I was reminded of how a lot of us who have played the game for a long time have settled into our favorite classes and playstyles. If you stick with a game for this long, you have probably found what works best for you and prefer doing it over most things. So, what class or build do you just keep coming back to? And what experience have you gained with it that may not be common knowledge?
Personally, I love summoning monsters, and I've done summoning builds using a large variety of classes and archetypes. My experience is that you can really struggle against damage reductions, since most summons do lower single damage attacks. And you can struggle on swarms as there are few summoning options that deal area damage with most not being available till later levels.
Secondly, I've played a lot of healers. I have really enjoyed pushing channel to its limits, but I've found I can go almost too far with this to the point where regular damage just isn't dangerous to your party.
For PF1e, my favorite would probably be [cavalier or fighter or ranger]* 1/wizard** 6/eldritch knight 2/arcane archer 3/eldritch knight +8. Pretty much able to deal with any opponent or situation (including completely shutting down enemy casters via Imbue Arrow + antimagic field at higher levels).
*- depending on whether I want mounted archery with phantom steed (emissary cavalier), a bonus feat (fighter), or the ability to use wands with ranger spells (like cure light wounds and barkskin) without needing Use Magic Device checks (ranger)
**- probably Evocation/Admixture school, but possibly an exploiter wizard
I always come back to Druid and/or Ranger with a bit of cleric mixed in. The PF1 Hunter has now completely occupied that niche for me as well.
I like to dabble with Shaman's and anything that has that nature / land spirit magic to it. And I dally with arcane casters to a certain degree.
Hunter > Skald > Druid > Shaman > Inquisitor > Bard ... Everything else is ... interesting and I'll try it. But I have my niches picked out.
Then again, if I just want to (mostly) hit things (and the table is OK with a highly optimized "build") I'll break out this character: Heart of the Fields human mutation warrior fighter with variant multiclass barbarian.
I always come back to Druid and/or Ranger with a bit of cleric mixed in. The PF1 Hunter has now completely occupied that niche for me as well.
That’s interesting. So do you usually go with animal companions? I’ve played a couple druids but haven’t done much with the companion options.
Assuming we're talking about PF1, I've been a GM pretty much since it came out and I've played a grand total of four characters, all different races and classes.
I guess we could consider GM to be the class you keep coming back to. Do you enjoy the role of GM?
I switch back and forth between 2WF/Sneak attack builds, ad Arcane Casters. Sometimes trying to combine them.
My Arcane Trickster was so effective at dealing insane levels of damage, that the GM banned the class for a while.
I switch back and forth between 2WF/Sneak attack builds, ad Arcane Casters. Sometimes trying to combine them.
My Arcane Trickster was so effective at dealing insane levels of damage, that the GM banned the class for a while.
I usually think of Arcane Tricksters as utility. Were you doing most of the damage with your weapons or were you somehow combining them with magic attacks?
I usually think of Arcane Tricksters as utility. Were you doing most of the damage with your weapons or were you somehow combining them with magic attacks?I switch back and forth between 2WF/Sneak attack builds, ad Arcane Casters. Sometimes trying to combine them.
My Arcane Trickster was so effective at dealing insane levels of damage, that the GM banned the class for a while.
Arcane Trickster has access to Greater Invisibility and Haste, combining that with 2WF, and/or spells, both of which can have Sneak damage, makes for a lot of damage. at 14th level, you can have a magic missile do 5d4+5+7d6.
and suddenly that lightning bolt can potentially do 21d6 at that same 14th level, if it's intensified... add on things like Varisian Tattoo, Shocking Robe, and you hit that damage threshold earlier.
An arcane trickster can be extremely effective as a blaster with ranged touch spells.
The issue is setting up consistent sneak attacks at range. One strategy before greater invisibility is available (which can be a long wait) involves obscuring mist and a way to see through it (sylph with Cloud Gazer, wizard with the Air/Smoke school, a goz mask, etc.).
Most of my PF 1E experience as a player (rather than GM) has been Society, and for that, I've made a point of playing a lot of very different characters. That said, I have repeated rogue a couple of times. I enjoy that class because it's designed to be good at skills AND combat, but there's a lot of room for different approaches to both.
My first PFS character (and the first to reach Seeker level) was a fairly standard burglar-type human rogue, but well-rounded enough in other skills to be the party's second-best in many of them. And occasionally, the luck of the draw at a table meant that he had to serve as party "face" because he was the only one with ANY ranks in Diplomacy.
The last PF1 character I played before our local area turned pretty entirely to 2E was also a rogue, this time a tiefling escapologist rogue, and eventually a shadowdancer. (Part of the fun with her was trying to finally use up some of the RSP and/or GM boons I hadn't found a home for yet, because I might not get another opportunity.)
