I was thinking of a paladin/monk/champion of irori character. Is that doable with the legendary classes and as asked above are Prestige Classes allowed?
The use of the **awesome** descriptor caught my attention, so I started putting together an Incanter // Legendary Kineticist. For what other reason could I ever build such a strange mix of 3pp Pathfinder goodness?
@trawets- lol, nice. One of my ideas was to make the high priest of Irori: monk/pally/Champion of Irori on one side and oracle/evangelist on the other (but I’ll avoid that since you’re already going that direction)
Just flipping through the high-CR monsters in Archives of Nethys (Achaekek, Ahriman, the Tarrasque, etc) I didn’t see anything that even quite got to 50. I suspect 60+ AC will be plenty.
Narekk is AC70 and Bolvar is AC66. Is that about what is right?
And that is just his "Static AC". In practice it is AC 80. Could easily go higher since I have not yet spend a single gold piece, but I believe it would be overkill.
Hi VoA, Going with Cronossuss Fallen of Time an ELan Psion Using spheres of power Or Psionics unleashed if allowed L20/ legendary-investigator L20 / Mythic Overmind T1
Cus Fallen is kind of built and can easily re-gig for the new rules set. So will be changing this alt.
Would a huge creature be prohibitively large for this adventure? I'm half-considering using Suit Pilot Technician for one half of this build because it would be hilarious.
Would a huge creature be prohibitively large for this adventure? I'm half-considering using Suit Pilot Technician for one half of this build because it would be hilarious.
I’ve been looking at the Taninim race from In the Company of Dragons, which can get to Colossal. So I’m definitely interested in this answer as well. I’ll have ways to be smaller, but not 100% of the time, and not at full combat power though.
Now that's a pitch and a half! I love all that stuff.
Since there seems to be a lot of (understandable) interest in the caster side of things, as well as support-favouring folk, I'd probably stay away from that.
With the pitch for any alignment and the setting tips, I'm looking at some version of the lesser evil, currently considering someone who finished Skull & Shackles, only to be more of the new management persuasion. Definitely antipaladin on one side, and something more thematic on the other.
Spheres of Power Force Redirection Technique (You may use your Strength modifier in place of your Dexterity modifier to AC, up to a maximum of 3 + half of your base attack bonus…so 13 max)
For Armor, it is 9 normally (Unarmored training from spheres of power so can add entirety of strength). +5 Enchantment and +5 Maintenance. The entire party will get that maintenance +5.
Heavy Shield is +5 enchantment with shield focus
Race gives +2 natural armor, with ABP +5
For the Helmet…that is a +5 Dwarven Boulder Helm with Defending Enchantment
Total:10 + 12 + 19 + 8 + 7 + 5 + 5 = 66
So that’s how I got to 66.
Maintenance:
* Can assist companions to get the most out of their gear each day. Whenever the party has at least 8 consecutive hours of rest time (or the equivalent of 8 hour’s rest, such as 2 hour’s rest with a ring of sustenance or similar ability), the blacksmith can set aside a small period of time to perform these maintenance tasks without interfering with his normal rest to give him and a number of allies equal to 1 + his Constitution modifier (minimum 1) one of the following benefits for 24 hours, or until their next 8 hour or longer rest, whichever comes first. The blacksmith may select a different maintenance for each ally to be affected. See List
* Armor Maintenance: The blacksmith and his allies reduce the armor check penalty of all armor they wear by 1 (minimum 0), and increase the armor bonus of their worn armor (but not shields) by +1. The armor bonus increases by +1 and the armor check penalty is reduced by an additional 1 at 5th level and every 5 levels thereafter. For the purposes of this ability, a standard set of clothing or similar equivalent (such as a wizard’s robes) is treated as light armor with an armor bonus and armor check penalty of 0.
The one thing I’d point out is that Bolvar, so long as he has 2 hours rest He gives the entire party +5 AC, +5 Reflex Saves and +5 Will Saves.
Anyways, that’s how I got my numbers.
If I was told that AC was too high…I’d switch to Mithril Plate, which he’d have +7 max dex and I’d replace the Helm. That would drop his AC from 66 to 51.
But that’s why I ask. I don’t want to be the guy whose AC is 20 too high or too low…
It does cost a fair amount of resources and some classes can't really do it, but it is not that difficult. We are using ABP, so from the get go you already have AC 25 without doing nothing at all (10, +5 armor, +5 deflection, +5 natural).
Since we have so many feats, anyone can spare a couple ones to buff their AC. As an example, Shield Focus and Unhindering Shield is something anyone can get and if you add +5 enhancement to the buckler, you already got another +7 shield to AC. We are at 32 AC now.
Dex is important to about anyone and at this level and with so many stat boosts, you can easily get it to a +8 or more. 40ish AC.
Now it becomes more class dependent. If your class can use heavy armor, mithral full-plate could get you close to 50ish AC. Monks with high Wisdom can also get huge. If you are a wizard that doesn't need a weapon, it is a good idea to use that free +5 from ABP and give your staff the defending property for another +5.
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In Narekk's case, I used lots of synergies. There is an option for the legendary cleric that he has the monk's ac thing, so that alone (with a +15 Wis) gives me +20 AC. My second class is the barbarian, which has the option of "naked courage" to also get ac without armor.
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One thing to also consider is that not everyone needs to do it. I'm building Narekk to be an absolute tank, both in terms of AC, HP, and "imortality". His whole function for the team will be to soak damage and heal everyone. I put a lot of resources in it, to the point that I'll not be remarkable in dishing damage myself (I think).
@Voice of Awesomeness
I have a request.
I hate dealing with ABP, because of the limitations it imposes on equipment "Any weapon, armor, or shield special abilities on attuned items count against a character’s enhancement bonus from attunement." Thus, you can have one or two magic weapons at most, and you can't have a magic armor with more than a +5 enhancement bonus (total; ie. no Heavy Fortification mithral plate +5 for example). Also, it drives me nuts trying to figure out the revised costs of assorted items (for example, how much is a hyperboreal robe sans the +2 resistance bonus)
As I will have access to all item crafting feats (Archmage path ability: Cafting Mastery), I request permission to ignore ABP entirely, and just craft any and all magic items needed from the 1,018,710 gp available...
Also, what do you feel about third party feats, in particular,
Self Delusion.
I have a request.
