Lem

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Rolling HP for Nameless Dude

Lev2:Cleric: 1d8 + 2 ⇒ (2) + 2 = 4
Lev3:Cleric: 1d8 + 2 ⇒ (3) + 2 = 5
Lev4:Cleric: 1d8 + 2 ⇒ (4) + 2 = 6

Reroll Level 2 (HP Used?)
Lev2:Cleric: 1d8 + 2 ⇒ (8) + 2 = 10


While I can, intellectually, understand your pain, I suspect that you'll understand if I can't *quite* empathize with it. :-)

I hope you have an amazing time!


Bards are, in my opinion, actually one of the best-built classes in 5e, and can be very easy to play. An incredibly versatile class. They CAN also suck, but they definitely don't have to.

Also, as a side note, I've been playing PbE for 15+ years. In fact, one game I'm in (with this current GM) just celebrated its 14-year anniversary a couple of weeks ago. Yeah, it's different, but everything is. You just learn to adapt (both PbE and PbP are VERY different from live table gaming, too).

I'm not the one playing the Bard, but I think we'll be OK. :-)


As an update:

Character 1 is 90% likely to be the H/E Bard of Lore (Full caster with some side healing capacity)

Character 2 is likely to be either a Fighter crossbow specialist with a Cleric (Tempest) dip, or a Cleric (Tempest) crossbow specialist with a Fighter dip.

Neither will be a primary healer, but if most/all of the PCs have a heal or two in them between each Long Rest, we should be OK.

Looking forward to it!


Hey folks!

So there's me, and a friend, who's not on the boards here (yet), so I'll let you know what we're looking at.

Quick question: It looks like you have a number of side-healers (Cleric, Paladin, Druid levels). Do you REALLY need a full healer?

And a high Deciet is one thing, how's the group's Diplo? Do we need a Face for when we're being honest?

Pending your input, we're looking at the following possibilities:

Character 1:

H/E Bard of Lore (Caster)
H/E Sorceror/Warlock (Dragon/Fire Blaster)

Character 2:

Druid - Circle of the Land (Caster/Side Healer)
Cleric (Nature) (Caster/Side Healer)
Some Kind of Arcane Caster That Isn't A Bard

But I'm not married to any of these (Character 2) options just yet. If the Sorc/Warlock option for Char 1 happens, I'm less likely to go Arcane.


Congrats to those selected! May the RNG not hate you as much as it usually does. :-)

I'm also interested in feedback, since it's been offered. Thanks!


Dragoncat wrote:

I don't think it matters who gets picked at this point...

Whoever gets in, the game is guaranteed to be interesting to follow. :)

I am 100% certain that you are correct.


OK,

Just under the wire, here's Meshach. I'll make a profile for him if selected, and finish off his gear based on party composition/need.

He might be a Champion one day, or a Guardian. He's a helper, who happens to be good at shooting people from ambush.

If I can pick Mwangi Polyglot as his bonus language, I will. If not, it'll be a standard Aasimar bonus language. Easy fix once selection is made.

Meshach

Crunch:
Male Plumekith Aasimar Slayer (Sniper) 3 CG
HP: 28
Str: 16 +3
Dex: 18 +4
Con: 13 +1
Int: 13 +1
Wis: 14 +2
Cha: 11 +0

BAB: +3
Fort:+5 Ref: +8 Will: +4 (Resistance)
Initiative: +5
AC: 18 (Armor +4, Dex +4), T:14, FF:14
Favored Class: Slayer (HP)

Racial Traits (Aasimar):
• Type: Aasimars are outsiders with the native subtype.
• Size: Aasimars are Medium creatures and thus have no bonuses or penalties due to their size.
• Base Speed: Aasimars have a base speed of 30 feet.
• Languages: Aasimars begin play speaking Common and Celestial. Aasimars with high Intelligence scores can choose from the following languages: Draconic, Dwarven, Elven, Gnome, Halfling, and Sylvan.
• Celestial Resistance: Aasimars have acid resistance 5, cold resistance 5, and electricity resistance 5.
• Darkvision: Aasimar have darkvision 60 ft. (they can see perfectly in the dark up to 60 feet.)

Garuda-Blooded (Plumekith)
Their shimmering avian features make plumekith instantly recognizable. Though they can act rashly, plumekith never shirk their duty after making a commitment.
Ancestry Garuda
• Typical Alignment CG
• Ability Modifiers +2 Dex, +2 Wis
• Alternate Skill Modifiers Acrobatics, Fly
• Alternate Spell-Like Ability Plumekith gain see invisibility as a spell-like ability.

Class Abilities:

Studied Target:
A slayer can study an opponent he can see as a move action. The slayer then gains a +1 bonus on Bluff, Knowledge, Perception, Sense Motive, and Survival checks attempted against that opponent, and a +1 bonus on weapon attack and damage rolls against it. The DCs of slayer class abilities against that opponent increase by 1. A slayer can only maintain these bonuses against one opponent at a time; these bonuses remain in effect until either the opponent is dead or the slayer studies a new target.
If a slayer deals sneak attack damage to a target, he can study that target as an immediate action, allowing him to apply his studied target bonuses against that target (including to the normal weapon damage roll).

Accuracy:
At 1st level, a sniper halves all range increment penalties when making ranged attacks with a bow, crossbow, or firearm.
This ability replaces track.

Slayer Talents:
As a slayer gains experience, he learns a number of talents that aid him and confound his foes. Starting at 2nd level and every 2 levels thereafter, a slayer gains one slayer talent. Unless otherwise noted, a slayer cannot select an individual talent more than once.

*Rogue Talent – Sniper’s Eye:
Benefit: A rogue with this talent can apply her sneak attack damage on ranged attacks targeting foes within 30 feet that benefit from concealment. Foes with total concealment are still immune.