In between, I played a kitsune hunter/rogue with a flanking-focused build, and a halfling cleric/rogue of Calistria, but neither got much play.
An arcane trickster can be extremely effective as a blaster with ranged touch spells.
The issue is setting up consistent sneak attacks at range. One strategy before greater invisibility is available (which can be a long wait) involves obscuring mist and a way to see through it (sylph with Cloud Gazer, wizard with the Air/Smoke school, a goz mask, etc.).
Impromptu sneak attack is available at 3rd level Trickster, 7th level overall, but can cast invisibility at 3rd level overall. if built right.
depending on the character/campaign, I've also gone with the Exploiter wizard, which can use dimensional slide to get into flanking easily, and apply the sneak attack to touch spells like shocking grasp.
Note the word "consistent"...
Impromptu Sneak Attack is limited uses per day. Invisibility lasts for only one attack. And an arcane trickster is... fragile (comparatively); not the best choice to mix it up in melee for flanking as a general tactic.
Obscuring mist and a way to see through it allows ranged sneak attacks each round (while also hiding the arcane trickster from the enemy's ranged attacks) without further actions.
One of my favorite builds is what I call the “Voice of the Goddess”. It is a half orc inquisitor of Sarenrae, with the reformation inquisition. Tade out orc ferocity and orc weapon familiarity for skilled. Dump CHA and boost INT to 12 which gives you 8 skill points per level. Focus mostly on WIS and DEX, but have at least 13 STR and a decent CON. For feats the main ones are Weapon Finesse, Dervish Dance, Power Attack and Cornugun Smash. At 8 skill points per level, you can easily max out intimidate and a few other skills. Use the half orc FCB to gain +1/2 on intimidate and to identify monsters. This is going to give you a huge bonus on intimidate. Cornugun smash allows you to use intimidate for free when power attacking.
Despite dumping CHA, you are the party face. Being able to use WIS instead of CHA for Diplomacy, Intimidate and Perform Oratory is good. But being able to roll twice for those skills and take the better result makes it even better. At 8th level you can use Charm Person a number of times per day equal to your CHA modifier. You take a slight hit on bluff and disguise due to dumping CHA, but your sense motive more than makes up for it. You can also detect alignments at will and can use discern lies for 1 round per level as an immediate action.
Judgments give you incredibly versatility in combat. Whatever you need in combat there is usually a judgement that can help. Even a single point in the relevant KS is going to give you a high enough bonus that identifying what you are fighting is easy and allows you to utilize bane effectively. Spells can either do direct damage or boost your combat ability further. Heroism is on the inquisitor spell list and is a long-lasting buff that not only boost your chance to hit and saves but also boost all skills.
Being DEX based means you effectively have all good saves. Stalwart also means if you make your fortitude or will save you ignore the spell. If you can manage to get evasion you are nearly immune to any spell that allows a save. Spell Resistance is an inquisitor spell, so you can even avoid spells that do not offer a save.
In addition to getting a lot of skill points the inquisitor has bonuses to multiple skills. WIS is your primary stat so you will probably track better than a ranger and have a perception that few can match. Your intimidate and sense motive will be the best in the game bar none.
Solo tactics can also be a big help. Pack intimidation gives you a +2 to your intimidate for every ally within 30 feet. This is on top of the highest intimidation in the game. If you pick up signature skill for intimidate at high level, you have a good chance of removing a target from the combat with a single hit. At worst you give every target you hit the shaken condition if they are not immune to fear.
Note the word "consistent"...
Impromptu Sneak Attack is limited uses per day. Invisibility lasts for only one attack. And an arcane trickster is... fragile (comparatively); not the best choice to mix it up in melee for flanking as a general tactic.
Obscuring mist and a way to see through it allows ranged sneak attacks each round (while also hiding the arcane trickster from the enemy's ranged attacks) without further actions.
with there typically only being 4-5 combats per day, I find these methods consistent enough to have backstab "most" of the time (usually using just flanking). As for being fragile.... eh, just make sure you have a good healer in the party. never have much worried about being in flanking or not as far as being hit.
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I always come back to Druid and/or Ranger with a bit of cleric mixed in. The PF1 Hunter has now completely occupied that niche for me as well.That’s interesting. So do you usually go with animal companions? I’ve played a couple druids but haven’t done much with the companion options.
Having a companion creature is usually a staple with the builds that I love the most. I like to snub my nose at most of the optimization suggestions and make interesting choices these days, though I can hulk smash the table with an OP build should I feel the need to, and having a companion creature allows me the freedom to make less power optimal choices and spread the load across two creatures, even if I do have to equip them from a single wealth allotment.
