WR Mummy's Mask

Game Master wicked_raygun

Loot
Map of Wati
Map Chains of Silver


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Okay here are the character creation rules:

20 point buy. No Ability Scores below 5 after racial adjustment.

Average starting wealth.

1 campaign trait from the Player's Guide and another 2 of your choice. No Drawbacks.

Races approved case-by-case.

No evil alignments. That never works.

Advanced Class Guide playtest permitted with the proviso that the character be adjusted upon official release. Be sure to grab the latest version.

Humans get the language of their ethnicity as a free language.

No Third-party material. But certains feats can be approved case-by-case.

Make sure to read the Player's Guide.


BTW, the Gameplay Tab is up so you can go ahead and DOT.

@Doctor Loveless - Kitsune are not a problem.

Oh, small hiccup. Paizo won't accept my credit cards for reasons passing my understanding. I sent an email to customer support. Hopefully this will be resolved by tomorrow.

I am currently reading through the Player's Guide myself right now. It's not very big. You can blow through it in a couple of hours.

But otherwise, I'm relatively sure we'll be able to kick off in a week or so.


*glee*

Raygun, the feat from 3.5 I'm interested in is Short Haft. It wouldn't come up until around level 3, but since it has feat prerequisites I thought I'd ask now.

Edit: Also, how much does a camel cost? Some places I read 150gp, others I read that it's the same as a light horse (75gp).


According to the Ultimate Equipment guide it's 150 gp for a camel. But somone should check The People of the Sands book. Maybe they're cheaper there regionally. But otherwise we'll use the UC price.

And Krisam that feat is fine but I think there's an equivalent in PF. So you might want to keep an eye out.


I don't think there is an equivalent, but it also seems to me, though of course it's up to Ray, that one could use Catch Off Guard and treat the shaft of the polearm (or shortened polearm) as an Improvised Weapon. This is the principle that the Polearm Master seems to use.


I'd be okay with using catch off-guard that way, if Krisam wanted.


Thanks, Raygun and YR. On reading through the Player's Guide, I've decided my paladin concept doesn't quite suit the setting. Now I'm leaning more toward a catfolk fighter/ranger, assuming the race is okayed.

Gah! So many ideas, so little time to play them all... hehehe.


No problem with Catfolk. It might even have an effect on the plot. Is cat veneration a thing in Osirion?


I'm still hedging on a class, but please tell me that the Suli race is allowed.


wicked_raygun wrote:
Is cat veneration a thing in Osirion?

I'm not sure, but I think that was part of the Old Gods worship, if it existed. I don't think it exists now. At least, I'm treating it that way in my catfolk's backstory. If anyone knows otherwise, please give me a holler.


No problem with Sulis. Be silly not to include them, really, considering the setting.


wicked_raygun wrote:
No problem with Sulis. Be silly not to include them, really, considering the setting.

That's what I figured, I just wanted to make sure. Thanks. :)


Male Kitsune Swashbuckler 4
Quick Stats:
HP 32/32 (0 NL) | AC 16; T 16; FF 10 | CMD 21 | Fort +1 | Ref +8 | Will +1 | Init +6 (--2 if drained of panache) | Percept +5 (LLV) | Charmed Life 3/3 | Panache 1/3

So, it looks like we'll be needing a team name. Any thoughts? Or should we wait until our toons are somewhat stable so we know the party makeup?

I guess we'll have to noodle out some backstory crossovers, too...

(Don't take Kwin's profile literally, this is still the version from the abandoned game. I just didn't want to be posting to this game's threads with Doc.)


Hill Dwarf Fighter (Siegebreaker, Brawler) 2 AC 20/12/18 / HP : 28/28 / F +6(9) R +2(5) W +2(5) / Init. +2 / Perc. +2 / Sense Motive +2

So do we have spellcasters? Because, I'll dump the monk and go wizard if that is the case.

If I stick with the monk, I'm think of playing him as a 'Procurer' of the church of Abadar. He seeks out ruins and lost treasures so as to return the coin and goods within back into the local economy.


Male Kitsune Swashbuckler 4
Quick Stats:
HP 32/32 (0 NL) | AC 16; T 16; FF 10 | CMD 21 | Fort +1 | Ref +8 | Will +1 | Init +6 (--2 if drained of panache) | Percept +5 (LLV) | Charmed Life 3/3 | Panache 1/3

Torin, you should play what you want to play! I'm leaning Kwin towards a flamboyant Errol Flynn type, but I'm still in the conceptual stage of the build. I can keep that same flavor while nudging him towards magic (as a magus or battle oracle, for example). He won't be a primary caster, but if we have a couple of semi-arcanes or -divines (e.g. a ranger) in the group, might that cover the base well enough?