Deadly Range:
At 2nd level, when the sniper makes an attack against a target who is within his weapon's first range increment and completely unaware of his presence, that attack ignores the 30 foot range limit on ranged sneak attacks, and if it is a sneak attack, he adds his sniper level as a bonus on his sneak attack damage roll. After this first attack, the target is aware of the sniper's presence.

Sneak Attack:
At 3rd level, if a slayer catches an opponent unable to defend itself effectively from his attack, he can strike a vital spot for extra damage. The slayer's attack deals extra damage anytime his target would be denied a Dexterity bonus to AC (whether the target actually has a Dexterity bonus or not), or when the slayer flanks his target. This additional damage is 1d6 at 3rd level, and increases by 1d6 every 3 levels thereafter. Should the slayer score acritical hit with a sneak attack, this additional damage is not multiplied. Ranged attacks can count as sneak attacks only if the target is within 30 feet.

With a weapon that deals nonlethal damage (like a sap, whip, or unarmed strike), a slayer can make a sneak attack that deals nonlethal damageinstead of lethal damage. He cannot use a weapon that deals lethal damage to deal nonlethal damage in a sneak attack, not even with the usual –4 penalty.

The slayer must be able to see the target well enough to pick out a vital spot and must be able to reach such a spot. A slayer cannot use sneak attack while striking a creature with concealment.

Slayer's class skills are Acrobatics (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Disguise (Cha), Heal (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge(dungeoneering) (Int), Knowledge (geography) (Int), Knowledge (local) (Int), Perception (Wis), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Sense Motive (Wis), Stealth(Dex), Survival (Wis), and Swim (Str).

Skills:
Acrobatics: +12 (3 ranks)
*Craft: Bows: +7 (3 Ranks)
Climb: +9 (3 Ranks)
Fly: +9 (3 Ranks, Cross-Class)
*Knowledge: Geography: +7 (3 Ranks)
Perception: +8 (3 Ranks)
Ride: +10 (3 Ranks)
Stealth: +10 (3 Ranks)
Survival: +8 (3 Ranks)
*Background Skills

Feats:
Point-Blank Shot (Level 1)
Precise Shot (Level 3)

Traits:
Ambush Training
You've learned that taking an enemy by surprise can end a combat before it begins.
Benefit: You gain a +1 trait bonus on initiative checks and a +1 trait bonus on weapon damage rolls during any surprise round in which you act.

Toxophilite (Aasimar)
You've inherited some of your celestial ancestor's prowess with the bow.
Benefit: You gain a +2 trait bonus on attack rolls made to confirm critical hits with bows.

Equipment (Will Update based on Party):
Composite Longbow (+3 STR) – 400gp
Chain Shirt - 100gp
1500gp Remaining

History:
Meshach was born to moderately wealthy Vudrani parents on the island of Jalmeray. He lived a normal life, mostly, competing with other children in games and contests of strength and speed and will, especially while visiting the local temple of Irori. Meschach won a lot of these competitions, often without having to really exert himself. Sadly, Meshach wasn’t always the most gracious of winners, and his tendency to gloat didn’t win him an excessive number of friends.

In an effort to teach him some humility, Meshach’s parents sent him to train with the Irori monks. Suddenly, the challenges of strength and skill weren’t nearly as easy. Meshach still didn’t lose much, and when he did, he merely worked harder, until he found a way to defeat the challenges he’d failed at. He didn’t get to brag much, however, as any time he successfully completed a challenge, the monks just gave him another, more difficult challenge to face. The monks pushed him and pushed him, for a number of years. Meshach loved the challenge, and the growth. What he did not love was the fisticuffs. Even with his physical gifts, Meschach never really got the hang of the hand-to-hand fighting styles the monks taught. He could win in sparring matches, but never with much style or quality of form. Instead, he just hit faster and harder than the other kids, while ducking their return blows.

Then, around his fifteenth birthday, Meshach just… stopped growing. Where the other boys started getting bigger and stronger, Meshach didn’t. In a few short months, his physical advantages were lost, and the boys he’d been able to beat with ease suddenly found themselves looking down on Meshach – literally.

It was roughly a year later that the transformation happened. Meshach’s blue-black hair – always light and feathery before – turned into actual feathers. His light brown eyes faded in color, and became golden, like those of an eagle. Always “different,” Meshach had now become “other.” His classmates did not take this change well, and neither did Meshach.

It was one of the monks who figured it out. Meshach wasn’t fully human. As it turned out, his ancestry included a history of close relationships with the guardian spirits, known as Garuda.

Apparently, the relationships were closer than even the stories had told, because Meshach had the blood of celestials in his veins.
With this new discovery, Meshach was removed from the monk training program, and put into a special apprenticeship with one of the oldest monks in the temple.

Brother Wind, so old that he could barely walk any more, was nevertheless the greatest archer in the history of the brotherhood. He was also the last member of the brotherhood to have ever seen (and apparently out-shot) a Garuda.

Meshach spent forty years at Brother Wind’s feet, learning how to use a bow, how to make them, how to carve and fletch arrows (using his own feathers), and how to make a bow part of himself. To anticipate the winds, the movement of a target, to make an arrow travel as a thought.

By the time Brother Wind moved on to the next phase of his existence, Meshach had reached his maturity, grown into his frame, and gained some basic level of competency with a bow and arrow. With Brother Wind gone, it was time for Meshach to walk the world, and find his own challenges.

So he did, leaving Jalmeray to explore the world, with little but his self-made bow and arrows in hand, and the teachings of Irori in his heart. Meshach spent time in the Mwangi Expanse, testing himself against the jungle, hunting for food, learning to climb and hide amongst the trees and vines. He spent five years in the jungle, testing himself, improving his skills, growing. Until the Shadowfall, and then the serpentfolk began to rise.

