i missed that. i was too occupied with the movement advantage
dipping willy nilly isnt good of course but the brawler has really bad proficiency and battle dancer also loses the AC bonus. so dipping for better armor was already a good idea
accounting for shield proficiency a dip into fighter would be worth 4 feats for the battle dancer. so id definitely start with that
you want to be a battle dancer. with the ability to move 5 ft before each strike you can position yourself so that you bull rush enemies into objects even while full attacking. this triggers the forced prone effect of Shield Slam in addition to Crushing Impact
battle dancer crushing impact
so if you Shield Slam an enemy into a wall, they first take damage from your shield (1d6+STR+PA) then automatic dmg equal to your unarmed strike (1d8+STR+PA) thanks to Crushing Impact, followed by a swift action from Spiked Destroyer (1d6+STR+PA). finally they are knocked prone due to Shield Slam
as a lv 7 brawler you would have enough feats to take Shield Slam, Crushing Impact, and Spiked Destroyer. or you could flex into Crushing Impact when you fight in cramped areas. but id dip a level into something with better armor proficiency since youre otherwise stuck with light armor
it doesnt show up in the teamwork (or betrayal) categories on archives. and afaik the original source material never called it a teamwork feat.
the issue lies with the SRD which youre using which has it show up in the teamwork list. but even then, when you click on the feat you can see that it doesnt have the "teamwork" tag
swarm shifter is a bit odd, yeah. you transform into a swarm but you keep your humanoid form because it isnt a polymorph effect. the only thing that changes is that you increase in size, get +2 natural armor, and can occupy the space of creatures. you dont even get any natural attack
youre still capable of emotion and thought because the ability doesnt make you mindless. imagine having a class feature that turns you into a NPC
i meant more like replacing any of their other combat feats to make space for Unsanctioned Knowledge. like having Sundering Strike through the training enchantment
i get what youre saying but "the martial" is not a role. its a theme
when people ask for advice the absolute most common terms i hear are "support/buffer", "social", "tank", "healer", "skillmonkey", "frontliner", "debuffer", and so on. and very often people have already chosen a class which they think fulfill their primary roles best. so when people ask for a "healer bard" theyve already decided on the support and skillmonkey roles.
the big issue with trying to ground everything in metrics is the approachability of the system. people keep repeating the class tier system despite its faults (like people point out in Joynts thread) because its so simple. if i tell someone that the rogue has a D2 value of 2.13 assuming usual feats and CR distribution theyll have no clue what im talking about
a bit late to the party, but regarding the improved critical discussion
-you could just buy a training enchantment to make space for another feat. the question then becomes "is this feat better than +1 att dmg?"
-if youre using Sundering Strike you do not want to use Bless Weapon. you do not get the free sunder unless you beat their CMD with your confirmation roll. and when youre using Bless Weapon you do not get the chance because the entire confirmation roll is circumvented
(even if we say your confirmation= their AC, that wont work because their CMD is usually a lot higher than that)
though i dont think id take unsanctioned knowledge unless the party was very lacking in casters. its also a feat that gets better as you level while OP asked for a lv 5 paladin
if i was supposed to play a royal heir to an existing kingdom id go with vigilante.
- dual identity will allow you to avoid the continuous and embarrasing political scandal when the royal heir is found murdering civilians in another city-state.
- Renown and its upgrades like Celebrity Perks and Instant Recognition are great for getting a mechanical reflection of your heritage.
- Loyal Aid and Always Prepared can both be reflavored as being due to your political connections. the stash you create with Always Prepared are the funds from an embassy or nobleman, and the loyal allies are your countrymen.
alternatively, id go with sworn of the eldest + monster tactician inquisitor and max CHA. instead of being a well known royal heir id go with the "survived assassination, now in exile" backstory.
worship Count Ranalc and take the Nameless One feat (https://aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Nameless%20One). this gives you the perfect "count of monte cristo" flavor as you work towards taking revenge on those who forced you into exile all those years ago, believing you to be dead until you reveal your true identity at the pivotal dramatic moment.
great social capabilities and like royalty your true worth lies in your ability to lead, not to fight.
id begin with dividing the roles into five categories. i think these are the roles i most frequently see pop up.
spoiler:
the HAMMER
This role is about striking hard and striking true. From a pure combat perspective, how good is the class at actually dealing consistent damage? Here we find the traditional martials such as Fighter and Barbarian.
the DEFENDER
How good are you at soaking punishment for your party? This role is often combined with the HAMMER but exceptions occur frequently. Good saves, high AC, self-heal and condition removal are important factors here. Paladin is a perfect example.
