GM Granta's AP Planning

Game Master Granta

Hmm is not going to be joining us :-( She thought that one of her campaigns was dying, and could thus be replaced, but it is coming back to life.

So . . . we will start recruiting publicly on Monday. To that end, I would like to setup some sort of private chat for us to discuss candidates. How would Google Hangouts work for everyone? If not well, does anybody have other ideas?

Way too much like The Little Mermaid for me... new approach.

Thalasou liked to go for long swims in the ocean. Once he ran afoul of an angry, mad-at-the-world merman. In that confrontation the merman wounded Thalasou's ankles in an unhealable way (I don't know how, I also don't know why anyone in the Pathfinder world ever dies outside of combat since it is rather simple to get CLW at anytime) . It pains him to walk. Gozreh saw the conflict and thought that the merman was being unkind. He made it up to Thalasou by giving him his powers.

This still needs some work but it's better than the Ariel story I was first thinking of.

I don't think I've ever used google hangouts but I'm fine with learning something new. I use gmail so I have a google account. Just tell me how to access the hangout.

MindXing, my only concern with your build is that 10 con. I know you don't want to be a frontliner, but especially because we are rolling Hp, it seems really risky to me. As a disclaimer, I think I've only made two characters with less than a 14 con and both had 12's. I promise, I have no bias at all.... :)

Also, are we going to pursue the mist fighting strategy from the get go? That's fine with me, I just need to shuffle my feats around then!

As far as a private chat, we could also do some sort of offsite chat room or even a closed facebook group (just adding to the possibilities here). I have no issue with verbal communication, but there is something to be said about having a conversation while making comparisons in writing.

I'm concerned about the 10 con too. I could drop my wisdom to 12 and push my con to 13. I think I like that better.

I can do Google Hangouts, seems simplest if we all have Google accounts.

Or there's Slack. It's free.

I also have a phobia of 10 CON. In my past APs, the only guy that died (over and over and over) was the guy with a 10 CON frontliner. Thus, I encourage you to consider the CON 13. :)

I'm not sure we need to go with the Blind Fight strategy from Level 1, but if we're going to use it as a core combat tactic, we should probably have it up and running by Level 3.

EDIT: MindXing, note that your Water Sight ability is constant. Only the scrying is in rounds per day.

Well, I don't want to die over and over again. I like con 13 better.

If we don't do blind fight from the start then I could take Fluid Nature now to protect my soft skin for level 1 and 2 then take Water Sight at level 3.

Thanks for the clarification on rounds per day. Hero Lab was confusing me.

Here's an updated Thalasou.

This is my blast cleric, specialized in Fireball and Burning hands. She was built up quite versatile from the beginning, and later by using preferred spell to keep situational spells prepared but still being able to blast. With fire & acid spells she rarely got blocked by immunities. The area spells were sometimes disappointing, as enemies make their saving throw often and evasion is really common. With her cleric bonus to outsider spell penetration, spell resistance wasn't really a problem. I would recommend having both single target touch attacks and area attacks. Between acid and fire, I never met anything immune to both.

I don't yet have Hangouts or Slack or Facebook, I can install something for discussion. I strongly prefer text chats, as most of the time I'm not able to listen or speak. (Work or children around).

I would really have liked to play with Hmm. Well, let's hope we get someone almost as good.

BTW, any of you going to PaizoCon this year? I will be there just Friday and Saturday. Have to be back home Sunday for a friend's wedding.

Suggestion for replacement: RePete

No idea if he'd be interested.

Re: Aerondor 2.0

I am currently using my considerable Bluff and enchantment magic to convince Chris Marsh (Dungeon Master S). If he says no, then we'll do an open recruitment on Monday.

Re: Chat

Google Hangouts is generally included on Android phones, and can be used on a computer as well: link. It is primarily a text chat, but also has voice/video options. I PMed a link for the actual chat room.

Re: Blind-Fight
Your characters will only have recently met when the adventure starts, so level 3 makes more sense.

It is looking like I'll need Pavo to contribute more substantial damage to combats (depending on what our potential 5th wants to build), so rather than Bard--either +2/+2 self-buffed or +1/+1 group buffed--I built up a Sneak Attack Rogue. You can see my draft feat progression here.

