Thematically, this is the intention of the advanced slayer talent: Assassinate.
Assassinate (Ex) (Advanced Class Guide pg. 54): A slayer with this advanced talent can kill foes that are unable to defend themselves. To attempt to assassinate a target, the slayer must first study his target for 1 round as a standard action. On the following round, if the slayer makes a sneak attack against the target and that target is denied its Dexterity bonus to AC, the sneak attack has the additional effect of possibly killing the target. This attempt automatically fails if the target recognizes the slayer as an enemy. If the sneak attack is successful, the target must attempt a Fortitude saving throw with a DC equal to 10 + 1/2 the slayer’s level + the slayer’s Intelligence modifier. If the target fails this save, it dies; otherwise, the target takes the sneak attack damage as normal and is then immune to that slayer’s assassinate ability for 24 hours.
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vital strike c
Feat chain with a+5 oversized, impact, furious, butchers axe, while enlarged. use 2 hand fighter archetype and titan mauler barbarian.
3d6 base becomes 8d6 after enlarged, over sided, and impact
greater vital strike. 32d6.
2 hand fighter adds 2x str mod to damage 40str for easy math (+30).
power attack+ furious focus + vital strike for 32d6+55ish.
use cyclops helm for nat 20. can only fail confirm on nat 1.
Or use furious finish for max damage guaranteed
deal maxxed 247ish damage from a +7 weapon (screw their DR) or 741ish maxxed crit
Instead of focusing everything on one single game mechanic the best build will have multiple game mechanics. Melkiador’s suggestion of the slayers assassinate talent is spot on. The problem is you are only looking at the description of the assassinate talent and ignoring everything else.
In order to use assassinate against a target your attack has to be a sneak attack. That means the slayer is getting his sneak attack damage on the attack. Slayers are also a full BAB class with proficiency with martial weapons. That means they can use a two-handed weapon with a high critical hit range and decent damage. They also get the benefit of the higher BAB with Power attack. Their sneak attack dice is lower than a rogues, but they can take accomplish sneak attacker to boost that up a little. The feat Improved critical will improve the threat range to 15-20.
At 10th level a slayer with an 18 STR will be doing2d4+15 damage plus 4d6 sneak attack. Slayers also get studied strike which will boost the damage to 2d4+18 plus 4d6 sneak attack. Studied strike also increases the DC of any slayer talents including assassinate. The DC of assassinate is boosted by the slayers INT bonus. Being a skill based martial class the slayer should be putting at least a few points into INT and can pick up a headband to further boost that. Assuming at least a 14 INT with the headband the DC of the slayers assassinate is going to be at least 20.
As the slayer levels up so do his abilities. By 15th level the slayer will also increase. At 15th level your damage will be 2d4+22 plus 6d6 in sneak attack and the DC of the assassinate will be at least 23. This is also without factoring in any magic weapon or other feats.
Slayers can also get poison use and a few other talents to boost poison. Poison may be fairly week in Pathfinder, but adding this to what he is already doing adds one more layer the target has to deal with. Now on top of having to make the Fort save for the assassination the target also has to make another save vs poison.
For assassination, the enemy is probably flat footed anyway. If you want to assassinate round after round, that’s not exactly in the spirit of the assassin you proposed who kills their target in one hit.
It seems more like you really want a single big hit guy, than an assassin though. In that case, you should probably stick with a version of vital strike.
Any feat that increases damage or your chance to hit and or critical would be good for this build. Furious Focus would eliminate the penalty to hit on the first hit. Since the conformation roll for a critical hit uses the same bonus it also increases the chance of a critical hit.
The Talent Surprise Attacks means your target will always be flatfooted during the surprise round. If you take the poison use talent, focused Poison can increase the DC of the save of the poison. Hunters Surprise will allow you to apply your sneak attack damage to all attacks until the end of your next turn even if they are not flanked or flatfooted.
