Mythic Resistance

[Deriven Firelion]

How are you running this?

Quote:

Mythic Resistance (1st): The creature gains resistance to all Strikes made by non-mythic creatures equal to half its level. If it gains mythic resistance a second time, increase the resistance to its full level. Mythic weapons bypass this resistance even if the creature wielding them is not mythic.

If you are a mythic character, do you get to bypass it even if wielding non-mythic weapons?

What counts as a mythic creature? Anyone with mythic points?

This resistance seems pretty pointless if all you need is to be mythic to bypass it. It would make the creature stronger against non-mythic PCs with non-mythic weapons, but mythic PCs would ignore it given how it is written.

[YuriP]

I'm not running. Because currently the mythic rules are too problematic and the game runs better without them. :P

[NorrKnekten]

I think its fairly accurate what you have said.

Mythic PCs bypass it, Non-mythic PCs need Mythic Weapons to bypass it.

A Mythic Creature is either a PC with a Mythic Calling or a Creature with the mythic trait (most likely adjusted by a mythic template)
In a mythic campaign its absolutely useless against the PCs unless said PCs have companions or summons.

I honestly feel like they mostly included this because of the Mixed Play segment in Variant rules to have Mythic and Non-mythic PCs in the same party.

[shroudb]

I'm not running Mythic Resistance/Resilience because it's extremely unbalancing the game math to an unplayable degree.

Instead I've replaced them with custom houserules for the creatures that have them.

[Tridus]

Deriven Firelion wrote:

How are you running this?

Quote:

Mythic Resistance (1st): The creature gains resistance to all Strikes made by non-mythic creatures equal to half its level. If it gains mythic resistance a second time, increase the resistance to its full level. Mythic weapons bypass this resistance even if the creature wielding them is not mythic.

If you are a mythic character, do you get to bypass it even if wielding non-mythic weapons?

I don't see how it could be run any other way within the rules. It says "mythic creature" pretty clearly. Weapons are irrelevant to it if you meet that criteria.

Weapons only matter if it's a non-mythic creature that got a mythic weapon.

Quote:

What counts as a mythic creature? Anyone with mythic points?

RAW, it's anything "with mythic power". When PCs "gain mythic power", they're supposed to get a Calling and Rewrite Fate. So if you have that, you're definitely mythic.

Gaining mythic power appears to just be GM fiat declaring "you're mythic now", so its a "I know it when I see it" situation. But since you're supposed to get a Calling and mythic points at the same time if you're going by the rulebook, having one means you have the other.

Course if you're in some scenario that gives you a mythic ability temporarily for the scenario, are you mythic during that? Good question.

Quote:

This resistance seems pretty pointless if all you need is to be mythic to bypass it. It would make the creature stronger against non-mythic PCs with non-mythic weapons, but mythic PCs would ignore it given how it is written.

That's what happens, yes. It's a pretty nothingburger ability unless you're a PC with an animal companion/eidolon (though since eidolons are part of the Summoner you could maybe argue that one) in which case you're just stuck with it and are significantly hindered. The bypass methods don't even tend to work here, since an animal companion can't use mythic strike and can't wield a mythic weapon.

Meanwhile Mythic Resilience has no way to bypass it at all except targeting a different save, and there's creatures with multiples of that, so casters get to go through hoops to have to figure out what to target and work around it... and the one with Mythic Resilience x3 is just "you're playing support now, like it or not, this fight is for martials".

As written, I told my GM that if he ever runs a PF2 mythic game I'm playing a martial and I don't care if that means the party is 100% martials. The mythic deck is stacked too much in their direction.

[Lia Wynn]

I think that the entire point of Mythic Resistance is that non-mythic people have a hard or impossible time defeating a Mythic monster. They need a Mythic hero, or group, to help them.

Look at Beowulf. Grendel is a mythic monster and wipes out a whole long house of battle-hardened warriors. They were very skilled and experienced, and could do nothing against it.

Beowulf, who is literally a mythic hero in this tale, kills Grendel.

That's the point, I think, of Mythic Resistance, creating story elements that make the PCs into much larger than life heroes.

[thenobledrake]

I don't like the way that Mythic Resistance functions as written because it only functions if the GM is using Mythic for enemies but not also using Mythic for PCs.