As for a skald... my party is the companion creature. Rage Song, go!
I do tend towards pets a lot. I've tossed them on a lot of builds if I had the room. For dips, I like the Inspired Blade Swashbuckler. Just one level of that to start off a build and I instantly have Dex to Damage with a Swashbuckler. If I need dex to damage and the character doesn't have a rapier, I go to good ol' Unchained Rogue.
Human or elf wizard.
I have 2 sorts of builds I have played many times.
The first is a Kasatha or Thri-Kreen character which obtains multi-weapon combat, WP martial and blade boot. This allows 5 attacks while using a shield.
This I have paired with Speaker for the Past Shaman or Nature Fang Druid. The Nature Fang is a good melee combatant and a full caster. The Speaker for the Past, my favourite, is less good in melee but has both hexes and Oracle Revelations so has many ways to meet the challenges of the game. This, coupled with the fact it is entirely original, is why I love it.
The second is the witch class, particularly the ashiftah archetype. This could be entitled “The Joy of Hex” as hexes are superb in ways that are well known. They are also excellent in ways that are not and when I try to tell people on these boards of this they remain unconvinced.
Hexes make a starting witch much, much more powerful than other full arcane casters at low levels. Most times you use a hex you save a spell. This means that, due to the fact you use hexes instead of spells much of the time, you effectively have more spells available.
A witch should select spells differently to other arcane casters. You select spells to do the things you can’t do with hexes, offensively to take out groups of enemies. You still have room for some spells that are vital when needed but you don’t need them all the time, a great example being dispel magic.
Lastly, setting up hexes with cackle is a common and powerful tactic. Setting this up and maintaining it, you have to cackle within 30’ every single round to keep it going. Because of the once per day usage of the relevant hexes this needs skill and practice to maintain. The other players exploiting the comical helplessness of enemies often don’t know how hard it is to keep up.
I unfortunately have never run the Forever Undead, because it is ridiculously unfair to deal with, especially if your players aren't the type to do in game research and just keep trying to brute force the problem.
Maybe a topic for some other thread, but I also have builds that I won't play in a real campaign, because they are just too cheesy.
Big fan of Bloodragers. Can fight, can talk, can have very flexible personalities, instant extra plot hooks for the dm, often surprisingly mobile, can multiclass well (or be the multiclass), and I enjoy the high CHA low wis characters rp wise.
Big fan of Bloodragers. Can fight, can talk, can have very flexible personalities, instant extra plot hooks for the dm, often surprisingly mobile, can multiclass well (or be the multiclass), and I enjoy the high CHA low wis characters rp wise.
One of the best Bloodrager dips I've seen is for the Id Rager, Kindness Focus, Marshal Spirit. Being able to use Spirit Surge (via Marshal's Order) is handy.
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I can play most anything. Melee, ranged, divine, arcane, you name it.
I haven't played any psionic/occult characters, though. My groups tend to steer clear of those kinds of builds.
Personally, I *prefer* to play ranged Slayers and S&B Paladins. Sorcs and Oracles are my preferred casters.
Speaking of casters, I'm really digging the Mystic Theurge I'm playing in the Return of the Runelords AP one of my groups is going through right now.
I'd like to play a Brawler someday, though.
Speaking of casters, I'm really digging the Mystic Theurge I'm playing in the Return of the Runelords AP one of my groups is going through right now.
I enjoyed the Mystic Theurge, but falling being in spell progression and overall level did hurt. I found a couple of ways to help mitigate it, but it was still an issue.
Speaking of casters, I'm really digging the Mystic Theurge I'm playing in the Return of the Runelords AP one of my groups is going through right now.
First time I played a Mystic Theurge in Pathfinder 1e was in Rise of the Runelords. Druid/Sorcerer. Fun times.
I'm a big fan of the true battle mage from d&d 3.5e, especially with the abjure master and the ultimate magus prestige classes, now I play the arcanist in all types of combination, right now I'm playing a epic campaign trying to do all Varisia campaign with only 1 character, right now I have a arcanist brown fur transmuter level 15/ cross blooded sorcerer 1 (solar/red dragon)/ dragon disciple 4/mythic 5 (archmage/trickster), with the magic knack in arcanist and give me the arcanist a spell caster level of 20, the exploit blood development (solar), exploit school understanding (foresight), change the capstone to unique bloodline and get the abyss bloodline, and with the exotic heritage+ eldritch heritage (mythic) pit touched
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I love summoning monsters, and I've done summoning builds using a large variety of classes and archetypes. My experience is that you can really struggle against damage reductions, since most summons do lower single damage attacks. And you can struggle on swarms as there are few summoning options that deal area damage with most not being available till later levels.
