|
| 4 people marked this as a favorite. |
Shining Kingdoms gives us a new Wizard school, the School of Gates. I actually quite like this school, as both its focus spells seem very useful and it grants several school spells I quite like (Warping Pull and Echo Jump being stand outs).
I would like to focus in on the 1st level focus spell, Friendly Push, however. It reads:
FRIENDLY PUSH [one-action] FOCUS 1
UNCOMMON CONCENTRATE FOCUS MANIPULATE WIZARD
Range 60 feet; Targets 1 willing creature
Duration sustained up to 1 minuteYou exert magical force to propel a willing creature up to 10 feet in a straight line, including upward, though if they aren’t on solid ground or have another way to maintain their height (such as a fly Speed) when the movement ends, they fall. When you Sustain the spell, you can move them again or choose a new target within range and move them instead.
You can cast this spell on an unconscious ally, and if you do, the movement from this spell doesn’t trigger reactions.
Heightened (4th) The distance increases to 20 feet.
Heightened (7th) The distance increases to 30 feet.
Off the bat this has a lot going for it.
- It falls into that realm of focus spell where it can conceivably be used in every encounter for your entire adventuring career, and has a very iconic, "Build around me" feel.
- It can be sustained multiple times a round.
- Post 13th level, it can function as either a side-grade or upgrade to your own stride actions.
- Being a single action, there are several possible applications for the Ready Action
- It has a fun interaction with Catfall/Rolling Landing
- Probably some fun things can be done by a Liturgist Animist who poaches it.
Overall it can give your turns a very tactical "Chess master" feel with your party, and can have just some fun general interactions in several scenarios.
So What hijinx can we pull with it?
Party builds and combos, item interactions, everything is on the table.
It's very neat. I don't know how to build around it, but being able to move your friends 30ft in a direction, including up, is very nifty.
The amount of times I've seen a martial counting up the distance they can move and how to plan around where to start engaging the enemy is...well every battle. And this is a pretty cheap way (using a 3rd action each round to sustain) to help everyone move around the battlefield in a flexible manner. Being able to donate your 3rd action in a round to get to move a melee ally into position is incredibly useful.
It's an interesting question of how the specific reaction is worded.
Reactive Strike maybe doesn't work, because to your point the ally being moved isn't using any actions.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
The sentence about moving an unconscious ally is unnecessary because forced movement doesn’t provoke reactions like reactive strike. You can’t push an enemy who was in the zone of control of an ally with reactive strike and provoke a reaction, so this spell really shouldn’t either. That sentence will just make everyone think RAI the spell somehow does generally provoke, which is what would require an explanatory sentence, not the exception which isn’t an exception.
RAW should be clear enough the spell isn’t a problem, but I foresee the potential of GMs taking that last sentence and interpreting it to somehow provoke RS, even though the trigger for RS is never activated.
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Even at first level it can effectively slow an enemy. If you make sure your turn is after a melee ally, but before the opponent he's fighting, you can shift your ally 10 feet away from their opponent, who then has to spend an action closing with them to continue the fight.
could be a good addition to the sniper duo build.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
The sentence about moving an unconscious ally is unnecessary because forced movement doesn’t provoke reactions like reactive strike. You can’t push an enemy who was in the zone of control of an ally with reactive strike and provoke a reaction, so this spell really shouldn’t either. That sentence will just make everyone think RAI the spell somehow does generally provoke, which is what would require an explanatory sentence, not the exception which isn’t an exception.
RAW should be clear enough the spell isn’t a problem, but I foresee the potential of GMs taking that last sentence and interpreting it to somehow provoke RS, even though the trigger for RS is never activated.
Well, it's an interesting thing, because Friendly Push would potentially trigger the Rogue's Reactive Pursuit. But to your point, forced movement doesn't usually trigger reactions but it's also normally used against an enemy and not on an ally. And on this board we've discussed scenarios where using things like reposition/shove on allies can lead to unbalanced scenarios, especially if it becomes a go to plan.
But Friendly Push only works on willing creatures (allies), and it specifies it doesn't trigger (on an unconscious ally) to make it moot about whether this actually counts as Forced Movement or not. So I do think including the statement explicitly is good, but I agree with you that it will make at least some GMs think about whether or not using it on a conscious ally provokes reactions (which is really a question of whether or not it counts as Forced Movement).