The True Love story feat does not add much to a Rogue, so I switched it out for Nemesis. I will be keeping the Kelish true love background as a motivation, though. Hopefully, there are plenty of nemeses from which to choose.

Warning: I do not power build often, but I am capable of recognizing and making use of loopholes. I did so with this build to maximize my skill investment. The build is not dependent on it, so if Granta has an objection, I can change it without significantly affecting my character or the build. I will call out the tactic in a spoiler so that those of you who do not want to be tempted to copy-paste my trick won't have to read it.

Background: Pavo is a son of a minor lord. So minor, the younger members of the family and women help with the daily upkeep of the properties. When he was older, he went to Oppara to clerk for a barrister and learn the law. On a business trip while serving as a clerk, he met a Kelish woman and became immediately smitten. Sadly, he could not follow her to Quadira and she could not stay in Taldor. By the time he finished his training, [Nemesis] destroyed his family's finances and ruined their good name for reasons known only to [Nemesis]. Now, Pavo became a barrister and travels the rural circuit, providing legal aid to the country folk. However, when he returns to Oppara, he takes on an alternate persona. He breaks into storehouses belonging to [Nemesis] and steals to give to the poor, he seduces the women of [Nemesis]'s family and other ladies of relevance to [Nemesis] out of spite, and largely goes about trying to cause mischief for [Nemesis].

I am perfectly fine with that combination, and glad to see you thinking creatively.

Just realized that I never shared what I've been working with for Tiber's backstory!

Tiber Graccus grew up as the second son in a middle-class family in the Lionsgate District of Oppara, Taldor. With the family's merchant business going to his brother, he had to establish his own lot in life. When he came of age, he joined the Taldan Horse, the cavalry division of Taldor's army. During a skirmish with a group of Qadiran outlaws, his prized horse, Wilfred the Mighty, was cut down as a result of [Nemesis]'s overconfident tactics. Upon their return to the capital, Tiber announced his resignation and hasn't to ridden a horse since. Lately, he has been making ends meet as a mercenary and competing in some of the local sporting events. His most recent sporting accomplishment involving him successfully hunting the most boar in the Verduran Forest.

I realized that I had taken some investment in Intimidate for Delena, but there was something strange about it? It was not included in the skill list for a reason. I *could* change it to diplomacy+Ease of Faith, but that makes little sense storywise, intimidate+Bully does.

I just forgot to put Intimidate on the spreadsheet, but Gummy Bear added it. The skill should be on the list now.

Granta's dead-pan humor did not translate well over written medium. :)

Huh? Why do I have the feeling I just completely missed something?

::Diagrams it out for Granta::

Yes, Intimidate was intentionally left off for reasons which I cannot disclose due to an NDA that I had to sign before purchasing this adventure path. I most definitely did not forget to add it.

I realized that I had taken some investment in Intimidate for Delena, but there was something strange about it? It was not included in the skill list for a reason.

I just forgot to put Intimidate on the spreadsheet

Oh, lol. I didn't realize that you were referencing a two week old post :-p

I'm considering asking permission for the Counterfeit Mage archetype, but do you guys think the improved ability to use scrolls and wands is worth the rogue talent I would lose? For this group, not in general. It's probably pretty decent for PFS.

Sorry, non-native and text communication means I miss some kinds of humor. :)

Re: Counterfeit Mage

I am okay with the archetype, but worried that it might compete for resources too much with your existing idea. Not only do you lose one rogue talent off the bat, but you would probably need/want to spend another on black market connections.

You are unlikely to have the gold or need for fully charged wands, but partially charged is hard to find outside of PFS. However, I would allow their purchase with the above talent.

Does a wizard get Scribe Scroll as a bonus feat as in basic Pathfinder rules, or Spell focus as in PFS rules? As we have crafting, I presume it's the Scribe Scroll.

Scribe Scroll.

Posting with my alias now! GM Granta, would you mark my Ninja Dot Placeholder as inactive, please?

Done

Woo! Thanks.