I hate dealing with ABP, because of the limitations it imposes on equipment "Any weapon, armor, or shield special abilities on attuned items count against a character’s enhancement bonus from attunement." Thus, you can have one or two magic weapons at most, and you can't have a magic armor with more than a +5 enhancement bonus (total; ie. no Heavy Fortification mithral plate +5 for example). Also, it drives me nuts trying to figure out the revised costs of assorted items (for example, how much is a hyperboreal robe sans the +2 resistance bonus)
As I will have access to all item crafting feats (Archmage path ability: Cafting Mastery), I request permission to ignore ABP entirely, and just craft any and all magic items needed from the 1,018,710 gp available...
Also, what do you feel about third party feats, in particular,
Self Delusion.
There is a blog post on paizo about an alternative way to deal with magic weapons/armor that was supposed to be the cannon thing, but folks figured it was too complicated or whatever. It basically lets you have a weapon with whatever the normal enhancement bonus and also a "capacity" that you can use your attuned bonus. So a Flaming 5 capacity weapon in the hands of someone with 5 attunement would work as a +5 Flaming weapon. This fixes most stuff.
Here is the link. It is true, however, that this only solves the issue of a couple items.
Now, about other items, I believe ABP only gets rid of items that only have the bonus it replaces. Like, the hyperboreal robe would still have the +2 resistance bonus and still cost the same thing, since it has other abilities as well. A belt of physical perfection, however, does not exist.
For Armor, it is 9 normally (Unarmored training from spheres of power so can add entirety of strength). +5 Enchantment and +5 Maintenance. The entire party will get that maintenance +5.
Not that it's that much of a hinderance at this level, but I think you do have to invest a feat into Zodiac Tattoos in order to give your skin an enhancement bonus, right?
For Armor, it is 9 normally (Unarmored training from spheres of power so can add entirety of strength). +5 Enchantment and +5 Maintenance. The entire party will get that maintenance +5.
Not that it's that much of a hinderance at this level, but I think you do have to invest a feat into Zodiac Tattoos in order to give your skin an enhancement bonus, right?
Tattooed Warrior
Tattooed warriors turn their bodies into weapons through the use of magic symbols engraved onto their very flesh.
Bonus Talents:
Equipment: Unarmed Training, Unarmored Training
Bonus Feats: Dragon’s Tattoos, Zodiac Tattoos
Special: Tattooed warriors gain 1 bonus skill point that must be spent on Craft (tattoos) each time they gain a level in any class.
Had an absolutely gods awful head cold last night which caused my tinnitus to flare up. As a result, I got maybe an hour of sleep last night, then slept a lot of the day away.
Let me address some things and answer what questions I can:
First and foremost, let's try to cap things around the level 20 bench press numbers.
I had meant to mention this during my OP, and I apologize for failing to do so.
I realize this might possibly mean I need to potentially rework the character creation rules. If so, and some/all of ya'll want to drop out, I will totally understand, as I screwed up.
I had also meant to include the limitations I mentioned in the interest check in my OP, but again, completely forgot:
No more than 3 spells or the equivalent thereof per round.
Let's try and limit the number of physical attacks to something reasonable, yeah? **Supposedly** there's a build(idk what) that lets you make something like 85 attacks per round or some such nonsense. Can we avoid stuff like that? I don't want to have to bring out the nuclear options vs you guys, lol
No unlimited/endless/infinite anything. Idc if it's technically RAW or not.
As for anything I did not explicitly call out, just be reasonable and use common sense, yeah? If you find yourself needing to ask if something is okay, chances are at least decent it's probably not.
Again, if all of these potential changes/restrictions causes people to want to drop out, that's completely understandable.
Questions answered!(hopefully):
1) I would suggest limiting yourself to Huge size or so. I am unsure what if anything bigger would be okay or not, and I'd rather not have people struggle to make their way through the adventure cuz they're too big.
2) Natural armor for companions can stack from both, which should get you a +22 total, I think? Again, keep things reasonable.
3) PrCs are totally fine, and yeah, no 'double up' ones. Or at the very least, no crazy shenanigans where you break your casting ability to well over +20 levels.
4) For ABP, I always assumed it's to cover your plus to a stat bonuses, so you can spend your gold on things like flaming, fortification, belt of extra smexiness, etc.
Ie, if you want a +5 heavy fortification armor, you just pay for the HF enchantment outta your starting gold.
Tinnitus sucks. I've got that as well (I'm an idiot who fired a 240b without any hearing protection with it held up to the side of my head). Hope the head cold clears up and you get some sleep!
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I think that build rules need to change to keep numbers low enough. I'd suggest dropping gestalt at the least. Maybe even lower the gold available and the bonus feats. Too many ways to boost numbers, to the point where staying even close to the regular lvl 20 is hard.
Voice are you happy with Psionic transparency, my hope is to keep the PC simple, Other than that, 'Fallen' will be well within the limits set.
As for what Fallen is, I really like the idea of making a DUNGEON ENGINEER, someone who is with the port to study the Dungeon for research.
Took the Engineering side of Legendary Investigator, and she is a designer and builder of Dungans. Has a Company and all the builds them.
As its a party Dungeon game, She is also able to aid others a lot I think. There are going to be some hard hitters, as fellow PCs my hope if picked is that Fallen help them get past traps and other such. She also has telepathy and can link the party that way if needed.
For newer rules
Myself I think Capping is a good thing, as Party Members will have a more even, level. I always worry with high level games about stuff that could bounce off max players and wipe out lower powered ones.
Leadership, yerrr giulty there.
There is always a problem of PC rocking up with leadership maxed and a one PC-Army of followers.
Let me address some things and answer what questions I can:
First and foremost, let's try to cap things around the level 20 bench press numbers.
...
AAANNND now we have a problem, because that just died horribly a while back. I mean I'm guessing at To Hit in the range of 20 (bab) +10 (spirit bonus) + 13 dex = 43 (and that's without weapon focus, enhancement, a -10 to AC for enemies within 30', predation, etc... Not to mention there's no mythic in there). We're looking at something on the order of 10 attacks per melee (with pounce), each at a minimum of +25 to damage (more once we start enchanting the weapon). Saves are +35 or more. I figure I will be challenging Narekk for AC
Yeah, I think you're going to need to revised the build rules. A LOT, if you want to keep within those numbers. I mean if we dropped Gestalt (and thus the entire Legendary Ranger bit), this build would still be pushing very hard against the maxes, in all categories...