And I will go ahead and throw out there that I am a GM that says things like reposition and shove, when used on an ally, DO NOT count as forced movement (to avoid reactions). And I would likely rule the use of Friendly Push on a conscious ally isn't forced movement and thus provokes reactions.
As to reactive strike specifically, and many other reactions, they don't trigger because the target of the spell isn't spending any actions.
The rogue's reactive pursuit is like the one exception I can think of because it's reaction trigger is:"An adjacent foe moves away from you, and you can reach at least one space adjacent to the foe with a Stride action"
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
Even at first level it can effectively slow an enemy. If you make sure your turn is after a melee ally, but before the opponent he's fighting, you can shift your ally 10 feet away from their opponent, who then has to spend an action closing with them to continue the fight.
That also significantly helps teammates who have reach weapons and reactive strike. This makes the iconic fantasy duo, often found in literature - the martial traveling with an esteemed caster - much more synergistic. Yay, action economy!
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Ohhh, I somehow missed that this was sustained. With just the one use, it seemed like the usual Wizard "a little worse than a real focus spell", but this is great.
- Use this in a party with a Commander, and you can really start to arrange the battlefield to your liking.
- Effortless Concentration brings back the relevance of this at high levels, allowing a free scoot every round.
|
|
Ohhh, I somehow missed that this was sustained. With just the one use, it seemed like the usual Wizard "a little worse than a real focus spell", but this is great.
- Use this in a party with a Commander, and you can really start to arrange the battlefield to your liking.
- Effortless Concentration brings back the relevance of this at high levels, allowing a free scoot every round.
I do feel like this is a plant for Battlecry. The school overall has a lot of teleportation and movement options, all of which would be perfect for the more tactical lines of play that I think we are expecting there.
Effortless Concentration comes online just 3 levels after the 30ft movement is achieved, so the two work well.
Poaching Cackle from the Witch also opens it up a little as well, while getting an additional focus point.
The rogue's reactive pursuit is like the one exception I can think of because it's reaction trigger is:"An adjacent foe moves away from you, and you can reach at least one space adjacent to the foe with a Stride action"Yeah that seems to fit...for enemy rogues. Which are probably NPCs, and thus not built like PCs, and so may not have that feat. :) Party rogues couldn't use it to get in a free move, because their ally is not their foe.
But yes if your GM has an enemy rogue with that feat in melee combat with your ally, and you move that ally, then the way Reactive Pursuit is phrased, it looks like they could use it to keep pace.
It may still be good for shenanigans. I.e. to isolate the rogue from their allies, get your ally out of being flanked, force the rogue into the option of being somewhere they don't want to be or no longer be in melee range, etc.
Yeah, it's not likely to come up because NPC aren't typically the rogue class, and are even less likely to have Reactive Pursuit, but just pointing out the kind of scenario where it could come up (and mentioning that I don't know others). Someone could probably look at all the reactions written monsters have to see if they would trigger. They'd have to be written more like Reactive Pursuit, where it doesn't mention the target using an action, as opposed to being written like Reactive Strike (and probably most NPC reactions) that mention the target using an action.
Only usable on willing targets, plus the last sentence, would make me rule that this movement will provoke as normal, i.e. not following normal forced movement rules.
When an effect forces you to move, or if you start falling, the distance you move is defined by the effect that moved you, not by your Speed. Forced movement doesn't trigger reactions that are triggered by movement.My argument is very simple: Since this will only affect you if you're willing, the effect doesn't force you to do anything. You're free to reject it. Ergo, it's not Forced Movement.
That said, I hate that it doesn't say it more clearly and we have to infer rules.
--
As for shenanigans, this is a prime target for Effortless Concentration. Basically 1 free party Fly Action per round (even better than Fly due to being able to go 30ft up).
I rule the same way due to the same logic and the shenanigans that can happen around allowing either PCs (or NPCs) within the group to use allies 3rd actions to reposition them around the battlefield without risk. I don't allow that, and this wouldn't be an exception either.
But most reactions are written to require the target to expend an action, which in this case the target isn't doing and thus it's mostly not going to come up.
Wait, it that a decent Wizard focus spell? What a miracle. What the other one do?