the CONTROL
We are still talking combat here so this is battlefield control. Your ability to change the game state during combat. Spellcasters rank high here with staples such as Grease, Obscuring Mist, and Color Spray. But we also find those with other ways to inflict conditions.
the HEALER
This is about the three categories of healing. Preventative, active, and mending. A wand of CLW will top you up between encounters but it wont pull the HAMMER back from the brink of death during combat, or make the party immune to negative levels before you venture into a vampire den. Condition removal is absolutely crucial here.
the PROBLEM SOLVER
This is a very broad role and also the most powerful because here we see the potential to circumvent combat entirely. Skillsets such as social, stealth, and knowledge belong here. But more commonly this role is defined by spellcasting, especially at high levels. Do note that this category also involves combat as in the case when a wizard casts Fly on a fighter to enable them.
someone with more imagination is free to come up with better names so that an acronym is possible. HDCHP doesnt exactly roll off the tongue. to give an example in practical terms (rated from 1-5) here is how id rate the slayer and bard in their potential for the different roles at mid levels.
"I'm kinda all fighter out at moment but want to play an atypical dwarf who is like moving fortress"
sounds like you would be interested in the Mobile Fortress feat
https://aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Mobile%20Fortress
you need to be using a tower shield (so no bashing) but its imo the best way to truly get the "weapon-n-shield" fantasy in pathfinder. there are thousands of ways to get bonus AC and it all kinda floats together. but when youre using Mobile Fortress to set down total cover for yourself and allies hiding behind you, it really feels like having a shield matters
for an atypical dwarf you may want bloodrager. youll be fighting against the CHA penalty but a starting 12 is fine for a 4th spell levlel caster. then you could go arcane bloodline for miss chance and energy resistance, or abyssal for auto-enlarge (which allows another ally to hide behind you with Mobile Fortress)
whops, gave the slayer 63% instead of 66.5. crazy how there is no way to edit posts. anyways you made me realize how big an impact frightening ambush really has so id def keep it
imo there is no contest that a serial killer is the better ASSASSIN. beyond the 74% vs 66.5% comparison you simply just have so many tools at your disposal.
* you dont ping evil and you cant be divined because of your social identity.
* Charming (from archetype), mockingbird, social grace, and hidden magic are excellent for intrigue/social infiltration.
* you pierce a lot of defenses (uncanny dodge, death effect immunity, SA negation) that the slayer cant handle.
* silent dispatch is a godsend for assassinations. the slayer isnt even in the same league until they get Silent Kill at lv 12-13. which means nine entire levels chasing the vigilantes heels.
if you want to kill the ogre king camping outside the city walls, send the slayer and watch the havoc unfold.
if you want to kill the baron without anyone sounding the alarm or pinning it on you, send the vigilante.
Knock-out wont work because knock-out specifically says that you dont trigger anything that requires you to deal sneak attack damage when using it. And assassinate can only be used when dealing SA. But either way, its a once per day ability so i think we can leave it at that.
Your choice of AC looks high considering theyre flat-footed, and i dont think youre accounting for mighty ambush. Lowering AC to 22 for loss of dex and applying mighy ambush gives me this:
:
slayer (+22 hit, DC 25): 0.95*0.6 = 57%
serial killer (+19 hit, DC 22, DC 23): 0.9*(1-0.55*0.5) = 65%
(Technically 64% since they can ace the coup de grace save)
If theyre shaken, this jumps to 63% for the slayer and 74% for the serial killer.
Massive dmg is an optional rule ive never played with. is it that common?
Regarding demoralize, creepy doll actually allows you to ignore the size penalty vs humanoids, which is cool. But the demoralize DC stays consistent across CR (no huge jumps like feint), and with skill familiarity a vigilante can take 10 on the check. So for example, if your slayer wants to demoralize a larger nonhumanoid with 12 hd and 19 wisdom they need a +29 bonus to guarantee the check. The vigilante only needs +20.
//
"After the first target the slayer’s DPR is 58.24 per round. The vigilante even with hidden strike of 5d8 on each attack has a DPR of 45.31 with a full attack, or a 48.5 with a coup de grace. Since most of the vigilante’s damage is coming from hidden strike the coup de grace is actually not that effective. If the vigilante had better base damage it might be different, but at 1d4 +11 the critical hit simply does not mean anything."
The big, huge, massive, important advantage of Up Close and Personal is that it is NOT A STANDARD ACTION. You can combine it with Throat Slicer, using a wand charge, or just the attack action. Ignoring crits on the first hit, the vigilantes DPR is 76.5 if they get to use UCaP + Throat Slicer. But at that point the target is dead with 95% certainty so DPR doesnt matter.
With frightening ambush the serial killer has a 74% chance to outright kill an enemy in the surprise round.