I too love summoning, the flavour reason for this being a youthful love of Moorcock's Elric of Melnibone books. Yes, I am that old.
Mechanically, it is an extremely effective strategy with the drawback's Melkiador gives.
I played a Master Summoner once because I thought I could improve on Mercurial's build which can be found on Zenith. This proved very effective.
I want to play a Morphic Savant Summoner badly. I have not seen anyone make this archetype work well. Coming up with an effective and original build, that is just heaven for me. And also, Elric again.
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Bard by far. There are a few ways to pump the inspire courage bonus even in PFS and suddenly everyone is deadly as a raging barbarian. Add on encouraging good Hope for more offense but also saves and the level of what a GM can comfortably throw at you goes up an APL or two.
Then there are the archetypes on top of a caster or martial focus and the specialist combinations explode.
I like also the psychic class pure, but mostly use them as a single target damage, controller and espionage, and only use to assist me a planar Ally or planar binding, I almost play this class as a professional assassin/information breaker using fly and invisibility spell to pass most of the place I need to infiltrate as well silence, mind thrust, possession and mindlink (to share the information as a breaker information, no curious people must know what I was asked to do)
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There is one thing I love above all others in any game... Pet classes and summoning classes. I love having a companion or summoning minions and such, This has lead to the Unchained Summoner becoming one of my very favorite classes in Pathfinder. I dont play this kind of character too often as I dont want to annoy my group with it too much (Even if they do constantly tell me to stop worrying and just play what I find enjoyable... They are an amazing group.)
I really like these because your "character" is really a relationship of characters. Your eidolon can have their own goals that influences their summoner's goals. I think some people play it purely mechanically, but there is so much inspiration in having your character also be a relationship.
I can somewhat do this with familiar builds, but because of the power level disparity, the familiar always feels like more of a servant.
A middle ground is the Summon Guardian Spirit feat. That gives you a summon that you can have a relationship with, though they aren't really around often enough most of the time, and they are still fairly weak compared to your PC.
PS: By "relationship", I'm not talking about a romantic relationship, though that could still be a possiblity with an eidolon if you want to go with that. In general, I go for the battle partner relationship like in Pokemon or the Fate series.
By "relationship", I'm not talking about a romantic relationship, though that could still be a possiblity with an eidolon if you want to go with that. In general, I go for the battle partner relationship like in Pokemon or the Fate series
Like Jade regent campaign where you build a relationship with the npc based in gift, help and dialogue. That is why I like planar binding or ally it let you stablish conexión (relationship/nemesis) with creature of other planes
I rarely get to sit on the player side of the table. But of the few opportunities the one I had the most fun with was Kahrdulf the Ranter. A halforc abberant, spell eater bloodrager with his trusty animate mauler tumor Akebzu the battle crab.
Between being medium size l, having the "hefty brute" feat and grab that crab was able to hold plenty of enemies still for Kahrdulf to carve up.
On the subject of relationships between characters and their eidolons or familiars, consider this ability from the Seducer archetype of the witch class:-
"Garden of Delight (Su): At 8th level, the seducer can create a magical bower once per day. This functions as tiny hut with a caster level equal to the seducer’s witch level, but the interior is a lush garden. Those who rest for 8 hours within the garden heal at twice the usual rate. In addition, any creature engaging in willing sexual relations with the seducer in this garden gains a +2 morale bonus on saving throws for the next 24 hours. This bonus does not apply on saving throws against the seducer’s spells or abilities."
This allows, or rather greatly encourages, behavior in the game that is not suitable for children and probably isn't for adults either.
Paizo usually won't allow this kind of thing into print even when it is much milder than this. I suspect this may have been someone's idea of a joke that somehow slipped through.
The up side, such as it is, is that it is extremely effective in the game.
On the subject of relationships between characters and their eidolons or familiars, consider this ability from the Seducer archetype of the witch class:-
"Garden of Delight (Su): At 8th level, the seducer can create a magical bower once per day. This functions as tiny hut with a caster level equal to the seducer’s witch level, but the interior is a lush garden. Those who rest for 8 hours within the garden heal at twice the usual rate. In addition, any creature engaging in willing sexual relations with the seducer in this garden gains a +2 morale bonus on saving throws for the next 24 hours. This bonus does not apply on saving throws against the seducer’s spells or abilities."
This allows, or rather greatly encourages, behavior in the game that is not suitable for children and probably isn't for adults either.
Paizo usually won't allow this kind of thing into print even when it is much milder than this. I suspect this may have been someone's idea of a joke that somehow slipped through.