You should also be taking feats and talents that improve you chance of surprising your target. Things like Fast Stealth, Skill Focus Stealth, Hide in Plain Sight would also be useful.
15th level monk with Quivering Palm - 1 hit, then will the opponent dead.
The monk’s quivering palm is similar to the slayers assassinate ability. While the monk will probably have a higher WIS than the slayer does INT, the slayers studied target will more than likely make up the difference. The slayer can get assassinate 5 levels earlier and has a better chance of killing the target if they make the save.
At 14th level the slayer gets Quarry. Quarry automatically confirms critical hits on the quarry. If the slayer is using a high threat weapon this is a huge advantage. At 19th level selecting the quarry is a free action instead of standard.
If you want to play an assassin the slayer is going to be your best choice.
the slayers studied target will more than likely make up the differenceSomeone unfamiliar with Slayer may miss that.
The DCs of slayer class abilities against that opponent increase by 1... At 5th, 10th, 15th, and 20th levels, the bonuses on weapon attack rolls, damage rolls, and skill checks and to slayer DCs against a studied target increase by 1.
So, at level 10 that DC is going to get +3 from the Studied Target bonus.
You can also use Lenses of the Predator's Gaze to increase the bonuses by 1. You may also consider the Headsman's Blade to increase the DC by 2, but that's pretty niche and requires some uncertainties to increase the enhancement bonus. Focused Target can increase the bonus too, but it may not fit into your build.
The death attack also requires 3 rounds of study vs 1 for the slayer. The damage from hidden strike is situational and can either be better or slightly worse than the slayers. Their studied strike is much weaker than the slayers. At 10th level the vigilante has a +1 bonus that and can study 2 targets, the Slayer gets a +3 and can have 3 targets. The Slayer also gets full BAB compared to the vigilantes medium BAB. The higher BAB not only increases the chance to hit, it also increases the bonus from power attack and gives him earlier access to feats like improved critical.
The fact that the death attack is CHA based is also a negative, because it makes the character more M.A.D.. INT gives extra skill points which is going to be important for an assassin. The slayer does not really need CHA that much so can leave it at 10 or even dump it. If the vigilante dumps INT he loses skill points.
At 10th level the slayer attacking with a falchion will be + 11/+6 to hit dealing 2d4+13 damage with a 15-20 chance to threaten a critical hit. The vigilante will be +7/+2 dealing 2d4+8 with a threat range of 18-20. The DC for the assassinate/death attack will be 20 for the slayer vs 18 for the vigilante. This is assuming a 13 STR no magic weapons with the slayer having a14 INT and the vigilante having a 14 CHA. The slayer is obviously superior at taking down the target in one hit, which is what the OP wants to be able to do.
You did not bother to read my earlier post; if you did you would see where some of my assumptions come from. My build is also designed so that even if the target makes it save the still take considerable damage. The vigilante falls short in that respect.
The feat accomplished sneak attack gives the slayer and extra dice. That means at 10th level he gets 4d6 sneak attack not 3d6. The average damage from 4d6 is 14 points which is higher than the average of 12.5 (the average of 5d4). Hidden Strike is not sneak attack so the vigilante does not benefit from it even if they could take it.
The Slayer is getting +11/+6 to hit, but what is important is the +11. These numbers came from the idea that both characters have at least a 13 STR and power attack. These assumptions are designed to see the effect of the build in a more neutral manner. In reality the slayer will have a much higher STR, and the numbers will be even higher especially the damage.
Mighty Ambush does not kill the target it knocks it out. The original poster wanted to be able to KILL his target or seriously damage them with one hit. Knocking them out does not accomplish that goal. Don’t get me wrong this does neutralize the target but killing him will require another attack at minimum. Considering the slayer is doing so much more damage on a hit this is likely to take at least another round to be able to actually kill the target.
If I am including magic items, I would go with a headband of INT to increase the INT to 16 and a headsman’s blade to increase the DC of the assassinate and gain the keen enchantment. I will also take focused target to further increase the DC of the assassinate. That will put the DC up to 25 not 21.