(Even if he can't cast I have an approach in mind that would allow him to potentially detect and disarm magical traps, so that's one aspect we won't have to sweat too much.)


Male Human Wizard 1, hp 8/8, AC 11, (T11/FF10), Init +6, Perc +2. F+1/R+2/W+2

Ah yes the classic response, but honestly, it's six of one, half a dozen of the other. Both Farooq and Torin would be super fun to play, so I really don't care, so I'm looking for a tie breaker here.


I'll almost certainly be rolling a Summoner. On the off chance that Raygun doesn't like my Fluff changes, I'll be going with a Bloodrager. So either way I'll be doing some casting.


So, here's Koshu with a tentative backstory, pending mixing it up with the rest of you. I can't believe there are no lion avatars. :P I plan to make him a fighter from level 4.

One question for Ray: Koshu gets 2 claw attacks. Can he use them now with a full-round action since they're primary natural weapons, or does he have to wait 'til his bab is +6? I've assumed he doesn't need Two-Weapon Fighting to use them (since they are natural weapons, again), but if that's in error please let me know.


Male Kitsune Swashbuckler 4
Quick Stats:
HP 32/32 (0 NL) | AC 16; T 16; FF 10 | CMD 21 | Fort +1 | Ref +8 | Will +1 | Init +6 (--2 if drained of panache) | Percept +5 (LLV) | Charmed Life 3/3 | Panache 1/3

Sigh. I really wish they wouldn't use the same name for different things, which happens all too often within the Pathfinder domain. This morning I discovered the class I was basing everything off of is actually 3PP versus a Paizo archetype of the same name. So it's back to the drawing board...

P.S. With Koshu being catfolk and Kwin kitsune, we should hang. Feral for the win!


Heh! I can't help but picture that scene from the beginning of Kung Fu Panda. "We should hang out." "Agreed."

Feralkind shall rule these sands!


Alright here's what I am leaning towards, pending approval.

Character Concept:
What I am thinking of doing is playing a Suli Summoner with some major refluffing of the race. Instead of playing him as a descendent of the D’jinn, what I’d like to do is play him as a D’jinn who has been imprisoned in human form - with some kind of magical iron cuffs on his wrists. The D’jinn would naturally be beings made entirely of a smokeless fire, whose body trails off to wisps. D'jinn

There would be a few telltale signs of his origins, such as constantly blazing eyes. The D’jinn are also afraid of iron, which would persist. With the Suli racials, he’d also be able to burst his arms into flame, which I’d fluff as him trying to return to his true form, despite his bonds.

As far as backstory, the D’jinn would have been imprisoned in an iron vase for a few hundred years, giving him a limited knowlege of the world and how it has changed. His freedom would have come from being tracked down over the decades by another D’jinn. Mechanically, she’d be the Eidolon, accompanying the D’jinn in search of a means to free himself.

The imprisoned D’jinn would be restless, and somewhat sorrowful / bitter, though also sarcastic. He’d be unlikely to think much of the troubles of other races, not being terribly familiar with most of them. The Eidolon on the other hand would be much more caring, and good natured, though as with most D’jinn, both will be fickle and independent.

Ideally I’d like to be able to take the Blood God Disciple Archetype (though it’s a racial for Half-Orcs, it shouldn't matter much I'd think?). I like dropping Summon Monster, which I don’t really want anyway, and I adore the idea of the pure D’jinn Eidolon being able to siphon power from the dying to temporarily give the imprisoned D’jinn the strength to use some of his old powers. Also the idea of him going into a rage whenever she is forced to depart is pretty marvelous.


Male Kitsune Swashbuckler 4
Quick Stats:
HP 32/32 (0 NL) | AC 16; T 16; FF 10 | CMD 21 | Fort +1 | Ref +8 | Will +1 | Init +6 (--2 if drained of panache) | Percept +5 (LLV) | Charmed Life 3/3 | Panache 1/3
Krisam wrote:
Heh! I can't help but picture that scene from the beginning of Kung Fu Panda.

Where do you think I got the idea? :o)


catfolk monk 1 ranger 3 HPs:28/32 - AC: 16|15|13 - For:+6 | Ref:+8 | Wil:+2 - Per:+7 (+2 fe, +8 scent, +2 desert) Init:+3 (+2 desert)
Kwin Longclaw wrote:

Where do you think I got the idea? :o)

LOL! This almost makes me wish for an entire feral band. We could be The Furious Feral.