So just for everyone's entertainment, I am going to post what I have in a spoiler:
A partial build:
N Male Half-Elf
Legendary Medium (Spirit Dancer) 20/Legendary Ranger () 20
Deity: ???
Init +? = +? Dex+4 Improved Initiative +2 racial (fleet footed) + 2 Trait
Speed 30 ft
Low Light Vision
Feats:
*** (Background Feat)
Elven Spirit (mythic) (Species Feat A)
You gain two elven racial traits (Elven Magic, Silent Hunter). These traits may include elven magic and/or traits which can be exchanged for elven magic. Alternatively, you may select a single trait which normally can be exchanged for elven magic and another trait, such as lightbringer (normally exchanged for elven immunities and elven magic) or spirit of the waters (elven magic and weapon familiarity).
Discerning Eye (mythic) (Species Feat B)
You receive a +3 racial bonus on saving throws against illusion spells and effects, a +3 bonus on Linguistic checks to detect forgeries, and a +3 bonus on Perception checks to oppose a creature’s Disguise or Sleight of Hand checks. You can use the Linguistic skill to detect forgeries untrained. If you fail a save or check on which this feat provides a bonus, you can expend one use of mythic power to reroll.
Improved Initiative(racial)
You get a +4 bonus on initiative checks.
Run (racial)
When running, you move five times your normal speed (if wearing medium, light, or no armor and carrying no more than a medium load) or four times your speed (if wearing heavy armor or carrying a heavy load). If you make a jump after a running start (see the Acrobatics skill description), you gain a +4 bonus on your Acrobatics check. While running, you retain your Dexterity bonus to your Armor Class.
Skill Focus – stealth (racial)
You get a +6 bonus on all stealth checks.
Combat Stamina (Adaptive Learning – counts as a fighter)
You gain a stamina pool. After you make an attack roll with a manufactured weapon, unarmed strike, or natural weapon attack with which you are proficient, but before the results are revealed, you can spend up to 5 stamina points. If you do, you gain a competence bonus on the attack roll equal to the number of stamina points you spent. If you miss with the attack, the stamina points you spent are still lost.
Special: Since you have a stamina pool, you can spend your stamina points to use any combat tricks associated with combat feats you possess.
Weapon Proficiency (flails) (lvl 1)
You make attack rolls with weapons from the selected group normally (without the non-proficient penalty).
Spell Penetration (lvl 3)
You get a +2 bonus on caster level checks (1d20 + caster level) made to overcome a creature's spell resistance.
Greater Spell Penetration (lvl 4)
You get a +2 bonus on caster level checks (1d20 + caster level) made to overcome a creature's spell resistance. This bonus stacks with the one from Spell Penetration.
Dodge (lvl 5)
You gain a +1 dodge bonus to your AC. This bonus increases to +4 against attacks of opportunity caused when you move out of or within a threatened tile. A condition that makes you lose your Dex bonus to AC also makes you lose the benefits of this feat.
Shield Focus (lvl 6)
Increase the AC bonus granted by any shield you are using by 1. This bonus increases to 5 against ranged attacks (not including spell effects, natural attacks, or massive ranged weapons).
Unhindering Shield (lvl 7)
You still gain a buckler’s bonus to AC even if you use your shield hand for some other purpose. When you wield a buckler, your shield hand is considered free for the purposes of casting spells, wielding weapons, and using any other abilities that require you to have a free hand or interact with your shield, such as the swashbuckler’s precise strike deed or the Weapon Finesse feat.
Special: A monk with this feat is not considered to be using a shield for the purposes of his AC bonus, fast movement, or flurry of blows.
Oslyluth Guile (lvl 8)
While you are fighting defensively or using the total defense action, select one opponent. Add your Charisma bonus to your AC as a dodge bonus against that opponent’s melee attacks until your next turn. You cannot use this feat if you cannot see the selected opponent.
Disruptive (lvl 9)
The DC to cast spells defensively increases by +4 for all enemies that are within your threatened area. This increase to casting spells defensively only applies if you are aware of the enemy’s location and are capable of taking an attack of opportunity. If you can only take one attack of opportunity per round and have already used that attack, this increase does not apply.
Spellbreaker (lvl 10)
Benefit: Enemies in your threatened area that fail their checks to cast spells defensively provoke attacks of opportunity from you.
Wanderer’s Fortune (lvl 11)
As a swift action, you gain the benefits of freedom of movement until the end of your turn or until you benefit from the effects to escape a grapple or magical restraint, whichever comes first.
You can use this feat’s benefit once per day, plus an additional time per day for every 5 ranks you have in Knowledge (planes).
Two Weapon Fighting (lvl 12)
Your penalties on attack rolls for fighting with two weapons are reduced. The penalty for your primary hand lessens by 2 and the one for your off hand lessens by 6.
Greater Two Weapon Fighting (lvl 13)
In addition to the standard single extra attack you get with an off-hand weapon, you get a second attack with it, albeit at a -5 penalty. When your base attack bonus reaches +11, you also gain a third attack with your off-hand weapon, albeit at a -10 penalty.
(lvl 14)
Weapon Focus (Flails) (lvl 15)
You gain a +1 bonus on all attack rolls you make using any weapon from the selected group.
Whip Mastery (lvl 16)
You no longer provoke attacks of opportunity when attacking with a whip. You can deal lethal damage with a whip, although you can still deal nonlethal damage when you want. Further, you can deal damage with a whip despite a creature’s armor bonus or natural armor bonus.
Improved Whip Mastery (lvl 17)
While wielding a whip, you threaten the area of your natural reach plus 5 feet. You can also use a whip to grasp an unattended Small or Tiny object within your whip’s reach and pull that object into your square. To do so, you must hit AC 10 with a melee touch attack. Further, you can use the whip to grasp onto an object within your whip’s reach, using 5 feet of your whip as if it were a grappling hook, allowing you to use the rest of your whip to swing on like a rope. As a free action, you can release the object your whip is grasping, but you cannot use the whip to attack while the whip is grasping an object.