The slayer can also take poison use and focused poison. At this level I can sacrifice two targets to increase the DC of the poison by 2. If I use Deathblade it deals 1d3 Con damage for up to 6 rounds with a DC of 22 instead of 20(due to focused poison).
I will be doing an average of 42 damage (70 average for a critical hit) and the target will have to make a DC 25 Fort save or die. If the target makes that save, they will have to make saves for the next 6 rounds or take 1d3 con damage per missed saving throw until they make 2 saves. This is with a STR of 20 (with a belt of STR +2). I switched to the greatsword so the threat range is only 17-20 with keen.
Also, at level 6 the DC of the death attack is so low that it is not that much of a threat.
The monk’s quivering palm is similar to the slayers assassinate ability. While the monk will probably have a higher WIS than the slayer does INT, the slayers studied target will more than likely make up the difference. The slayer can get assassinate 5 levels earlier and has a better chance of killing the target if they make the save.
At 14th level the slayer gets Quarry. Quarry automatically confirms critical hits on the quarry. If the slayer is using a high threat weapon this is a huge advantage. At 19th level selecting the quarry is a free action instead of standard.
If you want to play an assassin the slayer is going to be your best choice.
just throwing out another option of something that can kill in one hit.
I did most of the stuff off the top of my head instead of doing a full build. When I took the time to sit down and flesh out the build, I was able to get the characters stealth up to a +28 and take Hellcat Stealth. That gives me the ability to use stealth in bright light and while under direct observation by taking a -10 penalty. I also have Fast Stealth which means I can move at full speed and take no penalty to stealth. When the character can use stealth while standing right in front of his target why does he need social talents to assassinate.
The extra skill levels from INT means I can max out more skills, so the character is not without social skills. He was able to get a +21 (+24 with studied target) on bluff and a +25 on disguise (with a hat of disguise). While the disguise may not be as high as the vigilantes it is probably high enough to get the job done.
The BAB is important because it is adding an extra 9 points of damage before multiplying for a critical hit. It also ensures that he can actually hit his target and improves his chance of confirming his critical hit. As long as he does not roll a 1, he cannot miss a target with an AC 23 or less. He has a 50% chance to hit an AC 32 at 10th level. Considering that when he is using his assassinate ability the targets will often be flatfooted that means he rarely misses. Basically, the slayer has the same chance to hit when using power attack that the vigilante has without using it.
You claim the vigilante will be doing more damage but have yet to give an example of his damage. Your maximum hidden strike damage is only 16 points more than the slayers max sneak attack. The average damage is only 8.5 higher than the slayer. Power Attack more than makes up for that and is multiplied on a critical hit. I am also getting damage from STR for using a two-handed weapon. If the vigilante is DEX based, he will not be able to match the damage from STR and Power Attack.
You are making claims but not backing them up. Also, your lower chance to hit means that your failure rate is higher than the slayer. You don’t do any damage when you miss, and the target does not need to make a save.
Base the build on a 10th level using a 25 point buy and use the APB rules to keep things simple. Since the OP stated he wants to kill or seriously injure the target non-lethal damage does not count.
I already pointed out hidden strike is not sneak attack, but you disputed that.
Unnamed Hero
Human slayer 10 ( Pathfinder RPG Advanced Class Guide 53)
NE Medium humanoid (human)
Init +2; Senses Perception +17
—————
Defense
—————
AC 23, touch 14, flat-footed 21 (+8 armor, +2 deflection, +2 Dex, +1 natural)
hp 84 (10d10+20)
Sanity 36, threshhold 2, edge 18
Fort +12, Ref +12, Will +10
—————
Offense
—————
Speed 30 ft.