YoricksRequiem wrote:

Alright here's what I am leaning towards, pending approval.

** awesomeness omitted **...

Wow, this has fantastic flavor! Just how old is your summoner? If approved, I'm wondering if s/he might be able to regale Koshu with tales of the glory days of catfolk. *g* Koshu would hang around just for that.

Since Koshu has been wandering about looking for artifacts like this, perhaps he helped the eidolon find your summoner? He would see such a find as the portent he's been looking for. Or would you prefer his/her background to be "secret?"


Koshu wrote:

Wow, this has fantastic flavor! Just how old is your summoner? If approved, I'm wondering if s/he might be able to regale Koshu with tales of the glory days of catfolk. *g* Koshu would hang around just for that.

Since Koshu has been wandering about looking for artifacts like this, perhaps he helped the eidolon find your summoner? He would see such a find as the portent he's been looking for. Or would you prefer his/her background to be "secret?"

Oh thanks. :)

I am thinking he'd still be somewhat young, at least by D'jinn standards. So maybe standard Elf adulthood of around 130-150 years? But there's also the entire idea of how long he was imprisoned in the urn, which can be anywhere from two hundred to a few thousand years. I definitely like the idea of spinning tales of the 'old days', it's something that I think my character would really want to do, to kind of keep the memory alive.

I believe that we're supposed to already know each other beforehand, which means it's entirely possible that you could know his history. It's something that he would generally try to keep secret, because of the fear of being controlled (there's a whole powerless angle that I want to play with). But especially if you helped the Eidolon, I think there's some trust that could exist there! I actually like the idea of him honouring you, too, as one of the great Catfolk.

I forgot to mention, but I also want to be kind of reticent about trusting humans. I have a whole D'jinn / Human "myth" as to their relations, that I want to weave into it at some point.


Male Kitsune Swashbuckler 4
Quick Stats:
HP 32/32 (0 NL) | AC 16; T 16; FF 10 | CMD 21 | Fort +1 | Ref +8 | Will +1 | Init +6 (--2 if drained of panache) | Percept +5 (LLV) | Charmed Life 3/3 | Panache 1/3
YoricksRequiem wrote:
I actually like the idea of him honouring you, too, as one of the great Catfolk.

That could lead to some great roleplay situations. I've experienced vaguely similar situations with a warforged and his maintenance man, and a gnome who feels beholden to a summoner for having dispatched his eidolon with friendly fire. Totally different (and refreshing) flavor from the norm.


catfolk monk 1 ranger 3 HPs:28/32 - AC: 16|15|13 - For:+6 | Ref:+8 | Wil:+2 - Per:+7 (+2 fe, +8 scent, +2 desert) Init:+3 (+2 desert)
Kwin Longclaw wrote:
YoricksRequiem wrote:
I actually like the idea of him honouring you, too, as one of the great Catfolk.

That could lead to some great roleplay situations. I've experienced vaguely similar situations with a warforged and his maintenance man, and a gnome who feels beholden to a summoner for having dispatched his eidolon with friendly fire. Totally different (and refreshing) flavor from the norm.

Haha, gold. Mutually Assured Respect...tion?

So a catfolk, a kitsune and two djinn walk into a necropolis...

Have you decided on Farooq or Torin, Fanguar? How goes the rebuild, Kwin?


Male Kitsune Swashbuckler 4
Quick Stats:
HP 32/32 (0 NL) | AC 16; T 16; FF 10 | CMD 21 | Fort +1 | Ref +8 | Will +1 | Init +6 (--2 if drained of panache) | Percept +5 (LLV) | Charmed Life 3/3 | Panache 1/3
Koshu wrote:
How goes the rebuild, Kwin?

Well, I need a ruling from our most honorable GM.

Since kitsune are native to Tian Xia, I thought I'd tap it for a regional trait. I found two that have the effect I want (just different flavor). Problem is, I can't find them cited in the PRD.

Mizu Ki Hikari Rebel and (the more justifiable) Quain Martial Artist both grant +1 damage on unarmed attacks. I also found the latter listed in the d20 PFSRD as "Heavy Hitter" (note the URL includes "quain-martial-artist").

Both of these are sourced from the Dragon Empires Primer (and probably the Gazeteer too) and are mentioned in numerous forum discussions, but don't seem to be represented in the PRD at all.

So, I need a command decision as to whether Kwin can be from Quain and embrace that trait, or if I need to grab something else.