*** (lvl 18)
*** (lvl 19)
*** (lvl 20)
Mythic
Mythic Tier 1
Mythic Path: Path of the Bound
Bound Pact: Eldritch Wish (Sp)
As a swift action, you can expend one use of mythic power to cast any one spell as a spell-like ability without expending a spell slot or prepared spell. If the spell has a focus or material component, you must provide it. The spell may be from the cleric, shaman, sorcerer/wizard, or witch spell list. It must be of a spell level less than or equal to your tier. Your caster level for this spell is equal to your character level. The save DC is equal to 10 + spell level + your tier. You cannot choose the same spell twice in one day.
Path Abilities:
Lvl 1: Spirit Versatility (Ex)
When you bind with a mediumOA spirit you may choose one mythic path ability from the aligned mythic path (archmage path for the archmage spirit, etc). You must meet the prerequisites for this mythic path ability and may use it as if it were one of your normal mythic path powers until you are no longer bound with that spirit.
Bonus Universal Path Ability: ???
Mythic Feat
Select one mythic feat or non-mythic feat as a bonus feat. You must qualify for this feat normally. You gain another mythic feat at 3rd tier, and again every 2 tiers thereafter.
Hard to Kill (Ex)
Whenever you’re below 0 hit points, you automatically stabilize without needing to attempt a Constitution check. If you have an ability that allows you to act while below 0 hit points, you still lose hit points for taking actions, as specified by that ability. Bleed damage still causes you to lose hit points when below 0 hit points. In addition, you don’t die until your total number of negative hit points is equal to or greater than double your Constitution score.
Mythic Power (Su)
Mythic characters can draw upon a wellspring of power to accomplish amazing deeds and cheat fate. This power is used by a number of different abilities. Each day, you can expend an amount of mythic power equal to 3 plus double your mythic tier (5/day at 1st tier, 7/day at 2nd, etc.). This amount is your maximum amount of mythic power. If an ability allows you to regain uses of your mythic power, you can never have more than this amount.
Surge (Su)
You can call upon your mythic power to overcome difficult challenges. You can expend one use of mythic power to increase any d20 roll you just made by rolling 1d6 and adding it to the result. Using this ability is an immediate action taken after the result of the original roll is revealed. This can change the outcome of the roll. The bonus die gained by using this ability increases to 1d8 at 4th tier, 1d10 at 7th tier, and 1d12 at 10th tier.
Skills 20*(6+2 bonus+1 skilled+5(int) /lvl) (Ranks, skill roll. NOT INCLUDING ACP)
Stealth +6 skill focus (+ 10 vs traps, trapfinding)
Disable Device (+ 10 vs traps, trapfinding)
Escape Artist
Sense Motive
Intimidate
Diplomacy
Bluff
Acrobatics
Perception +2 Keen Senses
Spellcraft (+2 to ID items, Elven Magic)
UMD
Survival
K Planes
Ride
Fly
Disguise
Background Skills (20*2 = 40 ranks)
Handle Animal
Perform (Dance)
Sleight of Hand
Languages: Common, Elven, Draconic (int),
ABP
Armor Attunement: At 17th level, she can either grant a suit of armor or a shield a +5 enhancement bonus or grant one a +4 enhancement bonus and the other a +3 enhancement bonus.
Deflection: +5 deflection to AC
Mental Prowess: +6 Cha +2 wis +2 int (all enhancement)
Physical Prowess: +6 Dex +2 Con +2 Str (all enhancement)
Resistance: +5 resistance to all saves
Toughening: +5 enhancement bonus to natural Armor
Weapon Attunement: At 17th level, she can either grant a single weapon a +5 enhancement bonus or grant one weapon a +4 enhancement bonus and another weapon a +3 enhancement bonus.
Legendary Gifts (8)
Legendary Mind I (2), Legendary Body I (2), Legendary Mind II,
Class Skills:
The legendary medium’s class skills are Appraise (Int), Bluff (Cha), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disguise (Cha), Fly (Dex), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (all) (Int), Linguistics (Int), Perception (Wis), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Spellcraft (Int), and Use Magic Device (Cha).
The legendary ranger’s class skills are Acrobatics (Dex), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Escape Artist (Dex), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (dungeoneering) (Int), Knowledge (geography) (Int), Knowledge (local) (Int), Knowledge (nature) (Int), Perception (Wis), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Spellcraft (Int), Stealth (Dex), Survival (Wis), and Swim (Str).
Weapon and Armor Proficiency:
Legendary Mediums are proficient with all simple weapons and martial weapons and with light and medium armor, but not with shields.
A legendary ranger is proficient with all simple and martial weapons and with light armor, medium armor, and shields (except tower shields).
Adaptive Learning (Ex)
The legendary ranger doesn’t learn to be strong in every way. Instead, he learns to use his strengths in every way. This applies to learning as well, allowing the legendary ranger to master techniques he otherwise wouldn’t be able to. When choosing feats, if a feat requires a certain minimum ability score, the legendary ranger is considered to meet that requirement. He must still meet any other requirements. In addition, the legendary ranger counts his legendary ranger class levels as fighter levels for the purpose of qualifying for feats. If he has levels in fighter, these levels stack.
Natural Gift
The first rule of survival is to use what you have, and everyone has something. At 1st level, the legendary ranger cultivates one specific ability, which will be his greatest asset. Although he will continue to gain abilities in other areas, this will always be his strongest ability.The legendary ranger may choose one of the natural gifts listed in the natural gifts section. Once chosen, the gift cannot be changed.
Sizeshifter (Su)
The legendary ranger can alter his physical size without changing his actual shape. He can grow (if he has room) or shrink, and his equipment changes size with him. Melee weapons do more damage or less damage if grown or shrunk respectively, but any item that leaves the legendary ranger’s possession (including a projectile or thrown weapon) instantly returns to its normal size. This means that thrown weapons deal their normal damage, but other ranged weapons still deal damage based on the size of the weapon that fired them. Being rendered unconscious or asleep causes the legendary ranger to regain their normal size.
The legendary ranger may become Tiny, Small, Medium, or Large, and may remain that way for as long as he wishes. At 9th level, he may also become Diminutive or Huge, and at 17th level he may also become Fine or Gargantuan.
The benefits and penalties of a size change are outlined on the Size Effects table. The legendary ranger’s Size Modifier applies to his attack rolls and AC, the Fly and Stealth Modifiers modify checks with those skills, and the Strength and Dexterity modifiers modify those attributes. The reach specified is their natural reach at that size, not including reach weapons.