At that point, the games stopped, and the challenges became more serious – and with more serious consequences. While Meshach did a good job of hunting and ambushing serpentfolk, he did so originally with the same mindset that he had always held – that of challenging himself, taking on tasks because they were difficult, killing enemies who were powerful – and of letting others know what he had done (because what was the point of winning, if no one knew the score?).

Unfortunately, his lack of discretion led to reprisals, and the deaths of friends. Eventually, Meshach could not stay in the Expanse. His presence was a danger, and caused more harm to the cause than good. Heartbroken and frustrated, he returned home to Jalmeray.

His reputation had preceded him, and Meshach found a cold welcome on the island. With all of the troubles in the world, the island nation had tightened its borders, and wasn’t looking to welcome trouble or trouble makers. Meshach very quickly found that he was sought out by a very small minority of Jalmerans – those who felt that they should do something about what was going on in the world, rather than hiding from it. Many of these folks hired themselves out as mercenaries in troubled lands, or set out as small groups of adventurers, seeking to make a difference in lands where hope seemed fragile. They saw Meshach as an example of what could be done – after all, hadn’t he been a thorn in the side of the serpentfolk for more than a year? Hadn’t he done enough damage that the enemy had raised entire villages to get to him? For those who hated what they saw happening on the mainland, the temptation to be difference makers was strong.

Meshach resisted this temptation. He had seen what happened when even a skilled warrior like himself tried to make a difference in such places. Good people died. Villages were destroyed, as retaliation for the action of “heroes.”

For almost two years, he held out, staying in his parents’ home, doing his best not to hear the stories of what went on outside, in the world.

But then, the broken “heroes” started coming home. Those who had gone out to do something, who had done things, came back. Some missing limbs, or eyes, or hope – casualties of the rising darkness. They told heartbreaking stories of victories that had been snatched away from them for lack of one or two more good people willing to do the right thing. Of betrayals by people who had been terrorised or beaten into submission. Of small bastions of hope, overrun and snuffed out like candles before a bore tide of black water.

Meshach realized that it didn’t matter. If he stayed on this island, good people would die anyway – and he would rot away in fear and inaction. And that was not how he was fated to die. His blood, his ancestors would not stand for him to die in quiet, fearful obscurity, doing nothing.

There was word in the latest stories – word that an evil had risen that was so great that even the dark forces in the world had taken pause, and would unite to fight it. Word that, in the city of Absalom, great warriors would band together, take a stand, make a difference.

Word was, even that wouldn’t be enough.

Maybe it would not, who was Meshach to say? How was he to know? What he did know was that he would be there, doing his best to make that difference. And if it was a doomed endeavor, so be it. Meshach would die doing something, facing the greatest challenge of his life, rather than hiding from it.

As the ship left Jalmeray for Absalom, Meshach’s eyes stared forward in anticipation. He did not look back.


Questions:

1. What does your character look like? (Height, weight, age, appearance, etc.)

Meshach is just a hair under six feet tall, with wiry muscle on a thin frame. Dusky of skin, with golden eyes that remind one of a bird of prey, his long, windblown hair is blue-black, and feather-light. Looking closer, one would almost swear that his hair was actually made of feathers.

2. What is your character’s personality?
Meshach is intense, and very present in every moment. There is a sadness in him, and a determination, though he does not seem interested in talking about the past, or brooding about the future. He is determined to do good, in some way, for the persons he encounters. He strives to improve himself always, but without being dissatisfied in who he is.
He’s a very intense Taoist, in many ways.

3. Where is your character from? Golarion has changed a lot in the last few years. Where you are from can mean a lot about who your character is.
Meshach is from Jalmeray, but has spent several years in the jungles of Mwangi, hunting Serpentfolk.

4. Why does your character have the class, feats, weapon, etc. that they do? Where and how did they learn to fight? What made them take up this path?
That’s covered in the background story, I think. He started in just trying to be the best he could be at the things he was already good at, taking joy in besting any challenge (or challenger). Then he began fighting in earnest, and seeing the consequences of failing in a challenge, or of being too bold in his successes. He’s been humbled, but still knows that his skills and abilities are special, and intends to use them to make a positive difference.

5. Is your character religious? If so, who do they worship and why?
He is, though a bit more out of rote habit and training than a deeply-examined belief – though that may be changing a bit. He was raised and trained by monks of Irori.

6. How has your character's life changed in the last few years? What has the changing world done to your character and what do you intend to do about it?
See #4, above. He’s been bitter, and now he’s tired of that. He’s a big believer that the most important person is the one in front of you right now, the most important thing is the thing that you are doing, and the most important place to be is where you are right now – because you don’t know that you’ll ever see another person, do another thing, or be any other place, and so the only moment that you have in which to make a difference is this one. So he is present in every moment, hoping for better things to come, while enjoying the things that are now.
He plans to do the best he can to make a difference, somehow.


I give. :-)

No fighting from me. I don't wanna miss Wally World!


Rynjin wrote:


See how much nicer that sounds without the "You're not a real roleplayer" context?

I still heavily disagree with both your starting premise (That nobody here but you understands that, shock of all shocks, unoptimized characters can be fun) nor the conclusion (That you're depriving yourself of fun by playing a character for, as Johnnycat points out, a significant period of time that will be marginally useful at best for that whole period...why would you not go with a character concept that is both more fun mechanically and grabs you as much flavor-wise?).

In Akash's case, using a club or crossbow as you suggested in the deleted post takes a lot away from the character, mechanically and not. He's a whip using sadist slavemaster, the whip image is very much a part of the concept. I suppose I could shank people with a dagger or something which looks pretty good too, but...