Other than that it's going okay, I think. I cranked several classes through Hero Lab to see what would best support the swashbuckler vibe I want. Strangely enough, a monk seemed to work best. (Fanguar, don't let that dissuade you from running Torin; Kwin will be triple-archetyped and hardly recognizable as a monk). Being MAD it suffers a bit, but I think it'll be playable and a reasonable contributor to the group's success. Anyway, the crunchy bits are mostly done.


Kwin Longclaw wrote:
Other than that it's going okay, I think. I cranked several classes through Hero Lab to see what would best support the swashbuckler vibe I want. Strangely enough, a monk seemed to work best. (Fanguar, don't let that dissuade you from running Torin; Kwin will be triple-archetyped and hardly recognizable as a monk). Being MAD it suffers a bit, but I think it'll be playable and a reasonable contributor to the group's success. Anyway, the crunchy bits are mostly done.

You did check out the Advanced Playtest class, yeah? Just wanted to make sure you didn't forget it since Ray did say they're allowed.


Sorry about the delay, I was out today volunteering in a comic book store for Tabletop Day. And on top of that a cop crashed into me on the highway. So, yeah, busy day and I'm just able to now catch up a bit here.

---

@Kwin - You could also try out the swashbuckler class in the Advanced Class Guide playtest. The rules for swashbucklers are actually included in Hero Lab.

I'm also personally partial to the Archaeologist and Arcane Duelist bard archetypes.

And, yes, any one of those traits is acceptable. Just bear in mind that the bonuses from traits don't stack.

---

@Krisam - Natural attack rules are a pain to understand. When you get a chance, read this. It helps to refresh.

You would get both your natural attacks at the full BAB value. Even at level 1 you could attack with both claws providing it was a Full Attack. And the claws add 1.5 strength damage, as if you were using a 2-handed weapon twice.

The downside is that you don't get additional attacks because of BAB. You need feats for that.

---

@YoricksRequiem - I love the fluff and backstory and wholeheartedly approve. But I'm more than a little dubious about the Blood God Disciple part. And not because of the racial prerequisite. That I can easily handwave away.

The idea of sacrificing sentient beings for power, dying or not, is a bit morally iffy for me. And I'd rather not tread those waters. Sorry.


Loving the racial diversity so far. You guys are one Tengu away from an Aesop's Fable.


wicked_raygun wrote:
Sorry about the delay, I was out today volunteering in a comic book store for Tabletop Day. And on top of that a cop crashed into me on the highway. So, yeah, busy day and I'm just able to now catch up a bit here.

Props to you for that, but sucks about the crash - hopefully you're okay!

wicked_raygun wrote:

@YoricksRequiem - I love the fluff and backstory and wholeheartedly approve. But I'm more than a little dubious about the Blood God Disciple part. And not because of the racial prerequisite. That I can easily handwave away.

The idea of sacrificing sentient beings for power, dying or not, is a bit morally iffy for me. And I'd rather not tread those waters. Sorry.

It's definitely morally iffy, which is something that I like about it. I'm interested in the ways that different races react to these things. For instance, in another game I'm playing, I have an intelligent goblin inquisitor, whose life's mission is to make the goblins better than they are, and to prove to people that they can be more than mindless savages. But as much as he tries, he is still a goblin, and some things are in his nature. So he has the Sin Eater archetype, and will absolutely devour a fallen enemy. And it's such a great juxtaposition to play with.

In this case, it would totally be the dynamic of, yes, you can have some of your old power back, for a few minutes, but at what cost? And how do others react to that? I think it's endlessly fascinating. The idea of power would also be a huge running theme for my character, given his imprisonment.

I can totally understand your not wanting to do it, though. I wish there was another archetype that dropped the Summon Monster spells. I only really want the Eidolon, not to be a goddamn summoning machine.

Ah well. I guess that I'll try to get my crunch up on Monday. I'm excited for this!

wicked_raygun wrote:
Loving the racial diversity so far. You guys are one Tengu away from an Aesop's Fable.

If not for this character, there was an 80% chance of me applying with a Tengu. They're one of my favourite races.


I regards to a character, I'm still leaning towards the monk, but I'm a little concerned about the paucity of knowledge checks and access to healing that the current party make up would give us.


catfolk monk 1 ranger 3 HPs:28/32 - AC: 16|15|13 - For:+6 | Ref:+8 | Wil:+2 - Per:+7 (+2 fe, +8 scent, +2 desert) Init:+3 (+2 desert)
wicked_raygun wrote:


@Krisam - Natural attack rules are a pain to understand. When you get a chance, read this. It helps to refresh.

