Inventor - Class Feat: Reverse Engineer


Advice


Heyho...

just a quick question. Could be, that I have missed something.
But...
Reverse Engineer is in the new Remaster a 2nd Level Class Feat, which needs Expert in Crafting.
As far as I can see, you will get Expert Crafting on Level 3 with Expert Overdrive.
So... I assume the precondition for Reverse Engineer is either wrong, or it is a 4th Level Class Feat?

Any Ideas?


Paktai wrote:

Heyho...

just a quick question. Could be, that I have missed something.
But...
Reverse Engineer is in the new Remaster a 2nd Level Class Feat, which needs Expert in Crafting.
As far as I can see, you will get Expert Crafting on Level 3 with Expert Overdrive.
So... I assume the precondition for Reverse Engineer is either wrong, or it is a 4th Level Class Feat?

Any Ideas?

Except for L1, you get class feats at even levels. Which means if the designers want a PC to be able to use a class feat at L3, they have to give it to them as a L1 or L2 feat.


Easl wrote:


Except for L1, you get class feats at even levels. Which means if the designers want a PC to be able to use a class feat at L3, they have to give it to them as a L1 or L2 feat.

Yeah... But - as long as a Feat has a precondition - you are not able to pick it, until you have the precon solved.

So... In that case, it would mean, that you have a Level 2 Skill Feat, which you can pick at Level 4, because on Level 2, you are not allowed to pick it.
And thats what bothering me :)


Well, you could use your 3rd level general feat to pick up a skill feat (although it's kind of wasteful).

I will agree it's seems a bit janky the way it's laid out.

Either the feat shouldn't have had a requirement of being expert, or it should have been like a level 3 or 4 feat.

Or they needed to give the promotion to expert proficiency in crafting earlier than level 3. Heck even just allowing the Inventor to spend a starting skill on crafting to increase their proficiency to expert ahead of when most classes could normally take it.

But as is, it's kind of janky.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

This is an old issue. No clarification or errata has ever happened. It wasn't changed in the G&G remaster.

As it stands, the feat being level 2 is important to someone archetypes into inventor and trying to take it, but an actual inventor can only ever take it at 4 or later without Variant Rules being used.


Well...
Then thank you for your input so far. A shame that they didnt adressed it in the remaster, when it was an issue before also. Since this looks for me total strange. Guess I will houserule it at my table to not use any preconditions, beside Level 2.

Have a nice one :)


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Most level 2 skill feats requires expert because rogues and investigators get expert at level 2 for skills. All other classes needs to wait up to level 3 to be able to take such skills feats.

Probably the inventos class feat is following the same basis. The problem is that this effectively makes the feat a level 4 feat for inventors.

This can work with dual-class rules making a rogue inventor or an inventor investigator.


Naaa, not even then.
Level 2 - Dedication
Level 4 - Pick your 1st or 2nd Level Class Feat.

So... Either way, it is out of Scope.
Maybe, the wanted to have the Inventor at some point also with Expert Crafting at Level 2, but missed it, and didnt revisited it again.
But as written, it makes absolut 0 sense. Level 4, with Expert Crafting? Fine! Level 2? There is no way that you can obtain it in the way its written.

Ok... It would mean, that a Rogue or Investigator could pick the Feat, if he goes Inventor Dedication at 2. But... Thats kind of shitty Feat Design, if you block out the main class for 1 level, to make it accessible for other classes.


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Paktai wrote:

Naaa, not even then.

Level 2 - Dedication
Level 4 - Pick your 1st or 2nd Level Class Feat.

So... Either way, it is out of Scope.
Maybe, the wanted to have the Inventor at some point also with Expert Crafting at Level 2, but missed it, and didnt revisited it again.
But as written, it makes absolut 0 sense. Level 4, with Expert Crafting? Fine! Level 2? There is no way that you can obtain it in the way its written.

Ok... It would mean, that a Rogue or Investigator could pick the Feat, if he goes Inventor Dedication at 2. But... Thats kind of s&%#ty Feat Design, if you block out the main class for 1 level, to make it accessible for other classes.

YuriP said dual class, not archetype. A dual class Inventor with Rogue/Investigator gets Rogue/Investigator skill progress and thus gets an expert skill at level 2. If they pick Crafting, they can take Reverse Engineer at level 2.

That obviously isn't what the class intends with the level, but it is a way for an Inventor to get it at level 2.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Considering the similarities between this feat and the 4th level Reverse Engineering feat for the Scrounger archetype, I'm guessing the developers used that as a starting point. They may have just not thought through the consequences of dropping it to a 2nd level feat while keeping the prerequisite.

Besides dual-class, another niche way of getting it at level 2 is if your game uses Free Archetype and you take the Vehicle Mechanic dedication.

Liberty's Edge

Paktai wrote:

Level 2 - Dedication

Level 4 - Pick your 1st or 2nd Level Class Feat.

If it were a 3rd level Inventor Feat, a Multiclass character couldn’t take it til 6th level, and even then only after taking a 1st or 2nd level Inventor Feat.

Also, if you find some way to get Crafting to Expert at 2, you can take it at 2.


If I was to ever be GMing for an Inventor player, I'd tell him I'm 100% ready to waive the Requirement and just let him take it at 2, like normal. It's just not that powerful that I'd feel the need to gate it behind its weird little prereqs.

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