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So I have a tendency to play Mystic Thuerges, I love the versatility, enjoy the challenge and am good enough that I stay pretty useful during my awkward levels that most people don't feel like they are carrying me till 8th level. As we all know, multi classing leaves a familiar stunted and malformed because it tracks with your class level, not your character level and the only way out of that is feat heavy and cumbersome. So I take a bonded object, which many see as painting a target on my back because it leaves me vulnerable to having the focus of much of my magic damaged.
I have been thinking about what makes the best and worst bonded objects and here is what I have come up with:
Worst: Quarterstaves, clubs, crossbows, wands, staves when you are low level
Workable: Rings, Amulets, staves when you are mid to high level
Best: Daggers.
Everything in the worst category is there because they are easily sundered and obvious, the stuff in the middle category is also vulnerable but much easier to keep a hold of but to me the best of all worlds would be a dagger, and heres why:
First off is material, at earliest opportunity you can get a adamantite dagger as your BO, this gives it a hardness of 20 and 3 hit points, it can then be enchanted as you get the feat in regards to your which adds a +2 to hardness and +10 hit points per bonus, adding a +1-+5 is more important than nearly any other enchantment because of its ability to make your focus sunder proof. The reason Dagger outshines clubs, crossbows and quarterstaves is because in addition to being able to be made of adamantite you can get a magical scabbard or sheath to further your objects defense. For this I recommend a scabbard of staunching or a sheath of blade stealth, actually I recommend keeping your bonded object in a sheath of blade stealth and keeping a bejeweled magic dagger on your hip in a scabbard of staunching with your arcane mark prominently on it to bait potential thieves away from your real treasure. Finally the reason a dagger wins out is the Dueling enchantment, which can only be applied to finesse ready weapons, this gives you a +2 to resist disarming and a +4 to Initiative!
One thing to keep in mind is that if you do go bonded object you officially have a spell tax as there are multiple enchantments that you should be putting on your gear as early as possible:
Arcane Mark: Of course you are going to arcane mark it, its your bonded object, just don't forget to arcane mark your other important possessions so it is not obvious what is your bonded object.
Mending: Absolutely vital to repair your Bonded Object
Alarm: This should be made permanent as soon as possible, I recommend the silent alarm.
Magic Aura: Thats not my maguffin that all my casting depends on thats just a mundane (but expertly crafted) knife! Lasts one day per level, a must have.
Arcane Lock: you want a sheath that can peace bind the dagger with a lock or binding of some kind.
Obscure object: mind numbingly circumstantial.
Certain Grip: Makes you immune to disarm, a bit circumstantial but can be handy.
Make Whole: See Mending
Resinous Skin: A defensive spell that also makes it harder for you to be disarmed, nice.
Rune of Durability: Doubles a weapons hit points, permanently.
Shrink Item: A minute or cloth bonded object is much harder to hide, get this permanent as soon as possible.
Symbol of whatever: Of course you want this, make it clear to your DM that you are warding your item not trying to create some BS conditions where the wards effects are triggered by you attacking people with the rune on the object's hitting surface. Make it permanent as soon as possible.
Permanent Image: make your shiny nifty doodad look mundane, make a mundane object look like your shiny nifty doodad.
Treasure Stitching: Circumstantial but sewing your object (and your spare blessed book) into your underwear has its benefits.
Permanency: for the alarm, symbol and shrinking
Hardening: Extra hardness means less sundering.
Instant Summons: get it back after it is stolen.
Limited wish/Wish: all sorts of get my object back/make people who try to take my object suffer goodness.
A few strategies:
First off, you don't want to fight with your bonded object, ever. Its just asking for trouble, Even if you did make a Gish Mage you want your bonded object to be a less obvious target than the blade you are wielding.
Second off, you want to keep people guessing what your actual bonded Object is, so walking around with a elaborately carved Darkwood Quarterstaff or a jeweled dagger in plain sight is generally a good idea. That way people who don't know you have a chance of trying to take the wrong item.
Third, when you can afford it, try to have a backup handy in case it is broken beyond your ability to fix it.
Edit: Supplementary magic items:
Unguent of timelessness: Cheap and it gives your item a +1 to all saves, apply it to your spellbooks as well.
Sovereign glue; Glue that ring to your finger!
Stone of alarm: not as good as a permanent alarm spell, but useful and cheaper.