You would get both your natural attacks at the full BAB value. Even at level 1 you could attack with both claws providing it was a Full Attack. And the claws add 1.5 strength damage, as if you were using a 2-handed weapon twice.

The downside is that you don't get additional attacks because of BAB. You need feats for that.

Thanks for the link, Ray. If I'm reading this right, the multiple attack problem wouldn't matter until Koshu gained a third iterative attack, or until I wanted to give him an enhancement bonus to his claws. Then I could either take Multiattack (he still wouldn't qualify for that, I think? Pity. :( What feats were you thinking of?), or get catfolk claw blades, which might require Two Weapon Fighting to use? But which could then be enchanted, which it appears natural weapons can't be?

As far as I can tell, claw blades do the same damage as the regular claws, but make them light melee weapons, which is why I'm wondering about TWF/natural weapon enchantments.


Male Kitsune Swashbuckler 4
Quick Stats:
HP 32/32 (0 NL) | AC 16; T 16; FF 10 | CMD 21 | Fort +1 | Ref +8 | Will +1 | Init +6 (--2 if drained of panache) | Percept +5 (LLV) | Charmed Life 3/3 | Panache 1/3

GM: Sorry to hear, but better the cop crashes into you than the other way 'round. I'm aware of non-stackage, just pointing out multiples that lead to the same end.

GM & YR: Nope, didn't forget; that was part of my grouse about multiple things named the same. Started with a Swashbuckler build and it was fitting really well with my concept, then I realized it was 3PP from Adamant Entertainment. Refocused on the Paizo swashbuckler only to discover it's a rogue archetype that doesn't really take me where I want to go.

When I referenced the ACG I found yet another "swashbuckler." (Stop it. Just stop.) I steered clear of that one because it's presented as a mashup of fighter (don't see Kwin as a "fighter") and 'slinger (which felt too much like encroachment on The Scorched), plus it didn't really highlight the classic swashbuckler feel for me. And it seems unnecessarily complex and obtuse for what it does (e.g. panache and deeds, renaming Weapon Finesse simply because they can, etc.)

Also, the whole "prebuilt multiclass" thing doesn't sit well with me, though I can't put my finger on why. I've been lukewarm on the ACG from the beginning.

That said, if we won't be starting for a bit I might finish off the Monk/Duelist Kwin and then take a run at an ACG Swashbuckler version. (I mean, I want to like the playtest concepts, so I'm willing to be convinced.)

Heh, maybe I'll build the twins Kwin and Quan -- one as each class -- and run them in parallel to figure out which plays better...

YR: Love, LOVE, LOVE the goblin inquisitor concept! (There are so many "It's in my nature" [PG-13: Adult language and concepts] tropes bouncing around in my head right now...) Dancing on the edge like that leads to wonderful opportunities and can be so fulfilling. I haven't done anything nearly as intense, but there's a dash of it in many of my characters (you can probably see some of it in Doc). The Blood God Disciple thing would have been interesting to watch/experience in play.

GMF: I thought my Metal Oracle build was bad until I realized Kwin only had four skill rank points to distribute. (And "average starting wealth" for a monk is 35 GP; barely enough to buy a temple sword! Might as well go ahead and take that Vow of Poverty...)

OH... and since the ACG is all about mashups they're clearly legal, so I think I'll make Kwin's alignment Chaotic Lawful. He lives by a strict personal code, but it doesn't make sense to anyone else. ;o)


Personally, I much prefer having a weapon, since I can keep different weapons on hand for different situations. And enchanting them is much easier. Plus you'll doubtless find magic weapons you can keep as spares.

And it just feels cool to rip an enemy a new one with a flaming longsword.

The Natural Weapon Combat Style lists a bunch of feats that can help you out.

Getting natural claws enchanted permanently requires a wizard with the Permanency Spell. Of course you can also eventually cast Magic Fang yourself when the need arises. But personally I'm not thrilled with that.

And my understanding is that an Amulet of Mighty Fists will also work. But those suckers can get expensive quick.

Again, Ray, really likey swords. Ray also really likey the Lead Blades spell.


catfolk monk 1 ranger 3 HPs:28/32 - AC: 16|15|13 - For:+6 | Ref:+8 | Wil:+2 - Per:+7 (+2 fe, +8 scent, +2 desert) Init:+3 (+2 desert)

Yeah, those are pretty much the options I've considered. I just think it's cool for Koshu to be able to rip an opponent limb from limb with his claws. *g* I guess I'll invest in some claw blades later on, when I can afford them. Sadly, I'll be leaving the ranger class before I get spells, but I'll just have to live with flaming (for example) claws instead. *channels Tai Lung*


'Allo Kids!