If the legendary ranger’s default size isn’t medium, then subtract the modifiers for his normal size from the size he has become. The legendary ranger may shift sizes as a full-round action. At 5th level, shifting sizes becomes a standard action, at 9th level it is a move action, at 13th level the legendary ranger may shift sizes as a swift action, and at 17th level it is a free action.
While using this ability, the legendary ranger cannot benefit from (or be burdened by) size changes from other sources. If the legendary ranger is polymorphed into another creature, they are still limited to the sizes they were before, plus whatever size their new form has.
Quarry (Ex)
A legendary ranger’s most well-known ability is tracking creatures: detecting them, locating them, identifying them, and observing important details about them. These abilities come with the limitation that the legendary ranger must concentrate his attention on the target in order to do these things properly. So, the legendary ranger learns to focus his concentration and attention on one creature: his quarry. To make a creature his quarry, the legendary ranger must take a moment to gather his thoughts and visualize the creature in his mind. This means the legendary ranger must know enough about the creature to identify and describe them. Once per round as a free action, the legendary ranger can make anyone he remembers encountering and interacting with in for at least 10 minutes in the past 24 hours his quarry. If a legendary ranger is extremely familiar with someone, he can make them his quarry up to 1 year after encountering them. This includes anyone he has spent an extended period of time interacting with (at least 2 hours total). Even if the creature is not present, the legendary ranger can make them his quarry.
If the legendary ranger meets a creature, he can study it so that he makes it his quarry immediately. A legendary ranger can make any creature his quarry if he can see them (or sense in a unique way, such as by using a form of blindsense) as a move action. Finally, a legendary ranger can also make a creature his quarry based on evidence of their presence, without even knowing exactly who they are. If a legendary ranger makes a successful Survival or Perception skill check to find tracks or other signs of a creature’s passage, he may make that creature his quarry as a standard action. If the legendary ranger fails, he may not try to quarry that creature again for 24 hours, unless he discovers tracks or other signs of passage at a different, unrelated location.
A legendary ranger has several special abilities that relate to his quarry:
A legendary ranger is skilled in finding his quarry. When making Survival skill checks made to follow his quarry’s tracks, the legendary ranger adds half his class level (minimum 1) to his check and can move at his normal speed while using following tracks without taking the normal –5 penalty. He takes only a –10 penalty (instead of the normal –20) when moving at up to twice normal speed while tracking.
When making Perception skill checks to locate his quarry (such as if the quarry is invisible or hiding), to confirm their identity (such as if the quarry is disguised), or to determine if something belongs to the quarry or was left behind by them, the legendary ranger adds 1/2 his level (minimum 1) to his check.
A legendary ranger may attempt to use a Knowledge check to identify the creature type of his quarry based on its tracks or evidence of their passage.
A legendary ranger may make a Perception skill check against his quarry’s Disguise or Bluff check (whichever is higher) to gain some information about its condition at the time they were present, just by looking at the quarry’s tracks. They may learn the following: whether the creature was badly injured (has less than half of its hit points), whether it had any conditions that affect its movement (such as blindness or a missing leg), or whether it was encumbered. The legendary ranger can also tell whether the quarry was running or walking.
A quarry lasts until the legendary ranger chooses a different quarry. For the purpose of this ability, a troop or swarm is considered a single creature.
Predation (Ex) (+5, +5d6)
When a legendary ranger attacks his quarry, his increased focus makes him even deadlier. The legendary ranger gains a +1 insight bonus to attack rolls against his quarry, and deals an additional 1d6 precision damage against them on all attacks. These bonuses increase by +1 and +1d6 respectively at 5th, 9th, 13th, and 17th level.
Wildspeak (Ex)
A legendary ranger is skilled in speaking with creatures that are close to nature. He can speak with any creature with the animal or magical beast type or communicate with them as if he spoke their language if they don’t have one. In addition, he gains a bonus equal to half his class level (minimum 1) to his Diplomacy checks against such creatures when he attempts to influence their attitude. As a legendary ranger grows more experienced, he learns to do this with more exotic creatures. At 5th level, he may use this ability with any creature of the monstrous humanoid or fey types, at 9th level, he may use this ability with vermin and plants, at 13th level, he may use this ability with elementals and oozes. At 17th level, he may speak with the earth itself, communicating with rocks, rivers, and soil as if it were intelligent. For this purpose, treat each 30-foot by 30-foot section of earth as a separate intelligent creature, unless an obvious physical landmark is larger than that, with an alignment and temperament befitting that sort of terrain. The earth is aware of what has happened to it and has some understanding of events that have occurred in its presence (though it doesn’t speak common languages).
Ranger Talents (Ex)
Beginning at 2nd level, the legendary ranger may gain ranger talents. He gains one at 2nd level and additional talent every even level thereafter. Some talents require the legendary ranger to have a minimum class level, while others interact with specific class features. If the does not have a specific class feature (either by being of insufficient level or by trading that feature away by an archetype) he cannot gain that talent. Some natural gifts add additional choices to the list of talents a legendary ranger may choose from, and some archetypes do so as well.
Lvl 2: Natural Grace (ex): The legendary ranger may add his Dexterity modifier in place of his Strength modifier on damage rolls when making attacks using a weapon that benefits from the Weapon Finesse feat, and when making attacks with throwing weapons.
Lvl 4: See as the prey (ex, 4th Level): Even the greatest hunter can be hunted. The legendary ranger gains the trapfinding and danger sense abilities of an unchained rogue of equal level. This stacks with any he possesses in a class with the danger sense ability. In addition, Disable Device (Dex) becomes a class skill for the legendary ranger.
Trapfinding (+10): A rogue adds 1/2 her level on Perception checks to locate traps and on Disable Device checks (minimum +1). A rogue can use Disable Device to disarm magic traps.
Danger Sense (+6) (Ex): At 3rd level, a rogue gains a +1 bonus on Reflex saves to avoid traps and a +1 dodge bonus to AC against attacks made by traps. In addition, she gains a +1 bonus on Perception checks to avoid being surprised by a foe. These bonuses increase by 1 every 3 rogue levels thereafter (to a maximum of +6 at 18th level). This ability counts as trap sense for the purpose of any feat or class prerequisite, and can be replaced by any archetype class feature that replaces trap sense. The bonuses gained from this ability stack with those gained from trap sense (from another class).
