Do the contents of extradimensional containers, like the retrieval belt, apply toward your bulk encumbrance limit if the container’s description does not explicitly state that the bulk of its contents is ignored (as the spacious pouch does)?
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I am not seeing that as a general rule or as something that is written into the Extradimensional trait.
So, by RAW... no. The items in the Retrieval Belt would still be counted towards the encumbrance of the character wearing the belt.
But I also expect that this is going to be regularly ruled that it doesn't count towards the encumbrance limit because that simply makes more narrative sense.
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I'll state a claim that extra-stored items do *not* count toward a PC's bulk limit. Empty or full has no change on the bulk.
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Items like the Backpack specifically say that their contents do count toward your limit backward via the "and the first 2 Bulk of these items do not count..." rule.
The Retrieval Belt does not actually have any wording to say that its contents do contribute. As such, that notion is being invented out of a lack of text.
"The belt is tied to an extradimensional space that can hold one item of 1 Bulk or less."
There's nothing in the text to indicate the belt itself gets heavier when its pocket dimension is occupied.
There are even items with both backpack style and extradimensional containers, like the Alchemist's Haversack.
It's frustrating that it's not linked/connected directed in the Extradimensional trait, but it's pretty solid RaW that the insides of these spaces are not connected to the material plane, and are explicitly without gravity, etc. Even if that pocket dimension did have gravity, those containers are essentially portals, and there's still no reason why weight on the in-side dimension would cause the dimension-generator (the item) to gain in mass/weight.
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The Spacious Pouch specifically mentioning that the bag does not get heavier does not mean that other extradimenionals do get heavier, somehow. If anything, the S.Pouch description supports that behavior as being the norm for extradimensional storage. There's 0 text that indicates S.Pouch is an exception to a norm, which would be needed.
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While many items do invoke/refer to the Spacious Pouch and therefore get to include that line, other like the Smuggler's Sack and the Librarian's Staff do not.
If the Librarian's Staff got heavier as you added more writings, then it would quickly become one of the densest and most impossible to use objects in the pf2 setting. The L12 staff can hold 100 bulk of texts, something I don't think any PC could hold well enough to wield.
Again, the staff has 0 tie to the Spacious Pouch item, only the Extradimensional tag.
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In short, no.
I think it is a very safe / solid ruling to say that all extradimenional storage does not contribute to the perceived bulk/weight of any container or object creating the extra-space.
The extradimensional trait is kind of hilariously self referential.
"This effect or item creates an extradimensional space. An extradimensional effect placed inside another extradimensional space ceases to function until it is removed."
However, given that it doesn't provide a definition of what extradimensional means, we have to use the our commonly understood definition, which is:
extradimensional
1. (science fiction) Originating outside the known physical reality of the universe.
2. (science fiction) Coming from a world outside Einsteinian space-time.
An object in a space that is outside of our physical reality, should not interact with our physical bulk. If it did, I think the space would be, by definition, not extradimensional.
Bulk is also a function of volume and mass, so shrinking a 1 bulk object's mass to contribute to the mass of the belt it's linked to would provide an undefined bulk of the belt.
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The Retrieval Belt does not actually have any wording to say that its contents do contribute. As such, that notion is being invented out of a lack of text.
There are plenty of RAI arguments that indicate that an extradimensional space should have some special effect regarding the bulk of the items stored in it.
But RAW the rules for Bulk are reasonably clear that it includes all items that you are carrying or wearing or have stored in containers that you are wearing. Otherwise we run into problems with rules lawyers saying that "I'm not holding or carrying the item and that is all that the bulk rules list. The item is stored in my backpack and that is different, so doesn't qualify and doesn't count."
So I think it is a bit much to say that the notion is being invented.
Bulk is also a function of volume and mass, so shrinking a 1 bulk object's mass to contribute to the mass of the belt it's linked to would provide an undefined bulk of the belt.
The Retrieval Belt does not actually have any wording to say that its contents do contribute. As such, that notion is being invented out of a lack of text.There are plenty of RAI arguments that indicate that an extradimensional space should have some special effect regarding the bulk of the items stored in it.
But RAW the rules for Bulk are reasonably clear that it includes all items that you are carrying or wearing or have stored in containers that you are wearing. Otherwise we run into problems with rules lawyers saying that "I'm not holding or carrying the item and that is all that the bulk rules list. The item is stored in my backpack and that is different, so doesn't qualify and doesn't count."
So I think it is a bit much to say that the notion is being invented.
No.
I must insist to the contrary, and say that these takes come from a misunderstanding as to how the trait functions.When you put an item into a backpack, the item is in that place, actually resting inside the backpack, contributing volume and weight.
Items inside ExtraD storage do not exist on the material plane, you are not carrying them. You carry the dimension-generator and its bulk, but afaik there has never been an ExtraD effect that imposes bulk upon the caster/generator when the ExtraD space fills.
This is *not* a "bigger on the inside" situation. The trait is not called "Compression" nor anything that would indicate the item is being shrunk, nor that the interior of a pouch is being stretched.
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Try to forget the belt and pouch and think on the Librarian Staff as the "most basic" form of ExtraD space. There is no "interior hollow" inside the Librarian Staff that is massively stretched to hold the texts. That type of magical effect explicitly is not altering nor transmuting existing space. ExtraD "storage" is item teleportation with extra steps. The staff has a link to a pocket dimension, that like all dimensions, exists somewhere in the Astral meta-dimension. The staff lacks the portal-like opening that the S.Pouch has, which is likely a misleading/confusing detail responsible for the "shrink" misinterpretation. Instead, the staff directly teleports items to/from it's ExtraD storage space.
(Same for the R.Belt, btw. You never open nor touch the belt to store/retrieve items.)
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This "teleportation with extra steps" is why when a S.Pouch is cut/broken, the items do *not* spill out of the bag next to the PCs, but are lost somewhere in the Astral plane. Those items are not contributing to the item's weight because they do not exist on the material plane at all.
To retrieve an item from an S.Pouch, you reach your hand into another dimension to grab it (extradimensional). You don't "carry" nor are weighted down by objects that are in another dimension.
Again, the Librarian Staff makes this easier to understand, but this is what a space being "Extradimensional" means. And without inventing even more new rules to "reduce" the weight of texts, the staff's storage function would be worse than worthless. Storing texts inside without eliminating bulk could only ever be inferior to wearing spell scrolls/ect on one's person.
I have to agree with Trip H. and others here. Though the Extradimensional trait description is a bit of a joke, if an object is in an extradimensional space then it shouldn't be contributing to your own Bulk. Its in another dimension, not you.
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I agree that items in an extradimensional space shouldn't be counted against the carrier's encumbrance. I also agree that the trait should say so
Yup. Because otherwise it isn't actually written. Which is the 'W' part of RAW.
Also, the Sleeves of Storage do get heavier as you put things in them. Though it doesn't say by how much. And since it doesn't say, it seems to be a flavor thing rather than mechanically increasing the bulk of the sleeves or counting any of the bulk of the stored items against the character's bulk limit.
But without the rule being printed anywhere, how do you determine which is right - that the default is that 0% of the bulk of the items in the extradimensional space is counted, that the default is that 100% of the bulk of the items stored in the extradimensional space is counted, or that 50% of the bulk of the items in the extradimensional space are counted?
None of those options have rule support.
And it is still surprising how many people can't leave their preconceptions and personal biases aside when trying to read what the rules actually say.