It seems someone left the back door open a crack, and I managed to slip in through the gap. I like what I've seen of the character concepts so far.

It appears you may be short a divine caster. How fortunate that I seem to enjoy playing such folks.

My concept sketch so far is a Fetchling Oracle, using the Resurrected Campaign Trait. Of course, this assumes that a Fetchling is allowed (DM?).

My thinking is that s/he died quite suddenly (violently, even), and awoke face-to-face with a being who, in effect, said "you're not supposed to die here, not now! No, no, no! Wrong place, entirely! Idiot!" So, s/he made a deal with said being(which would work well with the Legalistic Curse I'm considering), that s/he would be sent back to "do it right this time," but that there were strict rules involved. One of which is that s/he must go to Wati. "That's where you're supposed to die!"

My initial thought is to take the Lore Mystery, so as to provide the knowledge base that seems a bit weak, as well, but I'm entirely open to other options as well.

If I go Fetchling/Legalistic, s/he'll she'll be a sharp negotiator, probably a relic hunter-type, looking to capitalize on the relic market and create (or influence) a local Fetchling Trade Enclave.

Otherwise, I'll probably go with the "distracted professor" trope. You know: "Fascinating! Did you notice that the khopesh he was using has the markings of the Terari cult? Those markings are believed to sever the souls of the enemy from their bodies - dooming them to wander the universe, forever unable to - eh? Oh, sorry. Yes, that is quite a lot of blood coming out of your belly. What? OH! Right!" Casts CLW

Either way, should be a blast!


catfolk monk 1 ranger 3 HPs:28/32 - AC: 16|15|13 - For:+6 | Ref:+8 | Wil:+2 - Per:+7 (+2 fe, +8 scent, +2 desert) Init:+3 (+2 desert)

Glad to see you here, i.jason! (i.jason rocks.)

A relic hunter who also helped YR's eidolon to find YR's summoner might work well? Contacted by the eidolon for his/her knowledge, hired Koshu as a guide, found the buried iron vase? Interesting story to tell why s/he decided not to try to sell it on the relic market... or maybe that decision isn't made yet. Tell me if I'm beating this horse too much.

Heh. What happens with the otherworldly being when s/he doesn't die in Wati? Interesting! (Then again, maybe s/he really will die in Wati. :P)


Male Kitsune Swashbuckler 4
Quick Stats:
HP 32/32 (0 NL) | AC 16; T 16; FF 10 | CMD 21 | Fort +1 | Ref +8 | Will +1 | Init +6 (--2 if drained of panache) | Percept +5 (LLV) | Charmed Life 3/3 | Panache 1/3

Well, you won't know where s/he dies until s/he's actually, you know, dead. If it was me, I'd feel no urgency in resolving that.

Welcome, i.jason.


i.jason wrote:


My concept sketch so far is a Fetchling Oracle, using the Resurrected Campaign Trait. Of course, this assumes that a Fetchling is allowed (DM?).

The Fecthling is okay. And welcome to the game.

Paizo still won't take my money. But a friend used his credit card to buy me the Mummy's Mask Book 1. Now I need to crash course the game. Hopefully we can get started by Monday, April 14th. I'll need the time to read and process the adventure, and I figure that should be enough for you guys to get your stories together.

Don't forget a group name. There are some suggestions in the Player's Guide.

I'm off to my RL Council of Thieves game.


GM Fanguar wrote:
I regards to a character, I'm still leaning towards the monk, but I'm a little concerned about the paucity of knowledge checks and access to healing that the current party make up would give us.

If you like the monk, take the monk. I can definitely help with the Knowledge and healing.

That would give us...lessee...

A Catfolk Ranger(Assuming Melee, given the expected transition to Fighter)
A Suli Sumoner (that doesn't actually summon?)
A Kitsune Tinker/Swashbuckler (Roguery and possibly magic?)
A Dwarf Monk (Archery/Roguery/Light Melee?)
A Fetchling Oracle (Knowledge/Face/Healing)

Not your typical party, to be sure, but it seems we have most of the bases covered. Should be fun!