Does anyone know what the stats for a heavy combat trained horse is? I'm probably going to purchase one at some point to fill the horse shaped void in Tiber's soul. I know it won't advance with us, but having a mount would make a lot of sense for the character.

Is there a way for it to advance with us? I could spend downtime training it and stuff too.

Horse

The modification for Heavy is in the description below the stats.

Combat trained just gives it those tricks and does not affect stats.

There's a couple of feats to gain an advancing animal companion, but they would require apprival.

Re: Advancing Animal Companion

Those feats are unlikely to get approved.

Re: Fifth Player

I was able to get the recruitment posted a day early. Please PM this link to anybody that you are interested in playing with, for example RePete and Ladile have both been mentioned. And remember to discuss the recruitment in Hangouts, not here.

I keep trying to find ways to use regular animals in PFS. My Uda Wendo travels with a mundane guard dog. Non-advancing animals aren't terrible. Worst is trying to be a mounted knight with a regular horse against a dragon, but, you know... dragon. Mounted Combat allows you to negate a hit against your horse, so that helps.

Anyhow, I'm sure but cannot prove that regular animals work just fine.

My PFS sorcerer made it to level 8 with his original horse, at which point he set it out to pasture and started using phantom steed instead. I imagine it would be tougher with a front liner, though.

That said, I expect the AP to be in populated areas pretty much all the time, so replacing a mundane mount wouldn't be difficult--or expensive once you're medium level.

Looked into it, its also like a three feat chain which is more than I can fit. I have no problem with a regular mount and I'll probably use it every now and then. It'll be more of an RP piece than anything else anyways, I'm not too worried about it. At 300gp for a heavy warhorse, assuming Granta is ok with it, I could always pretend the 300gp is for the vet bill of fixing up the horse, rather than getting a new one when it gets lightning bolted to hell ;) or maybe Tiber can't get attached to the horse like he used to and always keeps a level of detachment... ooohh... the RP opportunities of a quadrupedal animal!

Have the people mentioned above been sent their PM's?

The basic animals are pretty sturdy, especially with a nice barding. Even if the creature would die, its equipment would be reusable, so you could do as my druid and buy +1 mithral breastplate for the animal.

Of course much of the survivability of animals depends on the GM, some like to target the mounts but others don't. In PFS the difference has been huge. A bonus point in this is that every hit taken by a horse is one hit less for a player character. Animals are much easier to replace.

so you could do as my druid and buy +1 mithral breastplate for the animal.

For the record, if I was your GM for that game, your druid would be "unable to cast druid spells or use any of her supernatural or spell-like class abilities while [making her animal companion wear metal armor] and for 24 hours thereafter."

Darkleaf cloth is your friend.

TEN THINGS TO KNOW ABOUT TALDANS

As citizens of one of the oldest nations in Avistan, whose bravery and martial prowess forged an empire and whose canny wit helped them establish trade networks around the globe, Taldans are complex and multifaceted. While the amusing illusion of stuffed-shirted wealthy elites harrumphing as they look down their noses at downtrodden peasants makes for an easy laugh, a campaign in Taldor means much more frequent contact with a vast array of citizens. To diversify your view of Taldor, here are 10 interesting aspects of the Taldan people.

10. Taldans Love Wordplay. As originators of the Taldane language, Taldans understand a considerable breadth and depth of the Common tongue that even their former colonies don’t share, and fast-paced banter and clever linguistic choices are proud parts of their heritage. Even the flintiest of farmers love insightful plays on words, and a cleverly timed, crass pun can delight even the stodgiest of nobles.

9. Taldans Love Board Games. Every Taldan fancies herself a general, and so board games, strategy games, and war games are popular pastimes for everyone from gong farmers to emperors. While gambling can be fun, it leaves victory in the hands of fate—something few Taldans can stomach—and they prefer diversions that offer at least the illusion of control. While many board games—the equivalents on Golarion of agon, backgammon, chess, Parcheesi, and rithmomachy—were either invented or adopted by Taldor, just as popular are war games played out with wooden miniatures using elaborate rules.

