Hello, I have a question about authorized rune.
If any other creature wields the weapon, needles immediately erupt from the weapon's hilt or shaft, dealing 1d8 piercing damage plus 1d4 persistent bleed damage to the wielder. If the weapon has a striking rune, this damage increases to 1d8 per damage die and 1d4 persistent damage per damage die; this counts only the weapon's base die and dice from the striking rune. The persistent bleed damage can't end while the creature still holds the weapon. The spikes retract once the creature lets go.
Is it possible to use a command or suggestion spell to command a target to wield a weapon ?
If the spell is heightened to affect several creatures, must the creature attempt to take the weapon from the target that wielded it ?
Are there others spells that permit it to command to do something of similar ?
Thanks for your future answer.
Hello, I have a question about authorized rune.
If any other creature wields the weapon, needles immediately erupt from the weapon's hilt or shaft, dealing 1d8 piercing damage plus 1d4 persistent bleed damage to the wielder. If the weapon has a striking rune, this damage increases to 1d8 per damage die and 1d4 persistent damage per damage die; this counts only the weapon's base die and dice from the striking rune. The persistent bleed damage can't end while the creature still holds the weapon. The spikes retract once the creature lets go.Is it possible to use a command or suggestion spell to command a target to wield a weapon ?
Yes but there are differences between Suggestion and many other spells that subtle controls creatures and Command.
For Suggestion the creature must be unaware that the weapon could damage it otherwise it will be considered self-destructive and the creature will refuse to accept.For Command this restriction from self-destructive doesn't exists but the creature usually can only use one-action to obey you so the weapon have to be in their reach to allow the creature to use an action Interact to take it.
If the spell is heightened to affect several creatures, must the creature attempt to take the weapon from the target that wielded it ?
As long as the creature is willing to hand it over, yes. Otherwise, according to the rules for held items, they will have to try to Disarm until the item falls to the ground on a critical success before they can pick it up.
Are there others spells that permit it to command to do something of similar ?
There are others like Subconscious Suggestion and Telepathic Demand. The problem is that like Suggestion they only works if the target is unaware of the danger and have Incapacitation trait.
Other option is Commanding Lash domain spell that is an improved Command spell that doesn't uses a spellslot but the creature becomes immune to it for 1 hour after it uses.| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
All in all, it seems like an overly complicated way to try to deal a little damage and get the enemy to waste actions.
There are better ways to accomplish that, typically.
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Command is pretty limited in what it lets you command a creature to do:
You shout a command that's hard to ignore. You can command the target to approach you, run away (as if it had the fleeing condition), release what it's holding, drop prone, or stand in place. It can't Delay or take any reactions until it has obeyed your command. The effects depend on the target's Will save.
Success The creature is unaffected.
Failure The creature must spend the first action on its next turn to obey your command.
Critical Failure The target must use all its actions on its next turn to obey your command.
None of that lets you Command the target to take your Authorized weapon.
Command is pretty limited in what it lets you command a creature to do:
That was exactly my thought reading the OP. Command wouldn't work. Command doesn't allow for arbitrary commands of your choosing. It has a fixed and very limited list of commands available. "Wield that specific weapon" is not one of them.
Command is pretty limited in what it lets you command a creature to do:
None of that lets you Command the target to take your Authorized weapon.You shout a command that's hard to ignore. You can command the target to approach you, run away (as if it had the fleeing condition), release what it's holding, drop prone, or stand in place. It can't Delay or take any reactions until it has obeyed your command. The effects depend on the target's Will save.
Success The creature is unaffected.
Failure The creature must spend the first action on its next turn to obey your command.
Critical Failure The target must use all its actions on its next turn to obey your command.
Well noted, in my mind it was an action of Interact, not specifically "release what it's holding"
Honestly, commanding someone to go prone is pretty brutal option (unclear if going prone causes you to drop items you're holding. Like it probably should, but it would be out of line with the other effects). Kind of how in the same way standing from prone probably should require empty hands, but again that's probably out of line in terms of game effects.