Mechanically, an Unchained Rogue has to choose a single weapon for his Finesse Training, so I'd be swinging a dagger for a flat 1d4 from levels 3-6...which may as well not be contributing in combat since enemies are going to have vastly larger numbers of HP. Keep in mind most CR 2 (that is creatures we'd be fighting in packs from the get-go, and Akash would be expected to be able to take on ALONE) creatures have roughly 20 HP. It's like attacking a man with a toothpick. Maybe you'll get lucky and nick an artery somehow, but he's probably going to kill you first. Which doesn't really make Akash look like a guy who should be along for the ride. This is a mission to save the world, why would you bring the wimp?

Even worse would be thinking he could just take Finesse Training in some other weapon, since the entire Prestige Class his build is based around getting into uses whips. Almost all of the abilities require using a whip to function, so that's non-negotiable.

And why not drop the PrC? Because I have dropped it EVERY SINGLE TIME I've wanted to use it up until now for various reasons, and I think waiting 3 years to try it out is long enough, don't you?

Rather than inflame the sarcasm and condescension, I'll just point out that I never said/claimed to be the only person who has fun with sub-optimized characters. Also, my conclusion wasn't that such a character is "marginally useful at best," in fact, I was disagreeing with that premise entirely.

I actually like Akash, in either version of the build. Keeping in mind that the DM has ruled that he gets Scorpion Whips, this is a moot point, but even if he didn't, Akash wouldn't "marginally useful at best," unless your only measure of usefulness is damage per round, caused solely by your character (remember that CR is calculated based on a foe's/trap's danger to a PARTY of characters).

What are the primary advantages of whips? Reach, and Combat Maneuver flexibility - not damage. With a whip, you can perform Trip and Disarm attacks at a range that prevents AoOs, at a statistically significant bonus, and without the risk of being tripped yourself if you fail the roll.

Against CR2 opponents, you have the ability to remove their primary damage source, knock them prone, and/or knock them unconscious with non-lethal damage (and for a Sadist, that last part may be the single greatest advantage of using a whip...because now I get to tie up my unconscious enemy, and watch them suffer as I play with them in a controlled environment once I wake them up, and bring out my badass, scary-looking dagger, etc.).

But let's look at the disarm/trip abilities.

Disarm gives you a +2 bonus to the disarm attempt, and, again, performed at Reach, avoids an AoO. Now that CR2 enemy is significantly less effective, and far more at the mercy of your companions (who probably do have more damaging weapons to use). It also provides that psychological edge for a Sadist, as I see my opponent's eyes widen with fear, now that they're feeling far less competent and their weapon is at my feet.

Trip, again at Reach (no AoO), lets you put that opponent on the floor, where you can 5' step up switch weapons, and get all stabby (or smashy, or slashy) on a -4AC, and get an AoO when the opponent stands up. Or you can just leave him prone at the feet of your fellow party member who has a big, damage-dealing weapon of her own that becomes much more effective against that -4AC, and *they* get the free attack when the opponent tries to stand up. And, once again, the Sadist part of you gets to enjoy the opponent's predicament and fear. There's no bonus to Trip, like you get with Disarm, but you *can* use your enhancement bonuses (coming at level 4) and any Feat bonuses (like Weapon Focus, or Finesse...), so there is an advantage over using non-Trip weapons. And, if you fail miserably, you can just drop the whip, and pull out your backup (because who doesn't carry two whips, right?).

The other thing folks forget about the Trip property is that it includes the Reposition and Drag maneuvers, as well. Which lets you pull your enemy into positions where you can then switch weapons and 5' into a flanking position, which means that scary dagger (or mace, or whatever) suddenly is a lot more dangerous that that straight 1d4. Or, again, you can just put them in a position where your buddies can go to town on them (or line them up for a bull-rush over a cliff-face, for example, perhaps after disarming them, so that your bull-rushing party member doesn't provoke an AoO...).

I really like the possibilities for a character like Akash. My point is that straight damage-dealing potential is not the only way to measure effectiveness, or fun-having.

And yes, I think 3 years is long enough to wait for such fun and shenanigans, so I hope Akash gets in - you'll have a blast with him, I'm sure (I would!).


Rynjin wrote:
That's an impressive wall of bait you built there, matey. Unfortunately you recycled every scrap of it from every forum troll that I've ever seen on these boards, so I can only give it a 5/10. Try harder next time.

Wow.

Since I'm actually not trolling, I deleted the post.

But my point stands, which is this: It actually can be fun to play non-optimized characters, or optimized characters through their non-optimized levels, and quitting a game because you think you might have to play through some of those non-optimized levels and that doing so isn't any fun is just depriving yourself of what can be some of the most fun times available at a gaming table.

My apologies for phrasing that in a way that was so easily interpreted as trolling... and "recycled" trolling, at that. Ouch!


OOPS! @Faceless:

Just went back and saw your answer to the earlier question about Jalmeray. That would actually still work with my character concept - provided that you'll allow a Plumekith Aasimar?


COuple of quick questions for Faceless:

1) Is a Plumekith variant Aasimar acceptable?

2) I don't see Jalmeray listed in any of your collections of doomed nations. It's closest to the "Domain of Fire," physically speaking, but its island status might keep it free of that particular challenge - at least for now.

What I'm thinking of is a Plumekith Slayer (Sniper Archetype) from Jalmeray. My thinking on Jalmeray, unless you've got it described somewhere else, is that it's become kind of a refugee state. As a (former?) center of trade, located close to, but far enough away from several troubled areas, it's become something of a "neutral ground" that folks have been fleeing to. The Irori temples have been swamped with refugees and supplicants (which has given them the ability to massively ramp up the message that "you see what happens when you depend upon gods and external powers to save you? Focus on becoming your perfect self - only then can you resist the outside forces..." - or something like that).