And with silent dispatch (or just winning initiative) they have a 54% chance of outright killing another enemy in round 2. This increases to 74% if the first enemy didn't need to be coup-de-graced.
In round 3 however, their combat potential drops significantly as they run out of studied targets and nobody is flat-footed for frightening ambush.
"I am working on a full write up of both builds but do not have your skill point distribution. Using Hero Labs tends to reduce mistakes."
"Taking Knock-Out Blow gives me the ability to forge sneak attack damage to cause the target to have to make a save or be knocked out"
"As to the action economy the slayer does not need to use a coup de grace on the second round. He has high bonus to hit and does a lot of damage so he can simply take a full attack. "
i looked closer at knock-out blow and beyond being once per day it is incompatible with assassinate. knock-out says it doesnt work with effects that triggers when you deal SA, and assassinate requires you to deal SA.
your slayer is lining up for the perfect kill, and then they turn into a normal full attacking martial for the rest of the encounter. the difference between the slayer and the serial killer is that the vigilante is a SERIAL killer. they can use mighty ambush every single round which means that they are a "one strike" build every single round.
and thats exactly what OP wanted. a one strike build. if the slayer starts full attacking in round 2 then they cease to be a one strike build
i apologize. you were actually right about me having too many social talents. i said that you should have read the archetype when i myself missed the loss of the 9th lv social talent. and with hellcat stealth the slayer can keep stealth-attacking in combat to secure your SA, as long as you succeed at the -10 penalty stealth check
new/fixed serial killer:
halfling serial killer vigilante 10
Str 8, Dex 18+1+1+2, Con 14, Int 12, Wis 8, Cha 18+2
ART
creepy doll, underfoot dodger
traits
wild shadow (urban), crowd dodger
talents
1 social grace (bluff, diplomacy, disguise)
2 silent dispatch
3 notorious fool -> skill familiarity*
4 -
5 mockingbird (+10 to disguise checks)
6 - FCB: hidden magic
7 -
8 up close and personal
9 -
10 mighty ambush
*a shifting jerkin is used to replace notorious fool at lv 9. its not strictly needed, and you would get it at lv 11, it just speeds up combat a whole lot if you dont need to roll your acrobatics or stealth all the time
magic gear
shifting jerkin, good shadow armor, buckler, scimitar (+2 from ABP), belt of tumbling, sandals of quick reaction, hat of disguise, wand of inflict pain
OFFENSE
attack: 7 BAB +6 DEX +2 ST +2 weapon + 1 small +1 possessed hand = +19
dmg: 1d4 +6 DEX +2 ST +2 weapon +1 possessed hand +5d8 hidden strike = 36
charm DC 20+2
death attack DC 20+2
mighty ambush DC 21+2
SKILLS
acrobatics: +36 (for moving through space)
bluff: +24
diplomacy: +22
stealth: +28
disguise (5 ranks): +27, (+37 with hat of disguise, +47 with seamless disguise)
UMD (2 ranks): +10 (skill familiarity allows us to always succeed on wand checks)
23 skill ranks left.
the lenses and daredevil boots are gone. they were limited in uses per day of which you had none so that would not be fair. were now instead using sandals of quick reaction for the ability to take a move and standard action in the surprise round. i also replaced frightening ambush with possessed hand to account for the loss of studied target
combat routine:
STRATEGY 1
begin with Up Close and Personal (move+swift) and see if they survive the death attack. if they die, they die. if they succeed->fail, slit their throat (standard). nobody hears anything because of silent dispatch.
STRATEGY 2
use a wand charge (standard) to penalize -4 on their saves, and then Up Close and Personal. good against a foe with massive fort save, but delays the coup the grace by a round if you need to slit their throat. the next round you can both slit their throat and mighty ambush another foe
STRATEGY 3 (two death attacks)
this requires perfect timing and silent dispatch, but you can prepare your death attack for three rounds and while the timer runs out you start preparing a death attack against a second foe. then you use Up Close and Personal (move+swift) on the first foe (forcing two saves), and your standard to finish preparing the death attack. then in the next round, you use death attack and mighty ambush again
"You are also ignoring the one hit stipulation and counting on an extra round to finish of your target. If that is the case it is only fair to allow the slayer two rounds as well. That means he gets to use at least one full attack and a single attack in the first round. This is assuming the character has to move into position to attack in the first round."
i think youve misunderstood the action economy of Up Close and Personal. its not a standard action. lets compare the slayer and vigilantes combat routine
SLAYER
round 1 (surprise)
hit a target youve chosen and studied. the enemy must save vs death and takes an average of 42 dmg on noncrit.