Lvl 6: Skilled Sizing (Su, 6th level): Reduce any Strength or Dexterity penalty the legendary ranger has from his sizeshifter ability by 4. This cannot turn a penalty into a bonus.
Lvl 8: Ancient Ways (ex) :The best rangers rediscover the secrets of their forefathers and learn to rely on their peripheral vision and hearing. The legendary ranger always acts on the surprise round. At 6th level, he gains uncanny dodge as a rogue of equal level, and at 12th level, he gains improved uncanny dodge.
Lvl 10: Defensive Hunting (+5) (ex) (Quarry) : As long as the legendary ranger is focused on his quarry, their every move is predictable. He gains a +1 bonus to his CMD, and as a dodge bonus to AC attacked by his quarry. This bonus increases by +1 at 5th level, and every 4 levels thereafter, to a maximum of +5 at 17th level.
Lvl 12: Fist of Resolve (ex, 6th Level): The legendary ranger has learned that weakness can be banished from the flesh with a simple punch in the face. The resulting flash of pain clears the mind and makes him able to function normally despite physical ailments. As a swift action, the ranger does 2d6 damage to himself. This damage cannot be reduced in any way. Afterward, any confused, fascinated, frightened, nauseated, panicked, shaken, or sickened condition that is afflicting the legendary ranger ceases to have any effect, though he still has the condition for all other purposes, includes conditions that stack with each other to create new conditions.
The legendary ranger may use this ability, even if nauseated or confused, but not if he is unable to move.
Lvl 14: Full Moon Invocation (sp) (12th Level): Once per day, the legendary ranger may perform a ceremony to invoke the powers of nature in a way far more powerful than he normally can. At the end of the ceremony, the legendary ranger chooses a druid spell with a level no greater than half his legendary ranger level. At the end of the ceremony, he may cast that spell as a spell-like ability, using his legendary ranger level as his druid level.
The ceremony takes as long as the casting time of the spell to perform, with a minimum of 1 minute. The legendary ranger must also provide any special components required by the ceremony. The ceremony can be interrupted as spellcasting can, but the ceremony can be restarted by adding one additional minute to the time involved.
Lvl 16: ???
Lvl 18: ???
Lvl 20: Eternal Spring (su, 20th Level): The power of nature literally flows through the legendary ranger’s veins, restoring them whenever they are injured. The legendary ranger gains fast healing 5 and can no longer be killed by taking hit point damage (although he still falls unconscious if below 1 hit point). The legendary ranger can be permanently killed if his body is burned, melted with acid, disintegrated, or completely destroyed.
Relentless Stride
At 3rd level, the legendary ranger learns to move more effectively in different environments. When he succeeds on a Climb check, he may move his full speed without penalty, or he may move half his speed while continuing to use a shield.
He may also move his full speed when he succeeds on a Swim check, and he may move through any sort of undergrowth (such as natural thorns, briars, overgrown areas, and similar terrain) at his normal speed and without taking damage or suffering any other impairment, and is not affected by tripping effects caused by slick or icy surfaces, magical or otherwise.
At 7th level, the legendary ranger has an incredible lightness to his step. Provided he starts his turn on normal ground, he can move on any surface as if it were the ground, like walls and ceilings. He falls if his movement ends or he falls prone. As a swift action, he may make a Climb skill check to use a hand to cling to the surface he has walked on this way.
He can also walk across water without sinking or taking damage but sinks normally if he stops his movement or falls prone. He cannot begin his movement on water.
Improved Quarry (Ex)
As a legendary ranger becomes more skilled at hunting, he learns to make creatures his quarry with greater efficiency.
Charging Focus: At 3rd level, the legendary ranger may quarry a creature as a move action and move towards that creature (or direct his mount to move towards that creature) as part of the same move action. He may quarry as part of a charge.
Sudden Focus: At 7th level, the legendary ranger may quarry a creature he can see as a swift action.
Perceptive Focus: At 11th level, the legendary ranger may make creatures his quarry even if he cannot see them, provided he knows they are present by making a Perception skill check vs the creature’s Stealth, Disguise or Bluff check (as appropriate). This is a move action and can be part of the same action used to find the creature.
Instant Focus: At 15th level, the legendary ranger may make any creature that attacks him his quarry as an immediate action.
Close Focus: At 19th level, the legendary ranger may make an adjacent creature he can see his quarry as a free action.
Spells
Beginning at 4th level, a legendary ranger gains the ability to cast a small number of divine spells, which are drawn from the ranger spell list. A legendary ranger must choose and prepare his spells in advance.
To prepare or cast a spell, a legendary ranger must have a Wisdom score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a legendary ranger’s spell is 10 + the spell level + the legendary ranger’s Wisdom modifier.
Like other spell casters, a legendary ranger can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. His base daily spell allotment is given on Table: Legendary Ranger. In addition, he receives bonus spells per day if he has a high Wisdom score (see Table: Ability Modifiers and Bonus Spells). When Table: Legendary Ranger indicates that the legendary ranger gets 0 spells per day of a given spell level, he gains only the bonus spells he would be entitled to based on his Wisdom score for that spell level.
A legendary ranger must spend 1 hour per day in quiet meditation to regain his daily allotment of spells. A legendary ranger may prepare and cast any spell on the ranger spell list, provided he can cast spells of that level, but he must choose which spells to prepare during his daily meditation.
Through 3rd level, a legendary ranger has no caster level. At 4th level and higher, his caster level is equal to his legendary ranger level.
Hunter’s Edge (Ex)
At 5th level, a legendary ranger has mastered a single skill beyond that skill’s normal boundaries, gaining a level of ability few can match. He may choose a skill from the legendary ranger’s list of class skills. He gains the skill unlock powers for that skill as appropriate for his number of ranks in that skill. At 10th, 15th, and 20th level, he chooses an additional skill from the legendary ranger’s list of class skills and gains skill unlock powers for that skill as well.
Lvl 5: Stealth
Lvl 10: Sense Motive
Lvl 15: Intimidate
Lvl 20: Escape Artist
Covert Nature (Ex)
A legendary ranger of 7th level or higher can use the Stealth skill even while being observed and without needing cover or concealment. The legendary ranger normally leaves no trail and cannot be tracked (though he may leave a trail if he so chooses).