This character has spent a good portion of the last three years trying to help (off-island), by traveling to troubled areas and killing folks what need killing (Coincidentally, this has also provided opportunities to test him/herself and his/her abilities). Unfortunately, this has also made more than a few enemies, and forced the character to move around a lot, to avoid those enemies.

Now, s/he has headed to Absalom to see if s/he can be of help in a more coordinated venture (and hopes s/he can avoid running into too many folks with objections to those previous activities...).


Late to the party, I know, but this looks interesting...

4d6 ⇒ (6, 6, 4, 2) = 18 16
4d6 ⇒ (5, 4, 2, 3) = 14 12
4d6 ⇒ (6, 1, 6, 1) = 14 13
4d6 ⇒ (6, 1, 4, 6) = 17 16
4d6 ⇒ (3, 2, 6, 1) = 12 11
4d6 ⇒ (5, 6, 2, 1) = 14 13

Hmm... Lots of odd numbers, but 29 points on my first try, and a "dump" of 11. Not too shabby.

I'll go play with races and classes and whatnot now. Try for something we're missing. I don't have a ton of experience with Mythic play, but should be fun.

Watch this space... character to come. (Darn you, Kris!)


On second thought, not enough time to commit to another game with a daily posting requirement.

My apologies. Withdrawing.


Interested. Dotting. Will try to get a character up this weekend.


Kevkas the Battle Oracle wrote:
Innocent of Yûlash wrote:
I would LOL to the ends of the earth if this were secretly a Spelljammer game and Locke pulls a bait 'n switch on us. :)

I would be sooo happy if this turned into Expedition to Barrier Peaks and ended up with us on a spelljammer flying up into Realmspace. :)

Before I started playing Pathfinder APs I liked to do that to my players, like dumping an Eberron Red Hand of Doom party into the Mists to end up in the beginning of Expedition to Castle Ravenloft. Warforged vs zombies and werewolves; fun stuff.

I have *no idea* what you're talking about....

*ahem* Whistles, innocently...


Dot.

Cleric or Warpriest coming soon.

Heathens! Prepare for the smiting! :-)


Dot dot dot.

(What the hell does that mean, anyway?)


I woulda gone rogue. Just sayin'. :-)


It's a cool-looking campaign, but I'm finding myself in the same position as leinathan. Just a little too much going on. Incredibly tempting, and thanks very much for the invite, but I'm gonna have to pass this time. Sorry.


Quote:

That's actually not too bad.

Monk it is. I'm going pick up know(religion), since it fits the character. I'll grab the trap finder campaign trait and take care of that that. I'll be melee until i can afford a bow. Monk's starting wealth pretty much assumes that you don't need to buy anything. Speaking of which...

@W_R: Is the rich parents trait in play? I would re-fluff it as Torin being financed by the church, but it does kind of mess with early game power dynamics, so I wanted to run it by you.

@i.jason: Go for the ancestors mystery over lore, still gives you all the knowledges and has a way better spell list. Also, I would consider picking up the dual cursed archetype, fortune and misfortune are amazing

re:Summoners' summoning: You can only use it when the eidolon is dismissed anyways, but it is broken good. It lasts 1min/per level and you can use it 3+CHA bonus a day. So at say 9th level you could prep for a boss battle by summoning 8-9 dire lions or whatever.

I do like the ancestors Mystery, but that one really makes the character more of a secondary melee/offensive character. Lore, on the other hand, lets me use my CHA bonus on all the Knowledge skills, instead of INT. Which lets me be useful with the Know:somethings, and still be good at other stuffs, too. :-)

Edit: I also considered Dual (I have a player in my RL Kingmaker camp who uses that build extremely effectively), but it seems difficult to use in a PbP game - kind of a headache to adjudicate, I'd think, without retconning a lot.


Kwin Longclaw wrote:

Tinker was a playtest class from Kwin's prior game; it won't survive the rebuild (I haven't touched the profile yet). Expect minimal roguery beyond Disable Device and some secret dooring. Kitsune Magic was traded away for faster form shifts and it looks like I won't be using a monk base after all, so probably no magic until the tails start growing in. I think he'll be mostly face and dexter, which is something I've never run before. But, "evolve or die."

Okay, I set my prejudices aside and dug into the ACG Swashbuckler. It appears it'll do what I want, and I can deal with the bits I don't like. In mocking up a PC to compare against my monk-based swashbuckler though, I found something strange. I can't tell if it's a Hero Lab data file bug or me (and others) misinterpreting RAW.

Piranha Strike applies only to light weapons.

The rapier is not a light weapon, so I didn't expect it to support Piranha Strike. But when I enable the feat, Hero Lab applies it to the rapier just like it does to a short sword (which should work).

The one explanation I can think of for this is that ACG Swashbucklers get a Weapon Finesse equivalent. Combined with the rapier language "You can use the Weapon Finesse feat... with a rapier... even though it isn't a light weapon," I'm wondering if that implies the rapier can be treated similarly for other feats that demand light weapons (like Piranha Strike).

In my experience Paizo isn't big on doing things that way. And it's in conflict with everything I turned up on various forums. But the forums have been wrong before, so... any input? Am I correct in thinking this is a HL bug and Piranha Strike can't be used with a rapier? Or am I not being generous enough in my interpretation?

Thanks!

RAW = Nope!

I'd suggest it might wind up being FAQ'd to say "When weilding a finessable weapon..." But for now, it shouldn't be legal. I'd guess HL did the "use common sense" thing, and assumed that since WF is a prereq, Finessable weapons could be used with PS.

I don't really see any reason to take the feat as written, other than wanting a Power Attack equivalent that doesn't require a 13 STR.