Male Kitsune Swashbuckler 4
Quick Stats:
HP 32/32 (0 NL) | AC 16; T 16; FF 10 | CMD 21 | Fort +1 | Ref +8 | Will +1 | Init +6 (--2 if drained of panache) | Percept +5 (LLV) | Charmed Life 3/3 | Panache 1/3

Tinker was a playtest class from Kwin's prior game; it won't survive the rebuild (I haven't touched the profile yet). Expect minimal roguery beyond Disable Device and some secret dooring. Kitsune Magic was traded away for faster form shifts and it looks like I won't be using a monk base after all, so probably no magic until the tails start growing in. I think he'll be mostly face and dexter, which is something I've never run before. But, "evolve or die."

Okay, I set my prejudices aside and dug into the ACG Swashbuckler. It appears it'll do what I want, and I can deal with the bits I don't like. In mocking up a PC to compare against my monk-based swashbuckler though, I found something strange. I can't tell if it's a Hero Lab data file bug or me (and others) misinterpreting RAW.

Piranha Strike applies only to light weapons.

The rapier is not a light weapon, so I didn't expect it to support Piranha Strike. But when I enable the feat, Hero Lab applies it to the rapier just like it does to a short sword (which should work).

The one explanation I can think of for this is that ACG Swashbucklers get a Weapon Finesse equivalent. Combined with the rapier language "You can use the Weapon Finesse feat... with a rapier... even though it isn't a light weapon," I'm wondering if that implies the rapier can be treated similarly for other feats that demand light weapons (like Piranha Strike).

In my experience Paizo isn't big on doing things that way. And it's in conflict with everything I turned up on various forums. But the forums have been wrong before, so... any input? Am I correct in thinking this is a HL bug and Piranha Strike can't be used with a rapier? Or am I not being generous enough in my interpretation?

Thanks!


Kwin Longclaw wrote:

Tinker was a playtest class from Kwin's prior game; it won't survive the rebuild (I haven't touched the profile yet). Expect minimal roguery beyond Disable Device and some secret dooring. Kitsune Magic was traded away for faster form shifts and it looks like I won't be using a monk base after all, so probably no magic until the tails start growing in. I think he'll be mostly face and dexter, which is something I've never run before. But, "evolve or die."

Okay, I set my prejudices aside and dug into the ACG Swashbuckler. It appears it'll do what I want, and I can deal with the bits I don't like. In mocking up a PC to compare against my monk-based swashbuckler though, I found something strange. I can't tell if it's a Hero Lab data file bug or me (and others) misinterpreting RAW.

Piranha Strike applies only to light weapons.

The rapier is not a light weapon, so I didn't expect it to support Piranha Strike. But when I enable the feat, Hero Lab applies it to the rapier just like it does to a short sword (which should work).

The one explanation I can think of for this is that ACG Swashbucklers get a Weapon Finesse equivalent. Combined with the rapier language "You can use the Weapon Finesse feat... with a rapier... even though it isn't a light weapon," I'm wondering if that implies the rapier can be treated similarly for other feats that demand light weapons (like Piranha Strike).

In my experience Paizo isn't big on doing things that way. And it's in conflict with everything I turned up on various forums. But the forums have been wrong before, so... any input? Am I correct in thinking this is a HL bug and Piranha Strike can't be used with a rapier? Or am I not being generous enough in my interpretation?

Thanks!

RAW = Nope!

I'd suggest it might wind up being FAQ'd to say "When weilding a finessable weapon..." But for now, it shouldn't be legal. I'd guess HL did the "use common sense" thing, and assumed that since WF is a prereq, Finessable weapons could be used with PS.

I don't really see any reason to take the feat as written, other than wanting a Power Attack equivalent that doesn't require a 13 STR.


I'll allow it.

Man, I miss Celebrity Death Match. I think it'll be changed to read light or finesse as well. And if not it should be.


Male Kitsune Swashbuckler 4
Quick Stats:
HP 32/32 (0 NL) | AC 16; T 16; FF 10 | CMD 21 | Fort +1 | Ref +8 | Will +1 | Init +6 (--2 if drained of panache) | Percept +5 (LLV) | Charmed Life 3/3 | Panache 1/3
i.jason wrote:
I don't really see any reason to take the feat as written, other than wanting a Power Attack equivalent that doesn't require a 13 STR.

I think that's precisely why it exists: to be a PA equivalent for dexters.

I was fine with using a short sword and giving up the extra 5% of critical threat, and in fact only discovered this when I added a rapier to watch it change differently when I enabled the feat (big surprise, there). But if you're okay with it, I might switch to a rapier since that's a bit more flavorful.

Council of Thieves done already?