At 11th level, the legendary ranger learns to apply common materials to his clothing to remove odors while remaining downwind of enemies. He can apply his Stealth skill to avoid being detected by scent (though he still can be tracked by it). He also learns special techniques to disguise himself from blindsight and blindsense, as well as any other senses, so that he may always make a Stealth skill to avoid being detected. He cannot do this while talking or using spells with verbal components.
Evasion (Ex)
At 11th level, a legendary ranger can avoid even magical and unusual attacks with great agility. If he makes a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, he instead takes no damage. Evasion can be used only if the legendary ranger is not wearing heavy armor. A helpless legendary ranger does not gain the benefit of evasion.
At 15th level, the legendary ranger gains improved evasion and takes half damage even if he fails his Reflex saving throw.
Stillsense (Ex)
At 15th level, a legendary ranger becomes skilled in noticing tiny vibrations, shifts in air currents (or water currents, if underwater), and tiny movements across surfaces from changes in pressure. This works as a form of blindsight with a range of 30 feet that only detects creatures and objects that have moved (such as by attacking, changing location, casting a spell with somatic components, or making a skill check using Strength or Dexterity) within the past round. A creature that stops moving does not instantly become invisible to this sense; they are still noticeable until the air around them has stopped moving, which doesn’t happen until the end of their next turn. Creatures that are completely intangible are naturally invisible to this sense. This ability is not impeded if the legendary ranger is deafened in any way but does stop functioning if there is no air. Winds greater than 30mph can create blind spots downwind of the legendary ranger.
This sense works continuously, and the legendary ranger may spend his move action to concentrate on the ability, doubling the range until the beginning of his next turn. This draws attacks of opportunity from adjacent enemies.
At 19th level, the range on this sense doubles to 60 feet.
Perfect Survivor (Ex)
At 19th level, a legendary ranger becomes able to survive almost anywhere. The legendary ranger becomes immune to nonlethal damage as well as all forms of poison and disease. In addition, he may spend a swift action to focus his force of will, granting himself 20 temporary hit points. The temporary hit points last for 24 hours. These temporary hit points do not stack with themselves or other temporary hit points.
Apex Predator (ex)
A legendary ranger of 20th level reaches the top of the food chain. Whenever he attacks his quarry and misses with a roll that is not a natural 1, he hits his quarry, but the damage is halved.
Spells
A Legendary Medium casts psychic spells drawn from the medium spell list (Additional medium spells can be found here). A Legendary Medium must prepare his spells ahead of time, but his spells are not expended when they’re cast. Instead, he can cast any spell that he has prepared while consuming a spell slot of the appropriate level, assuming he hasn’t yet used up his spell slots per day for that level.
To prepare, or cast a spell, the legendary medium must have a Charisma score equal to at least 10 + the spell’s level. The saving throw DC against a legendary medium’s spell is 10 + the spell’s level + the legendary medium’s Charisma modifier.
A legendary medium can only cast a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. His base daily spell allotment is given on Table: Legendary Medium under “Spells per Day.” In addition, he receives bonus spells per day if he has a high Charisma score.
The number of spells a Legendary Medium can prepare each day is limited. At 1st level, he can prepare two 0-level spells at the start of the day. At each new Legendary Medium level, the number of spells he can prepare each day increases, adding new spell levels as indicated on Table: Legendary Medium Spells Prepared. Unlike the number of spells he can cast per day, the number of spells a legendary medium can prepare each day is not affected by his Charisma score. Feats and other effects that modify the number of spells known by a spellcaster instead affect the number of spells a legendary medium can prepare. When Table: Legendary Medium indicates that the legendary medium gets 0 spells per day of a given spell level, he gains only the bonus spells he would be entitled to based on his Charisma score for that spell level.
A legendary medium must choose and prepare his spells ahead of time by getting 8 hours of sleep and spending 1 hour channeling the psychic energies of the spirit world. While channeling, the legendary medium decides what spells to prepare and refreshes his available spell slots for the day. A legendary medium does not have a list of spells known; he may prepare any spell from the medium spell list, provided that he can cast spells of that level.
Like a sorcerer, a legendary medium can choose to apply any metamagic feats he knows to a prepared spell as he casts it, with the same increase in casting time. However, he may also prepare a spell with any metamagic feats he knows and cast it without increasing casting time like a wizard. He cannot combine these options—a spell prepared with metamagic feats cannot be further modified with another metamagic feat at the time of casting.
A legendary medium also possesses several additional spell slots which can only be used when the legendary medium is channeling a spellcasting spirit (a spirit which grants additional spells known as its base spirit ability. The number of additional spirit spell slots per level available to a legendary medium of any given level is denoted in parentheses (for example, while channeling the archmage, a 16th-level legendary medium possesses 2 additional 1st- and 2nd-level spell slots, 3 additional 3rd-, and 4th-level spell slots, 3 5th-level spell slots, and 1 6th-level spell slot). If the legendary medium possesses both normal spell slots and spirit spell slots for a given spell level, normal spell slots are expended before spirit spell slots when casting spells of that level. A Legendary Medium’s caster level is equal to his Legendary Medium level.
Knacks
Legendary Mediums learn a number of knacks, or 0-level spells, as noted on Table: Legendary Medium Spells Prepared. These spells are cast like any other spell, but they don’t consume slots and can be used again.
Assertion Pool (Su)
At 1st level, the legendary medium gains a reservoir of psychic willpower that he can draw upon to assert influence over his spirits. This assertion pool has a number of points equal to 1/2 his legendary medium level + his Charisma modifier (minimum 1). The pool refreshes once per day when the legendary medium prepares his spells.
Spirit (Su)
A legendary medium serves as a vessel to channel spirits—powerful entities which may be the souls of bygone heroes, vestiges of forgotten gods, fragments of powerful outsiders, manifestations of the local environment, or any number of other mysterious and powerful entities. A legendary medium can channel a spirit through a ritual known as a seance. Seances take 10 minutes to perform and require the legendary medium’s concentration. At the end of a seance, the legendary medium invokes a spirit of his choice to inhabit him until he chooses to release the spirit or invokes a new spirit. Each spirit arises from one of several legends, which are described further later in. The legendary medium gains the spirit’s listed seance boon and base spirit power for as long as they continue to channel the spirit. The legendary medium also gains the spirit’s intermediate spirit power at 6th level, its greater spirit power at 11th level, and its supreme spirit power at 17th level.