Glove of storing: great way to hide your item until you need it.
Scabbard of stanching: makes you resistant to bleed damage, nice but not perfect.
Sheath of bladestealth: makes your bonded dagger invisible, one of the best things you can do for your object.
Thats my thoughts on the bonded object, what do you guys think?
I see rings are hands down the best. Don't have to take them off, hard to lose, hard to steal, not generally a target.
Weapons of any kind strike me as the worst. What if you cant bring your weapons with you somewhere (like the kings chambers).
I don't understand why you think dagger is the best. Why not just buy a dagger of dueling if that's what you want? Or take the Craft arms and armor feat.
So why can you not simply take the craft arms and armor feat and do all that with a dagger anyway? as early as 5th level?
I'd rather make my ring appear mundane and enchant it as ring of Wizadry 1-9 as I can afford it.
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So much effort - is it really worthwhile in normal play.
I'm playing a wizard who started with a quarterstaff (I agree that isn't the best option) who now after 7 or 8 levels exchanged it to a staff of fire. No - his old bonded item wasn't broken - he just upgraded to something he felt more akin to his position now.
In all that time he never had any issues with his bonded item. Maybe if your GM is out for you then it's a difference. But all this effort for a bonded item? I would guess there are more efficient ways to spent resources.
As a thought experiment - fine.
Thod
I actually go for a spiked gauntlet as my bonded object. Its got essentially the same benefits as a dagger plus it CANNOT be disarmed.
A magical ring has a Hardness of 10 and 2 hit points, and you can break it with a rock.
Meanwhile if you keep up with your dagger enchantment you have an item that can only be damaged by a weapon of equal or greater enchantment.
While I definitely see the advantage of a ring, there are many ways they have synergy with an arcane caster but at the end of the day they are easy to break, the idea here is to marry durability with benefit so as to mitigate the primary weakness of a bonded object.
As for the difficulty, for my example, a adamantite dagger of dueling you are literally talking about 35,002 gold and 64 days over 15 levels, not really that much trouble or cost and it becomes proof against nearly all attempts to destroy it.
As for covering the ring with a gauntlet, well, thats exactly the sort of thing that causes spell failure. Its possible that I could be wrong about that in the raw, but the spirit of the rules seem to point to that.
If you bind yourself to an object (or take a familiar or scribe a spellbook) you are binding your power to a material object, and it would be nuts not to do what you can to protect it and ensure it is warded from harm. I don't know about you but as soon as I can make blessed books I hide my originals somewhere safe. Even if you don't have a DM who would target your books and object (a attitude I don't understand) its the tool that I manipulate magic with, of course I'm going to take measures to ensure its safety and potency.
A magical ring has a Hardness of 10 and 2 hit points, and you can break it with a rock.
My wizard has a ring made of adamantine and magically hardened. It is stylized to appear as cheaper than it is (superficial scratches, not shiny,etc). Also I put a non-magic aura on it ASAP. Plus he never takes it off, so my magical protections generally affect it (mage armor, etc). Based on the DM I might even design it to be "cursed" in such a way as it can't be removed without a remove curse spell.
Regardless of what else I do to it the above is fairly cheap and easy while making it difficult to sunder (assuming you can even get it off me) even if you manage to figure out it's importance. If two people know something, it's not a secret. ;-)
A magical ring has a Hardness of 10 and 2 hit points, and you can break it with a rock.My wizard has a ring made of adamantine and magically hardened. It is stylized to appear as cheaper than it is (superficial scratches, not shiny,etc). Also I put a non-magic aura on it ASAP. Plus he never takes it off, so my magical protections generally affect it (mage armor, etc). Based on the DM I might even design it to be "cursed" in such a way as it can't be removed without a remove curse spell.
Regardless of what else I do to it the above is fairly cheap and easy while making it difficult to sunder (assuming you can even get it off me) even if you manage to figure out it's importance. If two people know something, it's not a secret. ;-)
Sounds really well thought out, did you go with the cost of ammunition for figuring the price of a adamantite ring?
Bonded object: Pistol
Sounds really well thought out, did you go with the cost of ammunition for figuring the price of a adamantite ring?
I just estimated than over paid. It still wasn't very much. I considered it the cost of getting it made to look the way I wanted, namely cheap looking. My reasoning was that anyone that saw it would assume it was sentimental or some such thing, but obviously not valuable.