GM Fanguar wrote:
I regards to a character, I'm still leaning towards the monk, but I'm a little concerned about the paucity of knowledge checks and access to healing that the current party make up would give us.

If you like the monk, take the monk. I can definitely help with the Knowledge and healing.

That would give us...lessee...

A Catfolk Ranger(Assuming Melee, given the expected transition to Fighter)
A Suli Sumoner (that doesn't actually summon?)
A Kitsune Tinker/Swashbuckler (Roguery and possibly magic?)
A Dwarf Monk (Archery/Roguery/Light Melee?)
A Fetchling Oracle (Knowledge/Face/Healing)

Not your typical party, to be sure, but it seems we have most of the bases covered. Should be fun!


'Allo Kids!

It seems someone left the back door open a crack, and I managed to slip in through the gap. I like what I've seen of the character concepts so far.

It appears you may be short a divine caster. How fortunate that I seem to enjoy playing such folks.

My concept sketch so far is a Fetchling Oracle, using the Resurrected Campaign Trait. Of course, this assumes that a Fetchling is allowed (DM?).

My thinking is that s/he died quite suddenly (violently, even), and awoke face-to-face with a being who, in effect, said "you're not supposed to die here, not now! No, no, no! Wrong place, entirely! Idiot!" So, s/he made a deal with said being(which would work well with the Legalistic Curse I'm considering), that s/he would be sent back to "do it right this time," but that there were strict rules involved. One of which is that s/he must go to Wati. "That's where you're supposed to die!"

My initial thought is to take the Lore Mystery, so as to provide the knowledge base that seems a bit weak, as well, but I'm entirely open to other options as well.

If I go Fetchling/Legalistic, s/he'll she'll be a sharp negotiator, probably a relic hunter-type, looking to capitalize on the relic market and create (or influence) a local Fetchling Trade Enclave.

Otherwise, I'll probably go with the "distracted professor" trope. You know: "Fascinating! Did you notice that the khopesh he was using has the markings of the Terari cult? Those markings are believed to sever the souls of the enemy from their bodies - dooming them to wander the universe, forever unable to - eh? Oh, sorry. Yes, that is quite a lot of blood coming out of your belly. What? OH! Right!" Casts CLW

Either way, should be a blast!


OK, I have two character ideas that would likely work, and I'm having a bit of trouble choosing between the two, so I thought I'd go ahead and post them both, and let you decide which works best.

Kameron D'Costa:

Male Human Inquisitor 1 LG (Martial Scientist)

Appearance:

An earnest, open-faced young man, very rarely caught wearing anything but the official uniform of the RHC - brass polished 'till it glows, leather belts and harnesses well-oiled, boots shined, all issued equipment maintained to parade-ground standard - Kameron is the RHC recruiting poster come to life. In excellent physical shape, Kam isn't some hulking brute, but the uniform sits well on his broad shoulders and tall, tapered frame. His brown hair is cut very close (a legacy of his time at the war academy), and his green eyes seem to take in everything, even as they echo his friendly smile.

Background:

Kameron's father was in the RHC, as was his father before him. Prior to the forming of the RHC, D'Costas served in the Army of Risur for generations. It was considered a family duty. The D'Costa family being a (very) minor noble line, with no property to speak of, still, duty to country is a bedrock value to them. When Kameron was 14, his father discovered a plot that involved members of the RHC. He managed to break up the plot, but doing so cost him his life. Two weeks later, Kameron was off to the war academy. He graduated six months ago, having successfully defended his thesis on the efficacy of unorthodox intelligence gathering methods in thwarting sabotage attempts. Six weeks after graduation, Kameron reported to the RHC recruiting station.

Personality:

Kameron is very much a cooler-headed D'Artagnan. He has joined the RHC eagerly, as something he's been expected (and excited) to do since he was first old enough to understand the stories he heard at his father's knee. He is an earnest young man - friendly, but a bit stubborn - good student, loyal (to a fault), and attentive to his duties. While he does dress like a martinet, he isn't quite the bright-eyed, single-minded rookie he appears. His father's death hit him hard, and he intends to keep his eyes open for plots against (and within) the RHC. The fact that his father died at the hands of a fellow RHC member (or so Kameron suspects, from having read his father's journals) has imprinted on the young man the lesson that false faces are everywhere, and may even be necessary to keep one alive.

Jaelynn Mystarys:

Female (High)Elf Wizard 1 NG (Vekeshi Mystic)

Appearance:

Jaelynn could be considered beautiful, if she put more effort into her appearance. As it is, she is still a lovely-looking young elf woman, despite her long auburn hair being somewhat unkempt (when not pulled back into an expedient pony-tail) her clothing (despite clearly being made from high-quality, custom-tailored fabrics) is somewhat frumpy, as if she just threw it on before leaving the house (or, perhaps, slept in them). While her equipment is also of good quality, it's almost as if she brought it with her as an afterthought. Her smile is just a little crooked, her nose just a little too straight, and her beautiful eyes just a bit too close together for her to be an object of every man's desire - and that's just fine with her. In fact, she takes pains to make sure her hair stays auburn, and her features just a little too rough - as looking like a High Elf would bring her *far* too much unwanted male attention. She's happy to be distrusted as a regular wood elf.