8. First Emperor Taldaris Is the Man. Taldans are a people suffused in patriotism and a love of history, but until we published Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Taldor, The First Empire, they lacked the sort of founding myth typical of large (and especially old) nations. When we updated their history, we fleshed out their origins as a series of city-states united by a great leader: First Emperor Taldaris, Taldor’s own Romulus or George Washington. Like similar figures, he’s often invoked and exploited by residents: politicians insist they know what his vision for Taldor really was; tutors place him in all sorts of parables for bravery, honesty, and other virtues; and inns and estates advertise that “Taldaris slept here” to impress travelers—even though few, if any, structures in modern Taldor have survived since the First Emperor’s day.

7. Taldan Hair Is a Big Deal. Even poor households invest in quality brushes, sheers, and oils from the tea tree and argan tree to keep themselves looking and smelling good, and every family has its own secret recipe for shiny, healthy hair. Many outsiders consider this yet another example of Taldan vanity, but the truth is more complex. Taldans’ world travels have brought a wide array of parasites home over the centuries; clean hair is a simple comfort that also promotes health.

6. Taldans Will Eat Anything. You can’t be a refugee or a soldier on the march and still be a picky eater. Since the founding of their nation, Taldans have embraced a philosophy of “whatever doesn’t kill me makes me stronger,” and that very much extends to their embracing of unusual and exotic foods. For nobles, this translates to eating almost anything that walks, crawls, flies, slithers, or swims, while for commoners it more often means making a meal out of whatever parts the rich won’t eat.

5. Taldans Are Creative. Shelyn began as a Taldan god, and Taldor still reveres the arts in every form. “Anything worth doing is worth doing with a flourish,” the Taldan saying goes, and almost every citizen of the empire pursues an art in her spare time, especially music and dance. Most families have a long tradition associated with a particular skill they may turn into a business—such as painting, weaving, or woodcarving—but just as many are farmers who pluck away at their lyres after work or sing reprises from their favorite operas to make the harvest pass more quickly. Illustrated or illuminated books are especially popular, and many families record their history in books passed down and doodled in over generations.

4. Taldans Love Dogs. Taldor claims it domesticated the first dog, but then again, Taldans claim to be the first to do a lot of things. Realistically, while dogs were rare in Azlanti society, they were common among the Kellid and Garundi societies that early Taldans filtered themselves through, and dogs became companions and workers in a culture hard up for extra hands. In those first unstable centuries, Taldor bred a hundred specialty dog breeds to assist with herding, pest control, physical labor, warfare, and even kitchen work, and as the Taldans’ fortunes rose, they also bred dogs to serve purely as companions.

3. Taldans Love Pie. Since before the first Army of Exploration, Taldans have been sealing their tastiest treasures—and especially leftovers—inside pie shells to help preserve them, and that trend continues to this day. Sweet pies are the traditional breakfast, while farmers and laborers carry a savory hand pie or two with them for a midday snack. Taldans particularly love blending the sweet and the savory into pies, creating treats such as jubilee pie, a rich mix of currants, cherries, and fowl served at almost every major event.

2. Taldans Are Very Polite—Until They’re Not. Taldans live by their politics and succeed through cooperation. Sometimes that means smiling politely and shaking the hand of the man who tried to kill you last week. Rudeness isn’t just unseemly... It’s un-Taldan! They instead couch insults in careful language, usually as unhelpful critiques and backhanded compliments, most notably the cold Taldan “Well, aren’t you a treasure.” Once Taldans decide to stop being polite, they take their outrage and insults up to 11, insulting, scolding, threatening, and yelling in tirades that usually end in duels.

1. Taldans Never Quit. While most of Azlant sank, the ancestors of modern Taldor dragged themselves onto a foreign shore and pulled their lives back together. Orcs attacked and they rebuilt. Kellids plundered them and they rebuilt. They founded a kingdom and ran into one natural barrier after another—from rivers to forests to deserts to more orcs—and every time they pushed forward again. Taldor’s glories stem from bravery and skill, to be sure, but more than anything they come from the fact that Taldans never look at a challenge and say “maybe not this time.”

This is nice! I can refine my characters by defining their attitudes to these points. I can instantly see some that they agree and some that are where they differ from standard Taldan, and rest give some extra thoughts.