I even enchanted a version of this with a "cursed" property similar to how a stone of weight will reappear somewhere on your person if you threw it away. That way even if it was removed it would reappear in a pocket within about ten minutes. ;-) That's a high level game though.
I see rings are hands down the best. Don't have to take them off, hard to lose, hard to steal, not generally a target.
Weapons of any kind strike me as the worst. What if you cant bring your weapons with you somewhere (like the kings chambers).
I don't understand why you think dagger is the best. Why not just buy a dagger of dueling if that's what you want? Or take the Craft arms and armor feat.
+1. Rings rule, daggers drool! Least likely to be lost or stolen, and a great thing to enchant, once you've got some levels.
Who, other than other wizards, knows about bonded objects? Some people, sure, but it's probably not common knowledge. If they do, which of your many objects is the bonded one? How do they get it from you?
If you were fighting a powerful wizard, would you walk up to him and try to take his dagger, his staff, his amulet, or his ring(s)? What if they all radiate magic?
Weapons of any kind strike me as the worst. What if you cant bring your weapons with you somewhere (like the kings chambers).
I forgot to address this point, In the middle ages everyone had a dagger, why? because it was their all purpose tool, they ate with it, they performed a vast variety of tasks with them and they defended themselves with them, They where ubiquitous. Taking a knife from someone is just something people don't do because they are tools, not "real" weapons.
It might get peace bound, but its unlikely its going to be taken, and even so its easy to conceal or slip into a sheath of blade stealth (though depending on the king's guards competence and ability that might set off more red flags.).
First off, you don't want to fight with your bonded object, ever. Its just asking for trouble, Even if you did make a Gish Mage you want your bonded object to be a less obvious target than the blade you are wielding.
If the object is an amulet or ring, it must be worn to have effect, while staves, wands, and weapons must be wielded.
Since you have to wield your bonded dagger to cast spells, and you require a free hand to cast spells with somatic components, how would you pull this off? I think it would be pretty obvious that your dagger is a bonded item if you always wield it when casting a spell.
Personally, I'm a fan of using an amulet or ring unless the character concept requires something else. An amulet can be worn under your clothing and not even seen, and a ring is small and difficult to hit or steal. The amulet is slightly more secure, being unseen. A ring is a good choice if you intend to take Craft Wondrous Item feat but not Craft Ring, since you can enchant your bonded ring without learning the feat.
Bonded object: Pistol
My issue with that is that you cannot get the dueling enchantment on it and you have better things to do than shoot a gun, so you are taking up your hand space with something thats not giving you any real benefit.
With a bonded dagger you can get a nice initiative bonus on top of the extra any spell, something you can use every waking round of every day.
Just too many potential situations where you'll want both hands free.
Bonded object: PistolMy issue with that is that you cannot get the dueling enchantment on it and you have better things to do than shoot a gun, so you are taking up your hand space with something thats not giving you any real benefit.
With a bonded dagger you can get a nice initiative bonus on top of the extra any spell, something you can use every waking round of every day.
On a mostly unrelated topic I want a mage with a gun that has all kinds of minor stuff on it to make it appear really magical. He should pull it out every battle and wave it around. He should also take superficial steps to protect it. If anyone ever takes it and attempts to turn it on the mage (Or simply steal it) they will find it unloaded, non-magical, and with the broken condition.
Just too many potential situations where you'll want both hands free.
Not really a huge issue, you just have to be able to hold your bonded object to cast so it can remain sheathed.
Just too many potential situations where you'll want both hands free.Not really a huge issue, you just have to be able to hold your bonded object to cast so it can remain sheathed.
If the object is an amulet or ring, it must be worn to have effect, while staves, wands, and weapons must be wielded.
Wielded means having it out and brandished, not just touching. If it's in its sheath it's not weilded. Same holds true for wands and staves.
Just too many potential situations where you'll want both hands free.Not really a huge issue, you just have to be able to hold your bonded object to cast so it can remain sheathed.
If the object is an amulet or ring, it must be worn to have effect, while staves, wands, and weapons must be wielded.Wielded means having it out and brandished, not just touching. If it's in its sheath it's not weilded. Same holds true for wands and staves.
Oh you are correct, I cannot believe I missed that.
Oh you are correct.