Melee headsman's blade +21/+13 (2d6+22/17-20 plus 4d6 sneak attack)
Special Attacks sneak attack +4d6, studied target +3 (3rd, swift action)
—————
Statistics
—————
Str 22, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 16, Wis 12, Cha 8
Base Atk +10; CMB +17; CMD 30
Feats Accomplished Sneak Attacker, Focused Target, Furious Focus APG, Hellcat Stealth, Iron Will, Power
Attack, Skill Focus (Bluff), Skill Focus (Stealth), Stealthy
Traits armor expert, indomitable faith
Skills Acrobatics +10, Bluff +21, Climb +14, Disguise +25, Escape Artist +4, Heal +9, Intimidate +15,
Knowledge (dungeoneering) +14, Knowledge (geography) +14, Knowledge (local) +14, Perception +17,
Sense Motive +17, Stealth +33, Survival +12, Swim +14
Languages Common
SQ combat style (two-handed weapon APG), slayer talents (assassinate [DC 22] UC, fast stealth, focused
poison, poison use ACG, ranger combat style ACG, ranger combat style ACG), stalker, track +5
Combat Gear deathblade; Other Gear mwk shadow mithral breastplate, headsman's blade ACG, hat of
disguise, 7,600 gp
—————
Special Abilities
—————
Assassinate (DC 22) (Ex) Can kill unaware foe with a prepared sneak attack (Fort neg).
Fast Stealth (Ex) Move at full speed while using the Stealth skill at no penalty.
Focused Poison (Ex) Reduce number of studied targets to increase poison DC by 1 each.
Focused Target When study foe, maintain less for +1 to att/dam/skill/DC. No benefit can be chosen
twice.
Furious Focus If you are wielding a weapon in two hands, ignore the penalty for your first attack of each
turn.
Hellcat Stealth You may make Stealth checks in normal or bright light even when observed, but at a -10
penalty.
Poison Use (Ex) Can't accidently poison self when applying poison to a weapon.
Power Attack -3/+6 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.
Sneak Attack +4d6 Attacks deal extra dam if flank foe or if foe is flat-footed.
Stalker (Ex) Studied target bonus applies to Disguise, Intimidate, and Stealth as well.
Studied Target +3 (swift action, 1 at a time) (Ex) Study foe as a Swift action, gain +3 to att/dam &
some skills vs. them.
Track +5 Add the listed bonus to Survival checks made to track.
Here is the full build for the slayer. The DC of the Assassinate ability is not factoring in the Headsman's Blade, so it should be 24 not 22 and the DC of the poison should be 22 due to focused poison.
You are two over in your social talents, Calling Card replaces your 7tt level social talent and you don’t the FCB is 1/6 of a social talent so you don’t gain the second from FCB until 6th level. In all honesty you are one short for vigilante talents.
You are also ignoring the one hit stipulation and counting on an extra round to finish of your target. If that is the case it is only fair to allow the slayer two rounds as well. That means he gets to use at least one full attack and a single attack in the first round. This is assuming the character has to move into position to attack in the first round.
I am not sure how you are getting your bonus to hit so high. If you are assuming any bonuses to hit from positioning or flanking the slayer will get the same. If there is some other bonus to hit the vigilante is getting, please document that. By my calculations you should be +17 to hit with the scimitar and doing 1d4+9 +5d8 for damage with a threat range of 18-20. This is far below the 42 you were claiming.
You also seem to be assuming the target is taking has gotten the shaken condition from frightening ambush. Since that is a feat there is nothing preventing the slayer from taking it and I have adjusted my build to swap out accomplished sneak attack for frightening ambush. I also swapped out stealthy for intimidating powers and changed skill focus buff to skill focus intimidate. This does drop his bluff to +15 and his stealth to +29 but raises his intimidate to +27.
I posted the full build including all skills, can you do the same?
Much of your build is reliant on magic items that either character can use so I adjusted my build. You also insist on factoring in knocking the target out so I will also adjust my build to be able to do so.