did your target survive the assassination? tough luck
round 2
hit someone. you can no longer use Assassinate against anyone in this combat, and your sneak attack dmg is gone. you deal 28 dmg on a noncrit
SERIAL KILLER
round 1 (surprise)
hit a target youve chosen and studied. the enemy must save vs death, takes 36 dmg.
did your target survive the death attack? good thing youve got your contingency mighty ambush
round 2
use up close and personal, deal 36 dmg, and force a save vs unconsciousness on another enemy.
is there an unconcious enemy on the floor? slit their throat with a standard action.
optional: use wand charge instead of throat-slitting
/////
i suppose we could equip the serial killer with sandals of quick reaction (no daredevil boots) so that they get a standard and move action during the surprise round, which would allow them to use throat slicer or use a wand charge. or trigger death attack twice in the same combat
the serial killers death attack has just as good of a chance to finish the first target off in the first round as the slayer. but in addition to that they also have mighty ambush whereas the slayer has nothing.
the slayer has just one chance and then theyre a normal bruiser for the rest of the combat. the serial killer can drop and slit throats every round of combat. even when theres no surprise round or ambush
the slayer is also countered by fortification, uncanny dodge, and anything blocking death effects. they do fare better vs foes completely immune vs precision dmg though.
"I posted the full build including all skills, can you do the same?"
that would be hard, sorry, it takes a lot of time for me to write because ive hurt my hand
ill try to answer your questions instead
i believe im on par for the number of social talents. there's one at lv 1, 3, 5, and 9. then another from the FCB equals five. i wasnt clear but "notorious fool/guise of unlife" is a choice between the two. my bad. if you have no reason to go undercover undead you can switch it out for notorious fool instead for rerolls
and vigilante talents should be three. one at lv 2, 8, and 10
attack: 7 from BAB, 6 from DEX, 3 from boosted ST, 1 from small, 1 from daredevil boots, 2 from weapon = 20
damage: 1d4, 6 from DEX, 3 from boosted ST, 2 from weapon, 22.5 from hidden strike = 36 (forgot about the magic weapon)
"By my calculations you should be +17 to hit with the scimitar and doing 1d4+9 +5d8 for damage with a threat range of 18-20. This is far below the 42 you were claiming."
36 isnt far from 42, but its not 42, i concede. for this build i sacrificed damage by choosing hafling, and you didnt like nonlethal so that lowers dmg as well. if nonlethal is allowed then thats another matter, as ive already explained how Sap Master can deal massive damage in combination with the underhanded rogue talent.
nothing is stopping you from taking frightening ambush. glad you liked it. i would however make some feat space in your build for Shadow Strike. anything with concealment completely stops your death attack at the moment
halfling serial killer vigilante 10
Str 8, Dex 18+1+1+2, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 18+2
alternate racial traits
creepy doll (can use stealth to pretend to be a doll, like the freeze monster ability, no intimidate size penalty vs humanoids)
underfoot dodger (+5 to acrobatics to move through space)
traits
wild shadow: urban (HIPS but only in urban and in normal light)
crowd dodger (+2 to acrobatics to move through space)
spoiler:
already straight out of character creation we can now hide anywhere in urban terrain in normal light, which is a lot more common than bright light (as most light sources only raise the vision to normal light), and without a stealth penalty.
we also have the very cool ability to use our stealth skill to freeze like the monster ability to pretend to be a doll. very thematic for a serial killer assassin
social talents (1 from fcb)
social grace, notorious fool/guise of unlife, many guises, hidden magic, skill familiarity
spoiler:
a big part about disguise is fooling magic. with guise of unlife you actually detect as an undead with both divinations and knowledge skills. hidden magic means your items detect as completely nonmagical, which is great when youre creeping as a doll, cleaner, maid, or what you now get up to
social grace is +4 to three different social skills, and skill familiarity allows us to take 10 with any four skills. stealth and acrobatics are good choices for skill fam as youll be rolling them a lot.
gear
daredevil boots, lenses of the predators gaze, shadow armor, wand (true strike, inflict pain, or another good 1 round spell)
relevant skills
acrobatics (for up close): +37, stealth: +30, bluff: +24 (no items), intimidate: +22 (no items), disguise: yes
archetype abilities
studied target (lv 7), charm DC 20+ST, death attack DC 20+ST
vigilante talents
silent dispatch, up close and personal, mighty ambush DC 21+ST
spoiler:
choosing the last talent was pretty hard as there are many good ones. we could take HIPS or rogue talent, but i think silent dispatch will be the cooler choice for an assassin. normally it's a flat DC -10 perception to hear the sounds of battle, so per the rules if you kill a guy guarding a door, the people behind the door only needs to succeed on a flat DC -5 perception check to hear you do it. but with silent dispatch you could take down an entire mansion.
the magic armor shifting jerkin is also very good for taking talents with conflicting level requirements
weve gotten a lot of useful assassin abilities but that costs us dmg. we end up with a +20 attack and a modest average of 34 dmg, in return for the double whammy of the death attack followed by a mighty ambush.
the DCs are normally 20 and 21, but increases by 3 with the lenses, and frightening ambush allows us to demoralize the foe before the strike. so effectively the enemy must first succeed on a DC 25 to not die. and then a DC 26 to not go unconscious and get their throat slit.
inflict pain penalizes their saves by another -4
before you started critiquing the serial killer or vigilante you should have actually read the archetype.