So since I believe that not to be intended, as Mythic rules are presented as a game-wide toggle, I have to believe that the wording of "non-mythic creatures" is actually intended to be something else.

I've picked "non-mythic Strikes" as a thing to fill in. And in doing so have made it so that the typical play case of an enemy with Mythic Resistance is that they reduce damage of the characters fighting against them which gets overcome if the character has a mythic weapon (which they usually won't because of item level... because these rules are fairly poorly constructed in more than just this one place), or has used one of the available options to get Mythic Proficiency on the Strike they are making - but then doesn't also apply against spells which are already having enough trouble when they have to go up against Mythic Resilience so they don't need to also have Mythic Resistance affect them.

[NorrKnekten]

thenobledrake wrote:

I don't like the way that Mythic Resistance functions as written because it only functions if the GM is using Mythic for enemies but not also using Mythic for PCs.

So since I believe that not to be intended, as Mythic rules are presented as a game-wide toggle, I have to believe that the wording of "non-mythic creatures" is actually intended to be something else.

I've picked "non-mythic Strikes" as a thing to fill in. And in doing so have made it so that the typical play case of an enemy with Mythic Resistance is that they reduce damage of the characters fighting against them which gets overcome if the character has a mythic weapon (which they usually won't because of item level... because these rules are fairly poorly constructed in more than just this one place), or has used one of the available options to get Mythic Proficiency on the Strike they are making - but then doesn't also apply against spells which are already having enough trouble when they have to go up against Mythic Resilience so they don't need to also have Mythic Resistance affect them.

There is a counterpoint to this in that they absolutely intended for parties where only some PCs are mythic as seen in the Mixed Play Variant Rule

[shroudb]

NorrKnekten wrote:

thenobledrake wrote:

I don't like the way that Mythic Resistance functions as written because it only functions if the GM is using Mythic for enemies but not also using Mythic for PCs.

So since I believe that not to be intended, as Mythic rules are presented as a game-wide toggle, I have to believe that the wording of "non-mythic creatures" is actually intended to be something else.

I've picked "non-mythic Strikes" as a thing to fill in. And in doing so have made it so that the typical play case of an enemy with Mythic Resistance is that they reduce damage of the characters fighting against them which gets overcome if the character has a mythic weapon (which they usually won't because of item level... because these rules are fairly poorly constructed in more than just this one place), or has used one of the available options to get Mythic Proficiency on the Strike they are making - but then doesn't also apply against spells which are already having enough trouble when they have to go up against Mythic Resilience so they don't need to also have Mythic Resistance affect them.

There is a counterpoint to this in that they absolutely intended for parties where only some PCs are mythic as seen in the Mixed Play Variant Rule

Counter-counterpoint, it seems hard to accept that a core ability of creatures is only intended to be something used in a Variant rule.

If it was indeed something for a variant rule, it would be presented in that area rather than in the fundamental creature building rules.

[NorrKnekten]

Which is fair enough, The counterpoint wasn't "its only for that kind of variant rule". Rather that they covered for scenarios where other creatures assist the PCs, Mixed Play, and when the characters have yet to recieve their mythic power.

Starting off at level 1 with your mythic power isn't presented as a default but rather gained after slaying a mythic creature, mythic deed or other event the GM decides upon. I just don't think "Mythic is a game-wide toggle" as being an accurate statement and that GMs can use mythic creatures as important antagonists in a non-mythic game.

I don't like how the ability becomes useless after the PCs gain mythic powers but I also don't like how mythic resistance is purely against strikes either, But it is hard to argue that Mythic Creatures were meant only go up against Mythic PCs and NPCs.

Edit: Actually... Someone pointed out to me the existance of Mythic Strike, Which makes absolutely no sense in a world where Mythic Resistance doesn't apply against strikes from mythic creatures. Errata worthy perhaps?

[thenobledrake]

NorrKnekten wrote:

There is a counterpoint to this in that they absolutely intended for parties where only some PCs are mythic as seen in the Mixed Play Variant Rule

If that were a genuine intention and not a "I dunno, maybe you'd do this" half-mention that doesn't even cover all the ins and outs of what it mentions... it would be in the book itself, not the random extra PDF.