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A character dropping prone does not mean that they release all of their held items. Whether dropping prone is done voluntary, compelled magically, or forced via Trip.
Falling unconscious involves both dropping prone and releasing all held items, but it does so as two separate things.
Charitable Urge is another spell that could potentially and in very niche scenarios have all sorts of interesting interactions with an Authorized Rune.
Honestly, commanding someone to go prone is pretty brutal option (unclear if going prone causes you to drop items you're holding. Like it probably should, but it would be out of line with the other effects). Kind of how in the same way standing from prone probably should require empty hands, but again that's probably out of line in terms of game effects.
The problem is when you use a 2-actions spell to make an enemy to Drop Prone (1-action) then it probably will Stand (1-action) you basically are trading off 2-actions for 2-actions and also wasting a slot in this yet it's useful to trigger AoO/RS specially if you have a fighter with 2 or more reactions per round because are 2 triggers one for each action.
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Honestly, commanding someone to go prone is pretty brutal option (unclear if going prone causes you to drop items you're holding. Like it probably should, but it would be out of line with the other effects). Kind of how in the same way standing from prone probably should require empty hands, but again that's probably out of line in terms of game effects.
What? You don't need empty hands to stand up. You don't need to use your hands at all, though people typically do as it's slightly easier. But you can easily push off the ground with a closed hand, or even by using the object if it's large or sturdy enough (like a weapon).
A character dropping prone does not mean that they release all of their held items. Whether dropping prone is done voluntary, compelled magically, or forced via Trip.
Falling unconscious involves both dropping prone and releasing all held items, but it does so as two separate things.
I agree, the mechanics stated make no implication that held items are dropped. Just saying that generally speaking I expect that people will need to drop held items to do it, but it's too punishing from an action perspective within the game.
And I also agree that it's possible to go prone or stand from prone while having items in your hands, but harder to do so. The kind of thing that I would expect to be a acrobatics or athletics check to do, but again, the action cost imposed by such restrictions would be too much when looking at the overall game system.
Suddenly tripping would become "god-tier" if your opponent had to empty their hands or make a skill check to stand up. And it's already pretty good.
And I also agree that it's possible to go prone or stand from prone while having items in your hands, but harder to do so.
You don't need your hands at all to stand up. Just sit, cross your legs and stand up. But it may not be the best method in combat :D
But overall, there are multiple ways to stand up, using different parts of your body.
And I also agree that it's possible to go prone or stand from prone while having items in your hands, but harder to do so.You don't need your hands at all to stand up. Just sit, cross your legs and stand up. But it may not be the best method in combat :D
But overall, there are multiple ways to stand up, using different parts of your body.
Right, but I think that's probably more than a single action to stand, would you agree?
But we're splitting hairs at this point.
I think we agree on what the rules say.
I don't find them particularly reflective of reality (and that's okay) the way they work makes sense for game balance.
Right, but I think that's probably more than a single action to stand, would you agree?
No. Stand is one action. And one that does not require a free hand.
I think we agree on what the rules say.
Not if you are saying that the rules indicate that you have to drop your held items in order to use the Stand action, or that the Stand action requires more than one action to use.
I don't find them particularly reflective of reality (and that's okay) the way they work makes sense for game balance.
It works fine with narrative and reality.
I am perfectly capable of holding a sturdy item in a hand that I am also using to leverage myself back into a standing position with. I don't have to grab the floor in order to push off of it with my knuckles.
Alright, yeah we have a misunderstanding.
I agree the rules don't say you drop items.
I agree the rules don't require multiple actions to stand up, or free hands.
I disagree with the rules on those points vs my experience of reality, but I'm not going to run the game differently because it makes going prone a death sentence, and it's relatively easy to inflict.
Game balance is more important than being some sort of "accurate" (to whose standard anyways) reflection of reality.