"Base the build on a 10th level using a 25 point buy and use the APB rules to keep things simple. Since the OP stated he wants to kill or seriously injure the target non-lethal damage does not count."
ive shown how you can slit the throat of someone youve neutralized in the same round as you drop them, and how the nonlethal approach blows your slayer out of the water, so i think ill leave that up to OP. if taking 100+ nonlethal isnt seriously injuring a target then i dont know what is
im not very familiar with APB but ill give it a go and not use sap master then
your hat of disguise is a DC 11 when interacted with and you light up like a christmas tree from the most basic of divinations. the vigilante does not have these issues. and there are plenty of ways to make a DEX stalker. like a slayer you can also cheat the STR prereq of power attack if you want to dump STR, but they got excellent 14 STR/MAX DEX support with their lethal grace talent.
if youre using a finessable twohander (like a curved sword), PA, and lethal grace you end up with 42 dmg before any magical weaponry, additional talents, or studied target. up close also means you have your standard action free every turn, which can can be used on weird tactics like spamming a true strike wand
but as a serial killer id make use out of their special exception and take sap master in addition to the underhanded rogue talent. then youd deal 90 dmg from hidden strike alone in the surprise round. or 180 dmg with a double-barreled pistol if that counts as "one strike".
like before, your standard action is free so when they drop from nonlethal or mighty ambush you can simply throat slice them. serial killer even has class features interacting with coup de grace
and a huge advantage that people forget is that hidden strike is (with emphasis) not sneak attack, so fortification does nothing against it. which is a very affordable counter vs rogues at later levels
i did read your earlier post. my issue is that you appear to not be very familiar with the serial killer or the vigilante class at all. that, and that your comparison actually just defaulted to comparing their BAB and nothing else
(also, serial killer do actually qualify for sneak attack abilities but accomplished SA does nothing for them as they have full progression)
you will be doing an average of 42 (or 70) damage on your standard STR bruiser slayer with little to no chance to actually use your talent. the serial killer however, will be an assassin. they will have the perfect class features for social infiltration in addition to their DEX-pumped stealth, and they will rival that 42 damage because stalker vigilantes are actually in a uniquely good position to make single strike builds work because of Up Close and Personal
the damage from hidden strike will never be worse than the slayers sneak attack.
at lv 10 the vigilante gets +5d8 (22.5) in the best case and +5d4 (12.5) in the worst case. the slayer gets +3d6 (10.5) at all times. and the serial killer studied target bonus advances like normal, just delayed. it would be +2 at lv 10. not +1
youre making a lot of weird assumptions that i dont agree with.
The 10th lv slayer won't be at a +11/+6 to hit because OP wanted a one strike build.
the vigilante won't be crit fishing with power attack because they're not a bruiser.
the serial killer only needs CHA because 6 ranks/lv is plenty while their will save is +4 ahead of the slayer. the slayer both needs INT and wants WIS. the serial killer only needs CHA.
at lv 6-9 your slayer doesnt even HAVE any DC because they must wait until lv 10.
at lv 10 your slayer unlocks their assassinate at the exact same time the serial killer unlocks Mighty Ambush. which means that the serial killers target must now roll TWICE because theyre getting hit by TWO save-or-"die" abilities that both get boosted by studied target.
With magic items, id assume the slayer has an assassinate DC of 21.
the serial killer has a death attack DC of 21, followed by a mighty ambush DC of 23/24.
