't Like playing Straight up classes, I never have.

So... Long story short, please consider a generic Base Class specifically for character types who don't want a strong Base Class.

Something along the lines of....

The Dappler
Key Ability: Any
Hit Points: 8 plus your Constitution modifier

Proficiencies
Perception: Trained.
Saving Throws Two Trained. One Expert.
Skills:Trained a number of skills equal to 5 plus your Intelligence modifier
Weapons: Trained all simple and martial weapons
Armor: Trained all armor and shields

Level 1
Ancestry
Dapple - Gain One Dedication Feat Ignore level prerequisites (must meet all others).
Initial Specialization (Select Two: HD to 10, Simple Weapon to Expert, Perception to Expert, One Saving Throw to Expert, Two Skills to Trained, Armor to Expert, Gain a Skill Feat)
Background
Initial Proficiencies

Level 2
Class Feat
Skill Feat

Level 3
General feat
Skill increase
Dapple - Gain One Dedication Feat. Ignore level prerequisites and known feat restrictions (must meet all others).

And so on and so forth. I'm imagining something a bit like 3.5's Chameleon Prestige class but without the switching on the fly bit. Anyway, this is to propose the idea not the details...so please think about it. I'm sure there are a variety of ways to solve this problem and many of them are likely superior to this.


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Did you mean the "Dabbler" maybe? (As in dabbling in different things)


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Personally I think it would be cool to buff the multiclass archetypes to the point where they include all of the class features of the core classes. Then just have people pick the entirety of their class a-la-carte via dedication feats starting at 1st level. Probably change it to allow 2 dedication feats by default and can pick more once they have 'paid off' at least one of the two open ones.

And with that, then we would definitely need a 'generic' class chassis to put these class archetypes on to.


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I think this class needs to have Charisma as its primary stat.


Scythia wrote:
Did you mean the "Dabbler" maybe? (As in dabbling in different things)

Well... Opps. That's embarrassing.


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I assumed it was intentional. The Dappler likes to keep people on their toes. If they know he's a "dabbler" up front, they'll expect a wide variety of tricks, but if he introduces himself (or herself) as _THE_ Dappler, they'll assume he's amazing at...something. While they're wracking their brain and critically failing their Society (Recall Knowledge) checks trying to figure out what that something is, he can:
1. Fascinate them with bardic music;
2. Pickpocket them with Rogue-like skill;
3. Pretend that the carpet counts as natural difficult terrain so he can count them as flat-footed with Ranger-like power;
4. Smack them with his fists or a nearby chair with a Monk or Fighter's might;
5. Charm them with magic drawn from his blood (because he's a master of Charisma, clearly) or a well-decorated tome (because he's also a genius); or
6. Smite them with Druidic lightning!

The Dappler is a man of many talents. He doesn't always play Pathfinder, but when he does, he does it well.

On a more serious note, I wish classes or multiclass feats had more built into them. When I multiclass, I often feel like my base class provides nothing more than a few +1s and a hitpoint pool, because I have so few feats left over for base class feats.

On a more relevant note, the Dappler should have class feats that allow him to temporarily gain training or greater expertise in a skill, provide stances that change the attribute governing an activity in exchange for a penalty, or allow him to break the level cap on multiclassing feats.


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Dabbler sounds like a species of duck. Maybe that's an ancestry not a class, like in Runequest. With archetypes for Daffy, Donald, Howard, Scrooge Mc and so on.


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Paizo Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Starfinder Superscriber

I was thinking of something similar, but differently restrictive as a ancestry heritage feat for a home game. Still normal base class, but the feat would allow you to ignore dedication requirements (min score and feat depth requirements) but be unable to take further feats from those dedications.


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Hmm this really makes me think of the Freelancer class from Final Fantasy D20.

(I won't link it here as i dont' remember the rules.. but a quick google would find it).

it is a pretty good way of doing it honestly.