Taking Knock-Out Blow gives me the ability to forge sneak attack damage to cause the target to have to make a save or be knocked out. Since my build does not really rely on sneak attack damage it only reduces the damage by about 10 points. This still leaves the character doing more damage than the vigilante. The Lenses of the predator’s gaze is a nice item and actually benefits the slayer as much as it does the vigilante, so I downgraded his armor to a chain shirt to be able to afford it. This also removed the need for the armor expert trait. I took bruising intellect instead to be able to use INT for intimidate.
You are also forgetting to factor in the poison on the slayers attack. I used two slayer talents and bought the poison, so this should be factored in.
My bonus to hit has increased to +22/+14 and the damage is now 2d6+23. When he is not using Knock-Out Blow he deals 3d6 extra for sneak attack. When he attacks his target also has to make a DC 25 save vs to avoid death, and a DC 23 save or be knocked uncurious, and needs to make DC 22 save each round or take 1d3 CON damage this continues until he makes 2 saves. Since the CON damage reduces your FORT saves each failure on the average reduces the targets FORT save by 1 and loses HP equal to its HD. Those numbers do not include the target having the shaken condition which gives a -2 penalty on all saves. On a critical hit My build will be doing at least 50 HP which means the if the target has less than 100 HP, he has to make a DC 15 save (at -2 for shaken) or die due to massive damage. Admittedly that save is fairly easy, but anyone rolling a 1 on that will die.
As to the action economy the slayer does not need to use a coup de grace on the second round. He has high bonus to hit and does a lot of damage so he can simply take a full attack. The -9 on the opponents AC is going to mean he will hit with both attacks, which will do more damage than a coup de grace. Keep in mind that the damage from precision damage is not multiplied on a c critical hit, but you will get it on each attack of a full attack. Your character would be better of using a full attack instead of the coup de grace.
You also claimed the vigilante would have the advantage in social situations but spent all your skill points on combat skills. I did not see anything for things like knowledge local, knowledge nobility, sense motive. Your character is also lacking in some combat skill. You make no mention of climb, perception, or swim. Without those skills you will be at a real disadvantage.
You build is not bad, but to me it is not as strong for what the OP was asking for.
You are mistaken about Knock-Out Blow being incompatible with assassinate. Knock-Out Blow sates that it adds to sneak attack and only one such talent can be applied. All Talents that have that restriction have that disclaimer in the description. Assassinate does not have the disclaimer so is no subject to it.
The slayer still has the advantage on being able to hit and the DC of his abilities. Against at target with an AC of 25 and a FORT save of +12 the slayers assassinate will work 55.25% if the target does not have the shaken condition, with the shaken condition it goes up to 63.75%. The vigilante has 38.5% chance without the shaken condition and a 52.5% with the shaken condition. The slayers also have a decent chance of dealing more than 50 HP of damage. With the sneak attack he has about 29.75% chance of rolling higher than 50 HP, without the sneak attack it drops to about 20% and requiring a save due to massive damage. That gives any first strike between a 2% =5.95% chance of killing a target with 100 HP or less.
So, the slayer has a 69.7% chance to outright kill any target with an AC of25 or less, and fortitude save of +12 or less with 100 or fewer HP that is shaken. Considering skills do not fail on a 1 and the slayer has a+32 bonus to intimidate that means any target with that HD and WIS modifier is less than 23 will be shaken unless they are immune. Don’t forget that the vigilante is small so will be taking a -4 penalty on intimidate vs medium creatures. As the targets AC and saves go up these numbers will decrease, but they will always be higher than the vigilante.
After the first target the slayer’s DPR is 58.24 per round. The vigilante even with hidden strike of 5d8 on each attack has a DPR of 45.31 with a full attack, or a 48.5 with a coup de grace. Since most of the vigilante’s damage is coming from hidden strike the coup de grace is actually not that effective. If the vigilante had better base damage it might be different, but at 1d4 +11 the critical hit simply does not mean anything.
I am working on a full write up of both builds but do not have your skill point distribution. Using Hero Labs tends to reduce mistakes.