If only more people would come to that realization the world would be a happier place. ;-)
Oh you are correct.If only more people would come to that realization the world would be a happier place. ;-)
Being able to admit these things does seem to be lacking in the interwebs :P
Bonded object: Pistol
Just had a thought-
Dagger pistol, you get to enchant the dagger half to be Dueling/Allying and the gun half is not about the damage it does, its just a conduit for ray, cone, line or ranged touch spell through the gun half.
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I don't get the concept behind your concern. It sounds like you're playing a very confrontational style of game where your DM is out to get you. Seems very unappealing to me.
I feel that taking a bonded item has very little risk (after all if a melee bruiser is toe to toe with me he could probably just gak me vice breaking my focus) and love the flavor of using a wand like I'm in Hogwarts or an amulet like Dr. Strange. The ability to magically enchant your items without the feets actually make staves an inserting choice as it gives the player an excellent opportunity to custom build a Staff of Awesome exactly the way he wants it at a lower level than staves can normally be crafted.
Edit: Also I'd chat with your DM about how non-obvious your arcane bond can be. Personally I like having my bond glow brightly and channeling my SFX through it when I cast spells is fun.
I don't get the concept behind your concern. It sounds like you're playing a very confrontational style of game where your DM is out to get you. Seems very unappealing to me.
I feel that taking a bonded item has very little risk (after all if a melee bruiser is toe to toe with me he could probably just gak me vice breaking my focus) and love the flavor of using a wand like I'm in Hogwarts or an amulet like Dr. Strange. The ability to magically enchant your items without the feets actually make staves an inserting choice as it gives the player an excellent opportunity to custom build a Staff of Awesome exactly the way he wants it at a lower level than staves can normally be crafted.
Cant craft your bonded item until you would qualify for the feat. I think staves is 7 or 9
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Cant craft your bonded item until you would qualify for the feat. I think staves is 7 or 9
Fair enough. My wizard uses an amulet so that bit was unimportant when I read it the first time.
Still when you do get to that caster level 11 designing your own staff could be a lot of fun.
As a side note when you enchant your staff to +1 that makes it immune to sundering except by +2 or higher weapons which eliminates almost all monsters and the vast majority of NPCs. That can be done as early as level 5 (or 8 for the theurge).
Cant craft your bonded item until you would qualify for the feat. I think staves is 7 or 9Fair enough. My wizard uses an amulet so that bit was unimportant when I read it the first time.
Still when you do get to that caster level 11 designing your own staff could be a lot of fun.
As a side note when you enchant your staff to +1 that makes it immune to sundering except by +2 or higher weapons which eliminates almost all monsters and the vast majority of NPCs. That can be done as early as level 5 (or 8 for the theurge).
yup. for a staff you effectively get craft weapon and craft staff.
I don't get the concept behind your concern. It sounds like you're playing a very confrontational style of game where your DM is out to get you. Seems very unappealing to me.
I feel that taking a bonded item has very little risk (after all if a melee bruiser is toe to toe with me he could probably just gak me vice breaking my focus) and love the flavor of using a wand like I'm in Hogwarts or an amulet like Dr. Strange. The ability to magically enchant your items without the feets actually make staves an inserting choice as it gives the player an excellent opportunity to custom build a Staff of Awesome exactly the way he wants it at a lower level than staves can normally be crafted.
Edit: Also I'd chat with your DM about how non-obvious your arcane bond can be. Personally I like having my bond glow brightly and channeling my SFX through it when I cast spells is fun.
Its not a concern until it is.
If you had a tool that you could not not perform your career without would you not have some interest in making sure its not the best tool available? Would you not take measures to see that it stays in good repair?
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Personally, I think wands would be a decent choice. Wands run out of charges, so most enemies wouldn't expect your bonded item to be something that can "expire", and with a point or two in Sleight of Hand or Bluff, they won't be sure if you're actually casting a spell or just firing the wand at them. Especially if you can get yourself a flashy ring to wear on your spellcasting hand.
I've never actually played with a DM who would bother to try sundering a bonded item, though I was quite dismayed to hear that the "weapons must be wielded" rule explicity makes two-handed weapons useless as bonded items. So much for the quarterstaff!
Personally, I think wands would be a decent choice. Wands run out of charges, so most enemies wouldn't expect your bonded item to be something that can "expire", and with a point or two in Sleight of Hand or Bluff, they won't be sure if you're actually casting a spell or just firing the wand at them. Especially if you can get yourself a flashy ring to wear on your spellcasting hand.