the Serial Killer vigilante can assassinate already at lv 6, gets studied target to boost the DC, and uses CHA instead of INT for the DC. youre a strong will save class with a social focus so you get more return from investing into CHA than a slayer will from investing into INT
with a starting 16 CHA you'd have a DC 16+1 death attack at lv 6 with studied target
at lv 8 (with a +2 headband) you'd now have a DC 18+2 death attack
Frightening Ambush also allows you to intimidate before the death attack occurs to penalize the foe with a -2 on their save
knight of coins paladin with the oath of the skyseeker. with divine favor youre reliable and consistent like a fighter even when youre not smiting, but you also get:
+2 skill ranks per level
way better saving throws (wayyyy)
self healing
a mount
spellcasting
smite evil hordes to delete entire encounters without wasting multiple smite uses
downside is that it uses up all your feats until maybe lv 9
looks like 25 pb. right now you dont qualify for power attack and too much is invested into CON
id go with STR 14 / DEX 18 / CON 15 / INT 10 / WIS 10 / CHA 15
and bump CON/CHA up with ABI at 4 and 8
elven branched spear twohanded, power attack, 14 STR, and unchained rage gives you enough damage to be a threat. cant tank if enemies ignore you. and now you also get better CMD
crossblooded is very dangerous as a bloodrager. it's a -4 will save on a weak will save class. and it doesnt work with primalist because primalist affects the entire bloodline feature
you can use the mage armor spell instead of armor. if you used normal rage not, not unchained, your DEX would be so high that mage armor would be better. now it is slightly worse but works
if you want to actually tank then you could take the id rager archetype for the kindness focus (https://aonprd.com/PhantomFocusDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Kindness) that gives you lay on hands. the fey foundling feat is very good and would give you the fey theme youre after
if you splurge on bracers of the merciful knight (https://aonprd.com/MagicWondrousDisplay.aspx?FinalName=Bracers%20of%20the% 20Merciful%20Knight) youd heal ~33 hp per use as swift action, 9 times per day
you can ready a swift action with your standard action
so during your turn you use your swift action to Smite Evil. and then you spend your standard action to ready a LoH with the trigger "when my turn ends". that way you don't lose any initiative
"The ready action lets you prepare to take an action later, after your turn is over but before your next one has begun. Readying is a standard action. It does not provoke an attack of opportunity (though the action that you ready might do so)."
"You can ready a standard action, a move action, a swift action, or a free action. To do so, specify the action you will take and the conditions under which you will take it. Then, anytime before your next action, you may take the readied action in response to that condition. The action occurs just before the action that triggers it."
after 8 years or so, the Harrow Character Generation finally has some automated support
(https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder_RPG/comments/1f41cd9/the_harrow_charac ter_generation_automated_and/)
(https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2u1rj&page=1?The-Harrow-Character-Generat ion-Attribute)
you lock the point buy to a certain number but randomize the stats by drawing Harrow Cards. so everyone ends up with the exact same point buy although with personalized arrays. it's cool, but maybe for more flexible/experienced players who haven't decided on a build before rolling their stats
you use the entire attack bonus of your phantom, STR/DEX included. just calculate it as if your phantom is the one making a slam attack even though it isn't manifested at the moment.
"So is this as if the Phantom was attacking? I.e. If the Phantom has weapon focus or improved natural attack (tentacles) could it increase everything or is it based off of the Spiritualist?"
yes, as if the phantom was attacking.
so you would benefit from the phantom having weapon focus or a Greater Magic Fang cast on it, but you wouldn't benefit from a Heroism spell cast on yourself.
is there a thematic reason for phantom thief? cutpurse (https://aonprd.com/ArchetypeDisplay.aspx?FixedName=Rogue%20Cutpurse) seems like it would fit better and gives you a supercharged "steal maneuver" at lv 3. instead of targeting their CMD and needing agile maneuvers you use a DC 20 check to steal their item and can do so unnoticed.
so you save two feats and become way way wayyyy better at stealing in combat.
Weapon Trick (https://aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Weapon%20Trick) gives you both Stylish Ripose and Free Hand Maneuver. You could take imp steal if you want, or just flank to not provoke AoO due to Dirty Fighting. or parry the AoO.
I dunno what you're trying to do with the phantom thief. are you ranged? melee? using wands? you get no SA so I can't tell.
Trappings is obviously good but not a super priority imo. it becomes better the higher your total level but that also means it's okay to delay it to lv 10 or 14 (if you're even going that far).
I've seen rly good melee reliquarian builds taking a companion with Animal or that snake domain. take transmutation and then choose the fun implements instead of rusning trappings
The Double Crossbow is an exception to the normal rules. (https://aonprd.com/EquipmentWeaponsDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Double%20crossbow )
"Crossbow Mastery allows you to reload both bolts as a move action."
They didn't think the -4 to all attacks and spending two feats on Crossbow Mastery in addition to it being exotic was harsh enough for the benefit of firing two bolts during full-attacks, so it can't be reloaded as a free action even with Crossbow Mastery.
It looks like the ranger guide mistakenly got placed with the Fighter guides though? (Maybe the mixup happened because the first fighter guide is made by "STR Ranger")
It doesn't say that the traveling companions are granted these powers, just that the cleric can use these powers on them as if they were her.
So you (the cleric) can spend one of your uses of Agile Feet on one of your traveling companions as a free action and they would gain the increased mobility mentioned in the ability.