The obvious stuff about reposition melee allies to putting them in front of the enemy or away to make foes have to spend an action to go after and also take out allies of the fireball area that you want to cast is a given.
I could probably do something with summoner + with wizard dedication with that focus spells.
A sustain focus spell with a useful 1A effect is wonderful. It raises the bar for wizard focus spells and is long overdue.
If your turn is after a martial, they can end their turn next to a foe more safely. You can move them back forcing the foe to waste an action reengaging. If it's a reach fighter, that opens up a reactive strike synergy. If it's a shield user, they can raise their shield for 3rd action, and you can scoot them away.
If no foes have a turn between you, you can move your martial into reach of a foe to let them start their turn attacking. No move action needed.
If someone is injured, you could move them back, possibly to a healer. Then you could also move someone into place to block the fire foe from reaching them.
It could constantly be a useful option.
In addition to pulling people out/into melee range, you could also use this to help someone kite in/out of the numerous concealment zone spells and effects, where crossing the boundary makes you concealed to everyone outside and vice versa. They spend one action crossing to safety or clarity and two actions attacking, you spend one action pulling them back to the concealment zone or pushing them out, depending. May require some delaying of iniative to synch things up properly and avoid leaving them hanging outside the concealment zone at the wrong time.
Wait, it that a decent Wizard focus spell? What a miracle. What the other one do?
According to a Reddit AMA guy with the book: "the advanced one lets you teleport after taking damage to move away and gain resistance to the
trigger equal to your level." (I haven't seen the range.)So kind of similar to the 6th level Volcanic Escape fire kineticist impulse, except you avoid rather than inflicting damage, and teleport instead of leap. Extremely similar to the SF2 playtest witchwarper feat 2 Predictive Positioning, with a 10 minute cooldown and a subclass lock.
Furthermore:
Curriculum cantrips: message, telekinetic hand; 1st: fleet step, lock, thoughtful gift (Player Core 2 253); 2nd: knock, warping pull U (page 149); 3rd: echo jump U (page 148), trade items U (page 149); 4th: flicker, translocate; 5th: king’s castle U (page 149), magic passage U; 6th: collective transposition (Player Core 2 243), teleport U; 7th: interplanar teleport U, planar seal U; 8th: quandary, sudden transposition U (page 149); 9th forest of gates U (page 148)
School Spells initial: friendly push U; advanced: rapid retreat U
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Wait, it that a decent Wizard focus spell? What a miracle. What the other one do?
According to a Reddit AMA guy with the book: "the advanced one lets you teleport after taking damage to move away and gain resistance to the
trigger equal to your level." (I haven't seen the range.)So kind of similar to the 6th level Volcanic Escape fire kineticist impulse, except you avoid rather than inflicting damage, and teleport instead of leap. Extremely similar to the SF2 playtest witchwarper feat 2 Predictive Positioning, with a 10 minute cooldown and a subclass lock.
Furthermore:
Curriculum cantrips: message, telekinetic hand; 1st: fleet step, lock, thoughtful gift (Player Core 2 253); 2nd: knock, warping pull U (page 149); 3rd: echo jump U (page 148), trade items U (page 149); 4th: flicker, translocate; 5th: king’s castle U (page 149), magic passage U; 6th: collective transposition (Player Core 2 243), teleport U; 7th: interplanar teleport U, planar seal U; 8th: quandary, sudden transposition U (page 149); 9th forest of gates U (page 148)
School Spells initial: friendly push U; advanced: rapid retreat U
Pretty much got it!
It’s a reaction teleport spell when triggers when you take damage from an attack or spell. Lets you teleport 20ft in the direction of your choice and grants you aforementioned resistance.
Schools of Gates looks like one of the best schools overall.
We also now have enough teleport spells to fill a personal staff.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I don't see any once per round limitations built into the spell's sustain text. Ergo, you could potentially move someone three times in a round, or move three people. Or four with Effortlesss Concentration!
|
|
I don't see any once per round limitations built into the spell's sustain text. Ergo, you could potentially move someone three times in a round, or move three people. Or four with Effortlesss Concentration!
This is my thinking as well. It can be sustained multiple times, up to four as you say (5 if we poach Cackle), allowing for you to potentially move your entire party about.
I'm eyeing this for the Commander when it comes out as well. Bring an ally into position for a formation, or whatever the release version may be called.