Background:

"Rescued" from the enclave of a Danoran noble during the Second Yerasol War (about 110 years ago), Jaelynn was smuggled to the estate of a minor noble family in Risur, where she was raised in secret by the wood-elf caretaker of the family's ancestral hunting lands, and his hedge-wizard wife (this was done at the command of the human lord - he hoped to use Jaelynn as a bargaining chip for his family one day). Things did not go as planned. Despite their very best attempts to keep her heritage a secret, the day Jaelynn came "of age," two High Elves appeared on her "parents'" doorstep. They said nothing, as the High Elves took her back "home" to an enclave in Elfaivar. While there, she was bethrothed to a young High Elf man, and allowed to study the ways of magic (as her "mother" had begun teaching her before). She also passed the tests to become a Vekeshi Mystic. But Jaelynn did not enjoy life as a revered High Elf princess, and so she fled the enclave and her fiancee, the night before her wedding. She got exactly 200 yards into the forest before she was caught and returned to the enclave. Still, her willingness to risk death rather than live a life of luxury and worship drew the attention of some powerful folks, and she was allowed to "suspend" her marriage for a decade. During that time, it was determined, she would return to Risur, on a mission to gain intellingence in this new (it's only 40-something years old), upstart organization, the Royal Homeland Constabulary.

Her connections in both nations worked together (one side unknowingly) to ensure her application to the RHC was approved. Both her wood-elf parents and her "friends" in the enclave were gratified the day she earned her badge. But the Vekeshi Mystics were unaware that Jaelynn means to use their own philosophy against them. She intends to use the next ten years to build up enough strength to remain in Risur, a free woman, loyal to her adopted homeland.

Personality:

Jaelynn is an incredibly smart woman, and she believes that, given enough time, she can learn, research, or puzzle out the answer to any problem or question. While friendly and helpful by nature, she is always working out some problem or another in her head (often more than one at a time), and can seem somewhat distracted or inattentive. She seems to pay little attention to her appearance, but in fact, this is a deliberate falsehood on her part. While she is relatively confident that the RHC knows she is a High Elf (not least because she was caught in the effects of a sleep spell during training one day), no one has "outed" her yet. She doesn't plan to deny her heritage if she is ever confronted about it, but the longer she can hold that day off, the better, she thinks. Jaelynn is almost obsessed with magic and its myriad uses. Even to the point that the more modern firearms and steam-powered contraptions that everyone seems so enthused with don't have any real draw for her, other than as abstract knowledge to be learned. Collecting knowledge (and thus, power) is one of Jaelynn's driving missions in life. Living well while she does so is another. She *is* a true convert to the Vekeshi philosophy, after all. She is also fiercely loyal to Risur, even (perhaps especially) after having been exposed to other cultures.


The Aasimars as described in this setting are basically 4E Devas, without the purple.

I'll have a character concept posted here sometime in the next 10-12 hours, max.


A couple of real quick questions for you, GM:

1)To clarify - pistols/one-handed firearms are simple weapons in this campaign?

2)Just how common are those types of firearms in this setting? I've read the player's guide, but I'm not entirely sure if every thug in an alley has a gun or not. I ask, because how often we expect to encounter guns would affect my spell selection.

Thanks!

J.


Darn you, Kris! You seem to find the most interesting games to play in, and then drag (invite) me into them.

And there is need for a "utility spellcaster," no less. How convenient that that's my favorite party slot to play. :-)

GM, please consider this my official expression of interest. I'll do some reading, and have you a solid character sketch by Monday.

Regards,

J.


Rÿarkaelin Nelnaereth wrote:
I will be away from my computer on the 24th-26th October and again on the 2nd of November. Just a heads-up so you don't wonder where I went. :)

You said "away from my computer." That doesn't prevent us from wondering where you're going, it just tells us where you're not. :-p


nightflier wrote:
i.jason wrote:

@Nightflier The next option on my list would be "Godless Healing."

Given that his father was a healer, it stands to reason that some of that ability might have passed to his son. And in keeping with Ead's blessing/curse, it fits that he would be unable to use it on anyone else...

I would require a knowledge of at least one healing spell (and the ability to cast it) in order to take this feat. In Midnight this is more powerful than in standard games.

I realize that healing spells in Midnight are not Divine magic, but this feat is entirely about giving the character an ability to be (somewhat) independent of a healing spellcaster (specifically Divine magic). To require someone to BE a healing spellcaster in order to have it seems to be completely counter to the design and purpose of the feat.

If imbalance is your concern, could you consider dropping the die to a d6, rather than a d8? Or possibly reducing the frequency of use (though once per day, and only when the character is below half max hp seems pretty limited already...)?

Not wanting to be a boat-rocker, but this seems an excellent feat for Midnight, since a major theme of the setting is "dealing with the loss of the gods," and "low-magic." This is non-diety-dependent, self-reliant, non-magic, mind-over-matter self-healing, with limited use parameters.

But it's your campaign. You don't like the feat, you don't like the feat. I'll adjust.


@Nightflier The next option on my list would be "Godless Healing."

Given that his father was a healer, it stands to reason that some of that ability might have passed to his son. And in keeping with Ead's blessing/curse, it fits that he would be unable to use it on anyone else...


nightflier wrote:
i.jason wrote:

@Nightfiler - I was wondering how you'd feel about the Feat "Black Marketeer." I'm debating between that and two other Feats, and but if you're not going to allow it, that narrows the choices down.

It would kind of fit with his description of being able to show up in a village and trade for whatever he happens to need at the time, though it's really designed to be a "borrow" kind of thing.

Midnight has no functional economy and the gold and jewels are worthless. So, this feat would be essentially wasted.

The fact that Midnight has no functional economy is why I thought this feat would work well. There is no specific requirement that the pool be made up of gold or jewels. It's a "borrow/barter" pool.

If you convert GP to VP (as Midnight does), the pool essentially allows a character to find up to 100vp (at first level) worth of "illegal or illicit items or services" in whatever village or town he shows up in. As almost anything in Midnight is "illegal or illicit," that should be a biggish list. If the character borrows the item and returns it, his pool returns to 100vp available. If he doesn't return it, the available vp permanently drops by the vp value of the item. The feat description also points out that secrets/information could be included in the things available to the "pool," though that would require trading secrets back into the pool to even things up.