And in the same way you could spend a move action to teleport one traveling companion with Dimensional Hop (up to your daily limit) as if they were you.
Your traveling companions does not gain their own uses of Agile Feet and Dimensional Hop. Only you possess them.
Seems fine but I'd say you're focusing too much on STR with your point buy. Your attack routine also needs some correction.
Lv 1
-> Primary: Bite (1d6) / Slam (1d4) / Slam (1d4)
-> Secondary: Talon (1d4) / Talon (1d4)
Talons are primary natural attacks. (Unless skinwalker is an exception in this case?)
The Slam attacks from Shifter Claws are incompatible with your skinwalker shape change ability as Shifter Claws can only be used while you are in your "natural form".
"At will, a shifter in her natural form can extend her claws as a swift action to use as a weapon."
So your actual attack routine at lv 1 would be:
-> Primary: Bite (1d6) / Talon (1d4) / Talon (1d4)
Ars Temporum: If Knowledge History plays a big part of your campaign then it's a lot better. But simply giving a bonus (or reducing the DC) is a little boring, and the up-front time payment makes it hard to justify using the trait benefit if you're already good at the skill and expect to succeed.
How about this. During their time at the university they've amassed an impressive collection of study notes. These study notes works in all ways like a Pathfinder Chronicle for History checks (https://aonprd.com/EquipmentMiscDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Pathfinder%20Chronic le), and if they fail a History check they can spend 3 hours referencing their notes to reroll the check once.
Ars Medicae: Consider a scenario where the lv 6 fighter goes down. The player with this trait can then spend 50 rounds giving them 50 temp HP. And since temp HP is not lost until the ability says they're lost, they keep this +50 temp HP buffer even if healed up to full HP.
Limiting it so that they can only get enough temp HP to bring them up to 1 HP (if they're at -5 HP, they could get 6 temp HP) stops it from being abused. And it would likely be less strong if it gave real HP instead of temp HP since there's no time limit.
"Off topic, but Mark Seifter has a really good post analyzing why the Extra Revelation feat (while problematic) is nowhere near as powerful as an Extra Vigilante Talent Feat would be. The Ultimate Intrigue playtest document had a sidebar that flat-out said "vigilante talents are intended to be as good as or better than a feat."
He has a good point about the Mysteries being self-contained, and therefore not subject to powercreep, but the rest of the analysis kinda hinges on the "lv 20 play" assumption that just isn't the case for most tables. I don't care that a lv 20 oracle would normally be given 6 revelations from progression and will eventually run out of "good picks". I care that the lv 11 oracle who replaced two revelations through an archetype will still have all 4-5 good revelations, when the game ends at lv 12.
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Didn't know about the Pain Discipline or Medium Spirit. Neat.
"First are Vigilante talents. There are no "extra vigilante talent" feats out there, and the only archetypes of other classes I know of that can access them can get one specific talent. Paizo really limits access to them, and for a reason: just one talent can contain the equivalent of 2-4 feats, and abilities that are found practically nowhere else in the game."
I see this reasoning pop up all the time when the Vigilante is discussed and I think it's spread by people with second (or third-) hand information about the class. Yes, one specific talent is the equivalent of 3 bonus feats if you really wanted Greater Blind-Fight at lv 16. Then there are four other talents that give you 2 bonus feats but aren't taken together since they're mostly incompatible with each other's playstyle. Unless you happen to be playing a TWF whip-n-board Avenger vigilante that also wants Great Cleave.
There are some standout choices like Lethal Grace or Cunning Feint but you'll run out of the GOOD talents quickly even if the "Extra Vigilante Talent" feat existed. Compared to that, Revelations are way more powerful and there's a feat and item to get more of them.
I think the real reason why the "Extra Vigilante Talent" feat doesn't exist is because paizo finally realized it's poor game design. Every archetype that trades away such a feature can be instantly evaluated with the "is this ability worth a feat?" reasoning instead of being evaluated in itself.
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Seconding Boomering Nebula.
The Vigilante came out rather late in the game's life cycle but already had multiple other archetypes that steals from its class chassis. The Paladin is Core rulebook but they quickly restricted access to Lay on Hands since it's so very potent. AFAIK there's only two ways to get Lay on Hands as a non-paladin, and only one way to get Mercies in addition to that.
"- Ars Vis (understanding how all the forces interact with each other): You can make a DC 15 concentration check to add another type of energy damage to a spell they cast that would deal damage"
Like replace one energy type with another? That's soon to be an auto-success and would be an unlimited amount of the Elemental Metamagic. Very overtuned I'd say. Limit it to twice a day and it's still very potent.