FFD20 is based out of pathfinder btw


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The Dappler -- between that and the Chameleon class comment, now all I can think of is an adventurer in camouflaged khakis... :-)

If you had a max of three "dabbles" for the character's whole lifespan, I suppose it wouldn't be unbalanced, but once you start going above this, you start getting into territory of a character that does too many things too well, because class synergies will inevitably come out.


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Its an interesting idea, one I would go for {I was actually kinda of hoping the Bard class would end up something like this} Though as ENHenry pointed out, cross-class synergies could become to problematic later on {either making the class to powerful/ narrowing the design space out of fear making the class too power}.

Though I guess you could avoid some of that through making the dabbles into other classes straight class feats {For example, a class feat that gives you a taste of the "Sneak Attack" class feature, though at a good deal less damage then the Rogue, or another class feature which gives you a lesser version of lay on hands ect.) This way you compartmentalize the class.

Though I guess this way you may have the opposite problem of other classes multclassing into Dappler for other class abilities. Though I guess you could also avoid this by making the Dappler a class that does not have a multiclass dedication feat. {So ironically you could not dapple into dappler.)


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I only think the class should intially only be trained with simple weapons and light armor. I believe it should gain the proficiencies through the multiclass feats, otherwise the class is already a little bit martial.


Thaliak wrote:

I assumed it was intentional. The Dappler likes to keep people on their toes. If they know he's a "dabbler" up front, they'll expect a wide variety of tricks, but if he introduces himself (or herself) as _THE_ Dappler, they'll assume he's amazing at...something. While they're wracking their brain and critically failing their Society (Recall Knowledge) checks trying to figure out what that something is, he can:

1. Fascinate them with bardic music;
2. Pickpocket them with Rogue-like skill;
3. Pretend that the carpet counts as natural difficult terrain so he can count them as flat-footed with Ranger-like power;
4. Smack them with his fists or a nearby chair with a Monk or Fighter's might;
5

Interesting idea. I just have two issues:

- what would still be the advantage of playing a non-dabbler class instead of making it a dabbler?
- personally i dislike classes where i cannot imagine the name “in th world”. I can imagine Paladins, Rogues and wizards - but what is a dabbler? A classname should not just describe a mechanic imho (i know others see that different, i also dislike many archetype/prestige class things for that very reason :))


My post was meant to be humorous. I'm not actually suggesting that a class should be able to poach features from every other class. However, I imagine you could create "the dappler" presented above by playing a Half-Elf Rogue who takes the Fascinating Performance and Pickpocket skill feats, the Sorcerer Dedication and Basic Sorcerer Spellcasting class feats (to learn Charm), the Adopted general feat (to gain access to First-World Magic), and the ancestral feats Otherworldly Magic (for a wizard cantrip), First-World Magic (for a druid cantrip), and Multitalented (for Monk Dedication and therefore more powerful unarmed strikes).

Even if there were a class that could take every multiclass feat, remember that they would still be bound by action economy. Our hypothetical dabbler might know how to cast every low-level spell, but with the exception of True Strike and Shield, most spells require two actions, so he'd only be able to cast one a round. He might also know how to use every weapon ever invented, but he could only have one or two drawn at a time.

Multiclass feats also tend to grant class features much later than their parent classes. For example, someone who wants to play a Fighter with a knack for bardic music would gain Inspire Courage at Level 8 instead of Level 1, Inspire Competence at Level 6 instead of Level 2, Dirge of Doom at Level 12 instead of Level 6, and Inspire Heroics at Level 16 instead of Level 8.

As for the name, you could go with Diletante to represent someone with a casual interest in a wide variety of fields, or Prodigy, to convey the idea that the character must be unusually talented to understand the basics of so many fields. Alternately, you could come up with a more magical justification for the character's skill. Perhaps he's a Medium who borrows talents from his ancestors or an Inquisitor who draws on his god's vast knowledge to go undercover.


Ah, seems I failed critically at humor - sorry ;-)

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