The up side, such as it is, is that it is extremely effective in the game.
Well if you follow Nocticula previous to her redemption you practically have to do this every day:
Ingest a dose of psychedelic plants or fungi and engage in any number of sexual acts (either alone or with others), during which at least a pint of blood must be shed. Gain a +4 profane bonus on saves against blindness and charm effects
Quite right Zepheri, I wasn't aware of those rules. Paizo goes to places suitable only for adults more than I thought.
Another classes that I like are the artificer ( golem crafting) with the technomancer. Still fight my gm to let me create a transformer or a Valkyria (Macross saga). when they introduced numeria and the futuristic technology it gets me the impression of a Warhammer 40k game play.
As for summoning I love the blackfire adept combined with the riftwarden ( of course I put my self as true neutral)
I'm a fan of the alchemist class for its versatility and the "mad scientist" RP factor. One example is Dr. Ratbotnik, a ratfolk vivisectionist/preservationist who throws summons instead of bombs, uses scurrying swarmer to get those sneak attacks in, and builds an army of anthropomorphic and awakened animals.
I adore the Alchemist pet archetype: Promethean Alchemist. The loss of bombs and mutagen is annoying but you can still figure something out.
I'm a fan of the alchemist class for its versatility and the "mad scientist" RP factor. One example is Dr. Ratbotnik, a ratfolk vivisectionist/preservationist who throws summons instead of bombs, uses scurrying swarmer to get those sneak attacks in, and builds an army of anthropomorphic and awakened animals.I adore the Alchemist pet archetype: Promethean Alchemist. The loss of bombs and mutagen is annoying but you can still figure something out.
I love the idea of that archetype, but when trying to build one out it felt like there were barely any compatible discoveries, since most of them modify abilities you traded out.
I love 1/2 Orc Bloodrager 1/Skalds that give up first blood power for a valet familar, I take Amplified Rage.
That means we both get +4/+4 over and above normal bloodrage boost as long as both raging (song raging counts).
Eventually, you get Skald’s Vigor so you get fast heal = Str bonus which is 8)
You can maximize the bonus further with Extreme Mood Swings (+1 morale bonuses, 2 if drunk). Now odd Str scores get boosted too.
If you get drunk or cast thru a scroll Polypurpose Panacea (one option is drunk with no side effects) that's more.
Buff up with Bless, Inspire courage, Heroism (own spell, scroll, or ally spell)
Makes a strong warrior gish.
@ Starbuck_II I have been trying to figure out how your idea works, but I can't, so I decided to ask.
Specifically why do you need a level of Bloodrager? To get the familiar?
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I love 1/2 Orc Bloodrager 1/Skalds that give up first blood power for a valet familar, I take Amplified Rage.
That means we both get +4/+4 over and above normal bloodrage boost as long as both raging (song raging counts).
Eventually, you get Skald’s Vigor so you get fast heal = Str bonus which is 8)You can maximize the bonus further with Extreme Mood Swings (+1 morale bonuses, 2 if drunk). Now odd Str scores get boosted too.
If you get drunk or cast thru a scroll Polypurpose Panacea (one option is drunk with no side effects) that's more.
Buff up with Bless, Inspire courage, Heroism (own spell, scroll, or ally spell)
Makes a strong warrior gish.
I have a version of that I rarely played that went skald/cavalier (constable) so the whole party had amplified rage. Then warleader’s rage to make positioning easier and finally greater skald’s vigor. It was broken then, but next I found a familiar who could cast from a wand of moment of greatness.
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I love the idea of that archetype, but when trying to build one out it felt like there were barely any compatible discoveries, since most of them modify abilities you traded out.
It does restrict your path a bit, but I've found that growing outwards with the Alchemist is the better option, and leaving the construct companion to specialize in combat.
I am currently running one of these characters: android named Veyra and her homonculus, Lumen. The discoveries Veyra has are: Promethean Disciple (given by archetype), Tumor Familiar (Valet archetype, Ioun Wyrd), Chameleon, and Wings. Veyra also has the Chirurgeon and Wasteland Blightbreaker archetypes, and the VMC Bard option, making her an almost primarily healer focused, buffing second, scout third. She is equipped with a magic crossbow if she needs it. Mostly, she has her familiar delivering touch 'spell' healing for her (See Touch Injection, and her healing extracts count as having the Infusion discovery).
Her current build is Alchemist 9 / Evangelist of Brigh 1. She is going to finish out Evangelist, and may mix in a level of Technomancer. She'll meet the spellcasting requirement through the Spell Knowledge discovery, though she doesn't have a spellcasting class to progress, so more than 1 level is wasteful.