As for the druid, that wouldn't have stopped her. She would just cast all the buff spells, then put the armor on her bear, and then ride through the air with her musket blazing. She was in Emerald Spire, which meant 15 minute workdays, and somewhat unusual kind of druid.

I've heard that there are 2-3 PFS scenarios which are intros/tie-ins to the AP. Does anybody know which ones they are?

9-08: Birthright Betrayed (levels 1-5)
9-13: Lion's Justice (levels 7-11) (supposed to be the last of "several" but I only know of those two)

The Quest Honor's Echo also serves as a pretty good prequel.

#9-11: The Jarlsblood Witch Saga is another, but #9-08 is the scenario I was looking for. I'm thinking about running it for an intro.

I have played Birthright Betrayed.

It doesn't actually mean that much as we are not playing PFS in this, and I don't think I remember anything that would ruin the scenario anyway.

I ran 9-08, it was really fun and I think it would serve as an excellent intro to Taldor.

Are you thinking of running one of these scenarios as a warm up for our characters?

I'm planning out my feats and I'm wondering what all of you think of meta-magic feats. Are they worth getting?

Some are good, if you specialize in using them. Dazing Persistent spells are good for control, Selective for area spells, Elemental for changing damage type, Empower and Maximize for more damage, etc. Some are better as rods, I have used Selective and Extend rods.

Quicken might be the only one that is very useful for any caster.

Feats are in very short supply so if a metamagic feat would see only occasional use, it might not be worth it.

More about metamagic:

As examples, I could use my two priests. First one is support/healer, and has only extend rod to use magic armor all day.

The second is the blaster one. She has Heighten Spell to get the feat preferred spell, to spontaneously cast fireball. Then, she has empower spell to make fireballs hit harder. Her archetype gives free Intensify to raise the dice cap, so that the fireballs hit harder. Then there's Elemental spell to get around fire resist, and Quicken spell to get two fireballs per round. Finally, she uses a Selective rod to avoid hitting allies.

So, it is all about the build and what you do with your spells. Offensive spells tend to benefit more.

Re: Warm-up Scenarios

I am thinking about running the 1-5 scenario partly as a warm-up and partly to delay the actual AP. The more I dive into the adventure, the more I think we should follow the near-universal advice to read the whole AP before starting it.

Re: Metamagic

I consider Quicken Spell a must for pretty much every full progression caster. After that, it is all situational. My illusionist gets a lot of mileage out of Persistent Spell, but my cleric and oracle barely use metamagic.

I generally detest Empower and Maximize Spell. The key is to compare the metamagic spell to an unmodified spell of the modified level. Is an empowered fireball so much more powerful than your 5th-level spells that it justifies spending a feat?

Well, it would be nice if higher level spells would be more powerful. Sadly, most of them aren't. For a wizard, cone of cold is 5th level spell and only gets a higher dice cap than fireball. An Intensified fireball is exactly same damage and 4th level spell. At level 9, when you get cone of cold, without spell level boosts, empowered fireball is clearly superior. With the trait Magical Lineage the difference is even greater, as you get one level of metamagic free. Also, feats such as spell specialization work only for single spells, so if you use a different spell from each level, you need the feat for every one of those.

The downside is that the DC is lower, so you get half damage more often. It doesn't matter if there is no save, such as in scorching ray or shocking grasp, so those are quite often used.

In my character's case, when she would have gotten Flame strike as a 5th-level spell, she could cast Empowered Intensified Fireball as a 4th-level spell. I got a lot of more castings per day, for 1,5 times the damage, for a bit lower DC.

Empower and Maximize are useful, but they often require very heavy specialization on a single spell. For a blaster caster they are very good, but for a generalist who occasionally does damage they are bad.

To clarify, I wasn't saying compare your empowered fireball to your 5th-level damage spells, but to all of them in general. Dominate person is the obvious example, but baleful polymorph, cloudkill, feeblemind, and wall of stone all surpass fireball in a decent amount of circumstances.

And keep in mind, fireball doesn't just need to be better; it needs to be so much better that you are justified spending a feat.

Wall of stone ftw!