Welcome! We haven't met yet.

i.jason wrote:
A Suli Sumoner (that doesn't actually summon?)

I mean, I will, I'm just less excited about Summoning than I'd have been for basically anything else. My attraction to the Summoner is the Eidolon and the relationship between them. I'm sure being able to summon a barrage of small things is super useful, but I don't find it at all appealing. So, I'll use it, but you know, I won't be thrilled about it. Maybe I can figure out a way to make it work with the fluff that I can be happy about it.


Hill Dwarf Fighter (Siegebreaker, Brawler) 2 AC 20/12/18 / HP : 28/28 / F +6(9) R +2(5) W +2(5) / Init. +2 / Perc. +2 / Sense Motive +2
i.jason wrote:


That would give us...lessee...

A Catfolk Ranger(Assuming Melee, given the expected transition to Fighter)
A Suli Sumoner (that doesn't actually summon?)
A Kitsune Tinker/Swashbuckler (Roguery and possibly magic?)
A Dwarf Monk (Archery/Roguery/Light Melee?)
A Fetchling Oracle (Knowledge/Face/Healing)

Not your typical party, to be sure, but it seems we have most of the bases covered. Should be fun!

That's actually not too bad.

Monk it is. I'm going pick up know(religion), since it fits the character. I'll grab the trap finder campaign trait and take care of that that. I'll be melee until i can afford a bow. Monk's starting wealth pretty much assumes that you don't need to buy anything. Speaking of which...

@W_R: Is the rich parents trait in play? I would re-fluff it as Torin being financed by the church, but it does kind of mess with early game power dynamics, so I wanted to run it by you.

@i.jason: Go for the ancestors mystery over lore, still gives you all the knowledges and has a way better spell list. Also, I would consider picking up the dual cursed archetype, fortune and misfortune are amazing

re:Summoners' summoning: You can only use it when the eidolon is dismissed anyways, but it is broken good. It lasts 1min/per level and you can use it 3+CHA bonus a day. So at say 9th level you could prep for a boss battle by summoning 8-9 dire lions or whatever.


Quote:

That's actually not too bad.

Monk it is. I'm going pick up know(religion), since it fits the character. I'll grab the trap finder campaign trait and take care of that that. I'll be melee until i can afford a bow. Monk's starting wealth pretty much assumes that you don't need to buy anything. Speaking of which...

@W_R: Is the rich parents trait in play? I would re-fluff it as Torin being financed by the church, but it does kind of mess with early game power dynamics, so I wanted to run it by you.

@i.jason: Go for the ancestors mystery over lore, still gives you all the knowledges and has a way better spell list. Also, I would consider picking up the dual cursed archetype, fortune and misfortune are amazing

re:Summoners' summoning: You can only use it when the eidolon is dismissed anyways, but it is broken good. It lasts 1min/per level and you can use it 3+CHA bonus a day. So at say 9th level you could prep for a boss battle by summoning 8-9 dire lions or whatever.

I do like the ancestors Mystery, but that one really makes the character more of a secondary melee/offensive character. Lore, on the other hand, lets me use my CHA bonus on all the Knowledge skills, instead of INT. Which lets me be useful with the Know:somethings, and still be good at other stuffs, too. :-)

Edit: I also considered Dual (I have a player in my RL Kingmaker camp who uses that build extremely effectively), but it seems difficult to use in a PbP game - kind of a headache to adjudicate, I'd think, without retconning a lot.


Male Kitsune Swashbuckler 4
Quick Stats:
HP 32/32 (0 NL) | AC 16; T 16; FF 10 | CMD 21 | Fort +1 | Ref +8 | Will +1 | Init +6 (--2 if drained of panache) | Percept +5 (LLV) | Charmed Life 3/3 | Panache 1/3
Torin Ironbeard wrote:
I'll grab the trap finder campaign trait and take care of that that.

I have Trap Finder if you want to go for something else (maybe the one for spotting secret doors?) Or we can double-down and improve our chances.

I'm kitting Kwin out with a longbow. If it'll help you're welcome to use it until your finances get better. (He was going to be monk based, so I know what you're dealing with...)


Hill Dwarf Fighter (Siegebreaker, Brawler) 2 AC 20/12/18 / HP : 28/28 / F +6(9) R +2(5) W +2(5) / Init. +2 / Perc. +2 / Sense Motive +2

No need to double down, and since it seems that you're doing a DEX build, you'll end up with a higher bonus anyways. I'll find them, you can disarm them.

If I'm not buying thieve's tools, then I can afford a short bow.

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