I've never actually played with a DM who would bother to try sundering a bonded item, though I was quite dismayed to hear that the "weapons must be wielded" rule explicity makes two-handed weapons useless as bonded items. So much for the quarterstaff!
I think you could hold the staff in one hand and qualify as wielding it while you cast a spell.
I think you could hold the staff in one hand and qualify as wielding it while you cast a spell.Personally, I think wands would be a decent choice. Wands run out of charges, so most enemies wouldn't expect your bonded item to be something that can "expire", and with a point or two in Sleight of Hand or Bluff, they won't be sure if you're actually casting a spell or just firing the wand at them. Especially if you can get yourself a flashy ring to wear on your spellcasting hand.
I've never actually played with a DM who would bother to try sundering a bonded item, though I was quite dismayed to hear that the "weapons must be wielded" rule explicity makes two-handed weapons useless as bonded items. So much for the quarterstaff!
you can cast while wielding a staff, that has been clarified.
the problem of a wand is as follows:
"A typical wand has Armor Class 7, 5 hit points, hardness 5, and a break DC of 16."
there are ways to mitigate that, but not that many.
I don't know offhand what the DC would be for stealing a ring off a gloved hand, but it's got to be pretty high.
OK here is the argument. Ring is the best. Hands down period it is the best. First off untill enchanted the ring is a mundane (though masterwork) item, so it will not detect magic.I simply do not plan on making mine magical at all and here is why.
There is a rule that states you are limited to wearing 2 magical rings. but there is no rule that states that you cant wear 2 magical rings and your non magical bonded ring. So why would theif take that non magical when you have those 2 magical ones.
Now if you are lucky you can get a GM to decree that you can wear 2 rings only that function but one that doesnt mind Toe Rings or (if you read Book of Erotica) other places. heck I had a Half Orc with a huge Magical Giant's Ring that I used as a nose ring. If you are lucky your GM will be fine with you wearing that nonmagical ring on your toe hidden far away inside that boot away from looters.
The bonded object is a supernatural ability, without deliberate enchantment it still has supernatural powers such as its ability to repair itself when you study and the ability to recall spells, I see no reason why it would not be detectable as magic.
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I came up with bonded object as a ring, but make it out of adamantine and make it intelligent with the special power to cast magic aura on itself.
As you get even higher level you can give it the ability to fly/teleport back to you, and the ability to cast mending on itself.
For flavour my elves ring holds a fragment of the personality of his died of old age half elf wife, who was always after him to stop loosing his 'keys.'
The only valid choice for a bonded option is either a ring or amulet that you wear and you don't have to carry.
Reason being that you have to have your bonded item in your hand whenever you cast a spell. So unless you want to walk around with your dagger out at all times you don't want it to be any kind of weapon.
A staff would still be OK, but what if for some reason you have to pull something else out of your bag such as a wand or rod, now you can't cast spells with somatic components or material components because you don't have a free hand.
I thought if the item wasn't exposed they didn't have line of effect or sight and couldn't target it.
So... rings inside gloves (because I don't think anyone wears a ring outside a glove) and neckslot items inside your shirt/robe/armour and then they're fine?
I believe Aioran is correct. Also the rules on brandishing are a point of confusion for some as it supposedly states brandishing a weapon means having it at the ready to use it at moments notice by that definition holding it in a sheath and still cast. You would just need the Quick Draw feat. In fact there was a forum topic dealing with the brandishing term until it got shut down.
Also doesn't the bonded object feature state it detects as magic based on your caster level.
Also the only time I as a gm will sunder something like a bonded item I usually will damage it. I occasionally disarm them but never disarm. Though a thief stealing a bonded item would make for an interesting sidequest. Thought wise it is an interesting idea and something the character would do if he was a paranoid person.
Personally I prefer taking a ring as a bonded object with a mwk cane(club) to trick people into thinking his cane is the bonded object.
edit:
Rings are either cheep and done (subsitence, feather fall) or useless for the most part
But that's three items compared to this one. Not to mention buffs you cast yourself ignore your spell resistance and in-combat healing is generally frowned upon anyway...! (I might seriously be able to argue this if there were any good cloaks or rings)
Rings really are the least impressive items. The only ring I really like is Ring of Sustenance because as a caster that requires 8 hours of rest reducing that to two shrinks the window of opportunity to ruin your spells for the next day and gives you 6 extra hours in each day.