==
"- Ars Temporum (studying history): whenever you look into anything that would ask for a knowledge (history) check, you can spend three hours browsing everything at hand to reduce the DC of the check by 5"
Unlikely to ever be useful. Three hours is quite the investment and History is not the most valuable of knowledge skills. Maybe allow Know History to be used in place of other Know skills once or twice per day. Or base it on the (overtuned) Arodenite Historian trait.
(https://aonprd.com/TraitDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Arodenite%20Historian)
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"- Ars Vivens (studying all living things): choose offense or defense. If offense, you get a +1 trait bonus to confirm critical hit (against living creatures). If defense, you get a +1 trait bonus to AC only when ennemies are confirming a critical hit against you (the logic being you understand how your and other's bodies work better than most)"
The "+1 to confirm" traits are actually very weak since traits are supposed to be 1/2 of a feat and Critical Focus is a +4 bonus. You could give both bonuses and the trait would still be rather mid in power. I'd give +1 in both and increase one of them (player's choice) by 1.
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"- Ars Geographicam (studying cartography and the planet itself): whenever you look into anything that would ask for a knowledge (geography) check, you can spend three hours browsing everything at hand to reduce the DC of the check by 5."
Not very flashy. Maybe add another way to use the skill instead. Like, if you have a map of the area you can plan a route to make overland travel faster for you and your group.
==
"- Ars Medicae (healing): when making a heal check for first aid, in addition to stabilizing them, you also grant them one temporary hit point for each round you spend with them (within 5 ft and spend at least 1 standard action with them)."
You definitely want a limit on the amount of Temp HP they can get. Up to 1 HP seems fine. And maybe they turn into real HP after an hour.
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"- Ars Crescente (agriculture and other forms of plant cultures): I honestly have no idea"
Hm. A bonus vs plant type creatures is the obvious choice but very narrow in scope. Maybe something related to the "nature" classes?
Ranger: Add plant companions to their list of available companions
Druid: May cast Summon Nature's Ally as a full-round action (instead of a 1 round action) 3 times/day.
MWK backpack gives us +1.
Muscle of Society trait is +2.
Efficient Packer trait is another +2. (And has a really fitting description: You were once delighted to discover an object that could be the crown jewel of your collection, only to be thwarted by its weight.)
x3 Ant Haul
x3 (+8) Muleback Cords
x16 Colossal bidped
59 million pounds, ~26700 metric tonnes.
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"the Empire State Building, which is approximately 50 times higher, weighs around 350 thousand tons"
If someone helps me push the strength score up by ~19 we can steal the Empire State Building with a Teleport spell.
"You can bring along objects as long as their weight doesn't exceed your maximum load."
[ I know that in our games, and I think in most games, the Wizard is pretty much the most powerful PC by 9th/10th Level -- sometimes earlier.
hahaha, most games must have horrible players. While a well built Wizard is powerful, there are many character builds that can outclass him.
I'll bite.
Do you think people call the wizard "powerful" because they do the most damage? Most martials deal more damage than a wizard can put out, and do so all day long.
But that's not being "powerful". That's staying in your lane and playing as the game expects you to. Wizards are powerful because they don't.
But in a few months when my current campaign ends and I start the next, well, the campaign I'm planning could probably benefit from PCs with the Magic-Item Creation Feats.
/.../
Here's what I'm thinking: Using an Item Creation Feat to create a Magic Item is 10% less than the full cost of the Magic Item rather than a 50% discount. Now the PCs can get their gear at 90% of cost which is not that terrible, I think.
So you don't want the PCs to get extra wealth from the feats, but you do want them to have the ability to craft magic items because your campaign idea makes this a necessity? Instead of nerfing the feats while simultaneously pressuring a player to take them, you could just give them out for free in return for removing the gold discount aspect entirely.
(Magic items would then need to be sold for a 1:1 value in "magic supplies" to craft magic items)
Of course, if the table is full of casters they might not even care about what loot they're getting as everyone can just craft exactly what they want. So to keep loot exciting, you could limit the gold cost of what they can create to certain maximum gold values that increase as they level. For example the Lesser Minor - Greater Major tables.
I think my best bet for this character is using immediate-action movement, maxing spellcraft, and being on the lookout for opportunities when they appear. I'm thinking a valet familiar with Stick Together that readies actions to move, and a pair of Stagger-Proof Boots.
I somehow completely forgot about ranged attacks. That does open up a lot more opportunities and is achievable by any vigilante.
Redirecting a spell seems way harder than even melee attacks though. The caster would need to deliberately not cast defensively and you need some way to stay close to them, like Step Up.
Maybe you could sneak right next to who you think is a caster before combat starts, and steal a buff or redirect an offensive spell if you're lucky.