As an example: In a village where finished goods trade at 2X vp value, a 50' silk rope would cost 20vp. With this feat, a character could ask the locals to "find" one for him. It would take 1d4 hours for this to happen. While borrowing it, his available vp for other pool uses would drop to 80vp. If he gives it back, his pool max returns to 100vp. If it gets cut by an orc, and he can't return it, the pool max permanently drops to 80vp (unless he bought another rope or found another 20vp and "put it into the pool," in which case, that 20vp would forever be "in the pool," and no longer available to spend on actually buying stuff).

I'm fine if you don't want to include it, I just wanted to make sure we were both thinking the same thing before you said "no."

Edit: To clarify, it's less about actually exchanging money, and more about exchanging favors.


@Nightfiler - I was wondering how you'd feel about the Feat "Black Marketeer." I'm debating between that and two other Feats, and but if you're not going to allow it, that narrows the choices down.

It would kind of fit with his description of being able to show up in a village and trade for whatever he happens to need at the time, though it's really designed to be a "borrow" kind of thing.


I had been wondering what caused the deadline move. This makes so much more sense now.

I might actually have time to flesh out that background the way I wanted to.


@nightflier - One more (hopefully last) clarification question:

"Weapon Familiarity: Gnomes treat all crossbows as
martial weapons and they gain Rapid Reload as bonus
feat at 1st level. Those of them who already have that
level of proficiency with those weapons because of a
class feature are considered having Weapon Focus
bonus feat with those weapons."

Does this mean that a character has to have BOTH weapon proficiency AND Rapid Reload before the Gnome bonuses count as Weapon Focus?

Specifically, as a Rogue, I have proficiency with hand crossbows. As a Gnome, assuming no other feats taken, do I have Rapid Reload AND Weapon Focus with hand crossbows, or just Rapid Reload?


nightflier wrote:

It's after Linguistics and before Perform. This is copied from the rules document pdf:

The rogue's class skills are Acrobatics (Dex), Appraise (Int), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disable Device (Dex), Disguise
(Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Knowledge (dungeoneering) (Int), Knowledge (local) (Int), Linguistics (Int), Perception (Wis), Perform (Cha),
Persuasion (Cha), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Stealth (Dex), Swim (Str), and Use Magic Device (Cha).
Skill Ranks per Level: 8 + Int modifier.

Yeah, I was about to copy/paste and show you that it *wasn't* there, and that's when I saw it.

It's been a long, tough week.

I should have this character mostly done in a few hours.


OK... I looked. More than twice.

Apparently I'm blind. *sigh*

Now I need more skill points. :-)


@Nightflier - Since you've clarified that the Rogue bonus feat prerequisites still apply, I wonder why Sixth Sense is on that list. Sixth Sense requires "Perception 1 rank as a class skill."

Perception is not a class skill for Rogues as you've built them.

Which makes me question why a Feat that requires ranks in a skill, AS a class skill, would be a Bonus Feat/Class Feature for a class that doesn't include that skill.

Or am I missing something?


Grand Moff Vixen wrote:
My character's name is Lantesh. A variation on a name I saw in a TV show. I am working on both the crunch and the background currently. I will have more sometime Monday. I have a job interview that morning.

Good luck on the interview! Assuming a few answers come this weekend, I should have most of my character ready by sometime Monday as well.


Just a general question: does anyone have a list of Midnight-appropriate Gnome names/naming conventions?


@Nightflier - Another ambiguity: Under Sneak Stab, it says:

Benefit: A rogue focuses her ability to deal sneak
attack damage with daggers and similar weapons to such a degree
that she can deal more sneak attack damage with those
weapons at the expense of sneak attacks with other weapons.
When she makes a sneak attack with a dagger, or a similar
weapon she uses d8s to roll sneak attack damage instead of
d6s.

While doing d8 damage with daggers "and similar weapons" (which is vague by itself) is certainly "more damage," you don't list what the game effect of "at the expense of sneak attack damage with other weapons" is. One might assume that the character with this talent can't do any sneak attack damage with any other weapons, or one might suspect the sneak attack dice for other weapons is d4s, it's not clear.

*Edit* On re-reading, "at the expense of sneak attacks with other weapons" is relatively clear. *headdesk* never mind.


@Nightflier - Also, should I assume that where you've not listed specific changes, the original Midnight rule stands? For example, you don't list HD, weapon proficiencies, etc. for Rogues.


@Nightflier - Point of clarification on Rogue Bonus Feats - Are the feat prerequisites in effect for these feats? In other words, can I select Deflect Arrows without having Improved Disarm first? Or Improved Steal without Combat Expertise? I'm assuming no, but thought I'd ask, since it's not explicitly stated either way.


Wow, possibly a noble Gnome? Inneresting. Survey says...

Noble? 1d20 ⇒ 10 Well, guess not. Which is fine for humble little ol' me... :-)


i.jason wrote:

I appear to be a few hours late, but if there's enough interest for a second party/game, or room for a tenth character, I'd love to take a stab at a Gnome Rogue, possibly with the Charismatic (or maybe Healer) heroic path.

I like sailors and gnomish roguery, so even though Midnight is a new campaign setting for me to play in (I have the book - more reading to do), I think I can handle the character type. And besides, only someone who has no clue as to what's going on could be as optimistic as my character. :-)

*Headdesk* Chanceborn. Not Charismatic.


I appear to be a few hours late, but if there's enough interest for a second party/game, or room for a tenth character, I'd love to take a stab at a Gnome Rogue, possibly with the Charismatic (or maybe Healer) heroic path.

I like sailors and gnomish roguery, so even though Midnight is a new campaign setting for me to play in (I have the book - more reading to do), I think I can handle the character type. And besides, only someone who has no clue as to what's going on could be as optimistic as my character. :-)