A legendary medium can invite his allies to participate in his seance, performing a shared seance which can grant several benefits. A character counts as participating so long as they maintain physical contact with another participating character and willfully opens themself to the spirit; unlike the legendary medium, other participating characters can take other actions during this time. Only creatures with an Intelligence score of at least 3 can participate in a seance.
Spirit Bonus (Su)
When a legendary medium channels a spirit, he gains a bonus on certain checks and to certain statistics, depending on the spirit. A 1st-level legendary medium’s spirit bonus is +1; it increases by 1 at 4th level and every 4 levels thereafter. Certain other abilities may increase this bonus further.
Spirit Surge (Su)
When making a d20 roll that is increased by the legendary medium’s spirit bonus, the legendary medium can spend an assertion point as a free action to add 1d6 to the roll. This action may be taken even when it is not your turn. By spending 2 points of assertion, the legendary medium may instead do this after learning of the success or failure of the roll. This can cause the check to succeed instead of fail. The legendary medium must be conscious and aware to use this ability, and he can use this ability at most once per round. At 10th level, the legendary medium’s spirit surge die increases to 1d8, to 1d10 at 14th level, and to 1d12 at 18th level.
Spirit Dance (Su)
Each day when he prepares his spells, a spirit dancer makes all his spirit power choices as if he were channeling one spirit of each of the legends. He does not always possess the seance boon, spirit bonus, spirit powers, or spirit surge ability from any of these spirits.
Instead, he can enter a spirit dance as a free action to gain the aforementioned abilities from one of the spirits he prepared during his seance for the duration of his spirit dance. He can end his spirit dance or change which spirit he is utilizing with spirit dance as a free action. A spirit dancer continues to track daily uses of abilities from each of his spirits even while he is not in a spirit dance.
This ability alters spirit and spirit bonus and replaces spirit feats.
Shared Séance (Su)
At 2nd level, a legendary medium can share his channeled spirit’s aid with his allies. All allies who participate in the legendary medium’s seance gain the channeled spirit’s seance boon for so long as the legendary medium continues to channel that spirit.
Spirit Aura (Su)
At 2nd level, a spirit dancer’s weaving forms create an aura that grants his current seance boon to all allies within 30 feet. When he grants a seance boon that requires a decision, each ally makes the appropriate decision the first time that ally receives that spirit’s aura each day. That decision remains in effect if the ally is affected by that spirit’s aura again later that day.
This ability replaces shared seance.
Spirit Affinity (Su)
At 3rd level and every 4 levels thereafter, the legendary medium learns of a new technique for communicating with or controlling spirits. These techniques are known as Spirit Affinities. Unless specifically noted in a spirit affinity’s description, a legendary medium cannot select a particular spirit affinity more than once.
Lvl 3: Spiritual Defense: While you are wearing light or no armor and not carrying a shield, you gain a bonus to your AC and CMD equal to your Charisma modifier. This bonus to AC applies even against touch attacks or when you are flat-footed. You lose this bonus when you are immobilized or helpless.
Lvl 7: Plentiful Magic: You gain one additional spirit spell slot of each level for which you possess spirit spell slots.
Lvl 11: Spell Resistance: You gain spell resistance equal to 11 + your legendary medium level. You may lower or reinstate this spell resistance as a standard action. This lowering lasts until you reinstate your spell resistance. By spending an assertion point, you may lower your spell resistance even when you would not otherwise be able to take actions.
Lvl 15: Wrangle Condition: You gain the Wrangle Condition ability of an animist shaman of your legendary medium level. There is no limit to the number of times you may use this ability, but you must spend an assertion point every time you use it.
Lvl 19:
Spirit Feat (Su) (4 Feats)
At 5th level, the legendary medium learns to forge a deeper connection to the experiences and skills of his spirit. When the legendary medium invokes a spirit, he may select a single feat for which he meets the prerequisites (this includes feats which the legendary medium would only meet the prerequisites for so long as they bind the spirit). The legendary medium gains the feat as a bonus feat for so long as he continues to channel the spirit and can change the feat whenever he renews a new spirit. Spirit Feats can be used as prerequisites for other Spirit Feats or feats which can be selected using a Spirit Ability (such as those gained from the Martial Prowess ability of the Champion spirit). Item Creation feats cannot be selected as Spirit Feats. At 9th level and every 4 levels thereafter, the legendary medium gains an additional spirit feat.
Trance of Many (Su)
At 10th level, the legendary medium learns how to channel the power of multiple different legends simultaneously. When the legendary medium selects which spirit to channel, he also selects a second spirit, gaining the intermediate ability of this second spirit in addition to the abilities of his primary spirit. This does not grant the spirit’s seance boon.
At 14th level, the legendary medium also gains the greater ability of a spirit other than the one he is channeling. This ability need not come from the same spirit which is providing the intermediate ability.
At 18th level, the legendary medium also gains the supreme ability of a spirit other than the one he is channeling. This ability need not come from the same spirit which is providing the intermediate ability or the greater ability.
Spirit Troika (Su): At 10th level, a spirit dancer learns to dance with two partners. When using spirit dance, he gains access to the abilities of any two spirits he prepared during his seance (if both spirits apply their spirit bonus to the same type of roll, it is only applied once). He may select a third spirit starting at 18th level.
This ability replaces trance of many.
Astral Beacon (Su)
At 20th level, a legendary medium becomes a shining beacon for spirits. As a free action by spending an assertion point, he can channel spirits of any of the legends he did not contact via his seance. This ability lasts for 1 round and grants access to the intermediate, greater, and supreme spirit powers of the chosen spirit.
Dance of Infinite Forms (Su)
At 20th level, a spirit dancer has perfected his dance, binding a large number of spirits to his will at once. By spending an assertion point when using spirit dance, a spirit dancer can gain the benefits of channeling up to six spirits at once for 1 round.
This ability replaces astral beacon.
Race Abilities, 30 RP
Type: Humanoid (elf, human) 0 RP
Size: Half-elves are Medium creatures and have no bonuses or penalties due to their size. 0 RP
Base Speed: Half-elves have a base speed of 30 feet. 0 RP
Ability Scores: Advanced (mental) 4 RP; +4 Dex +2 Int +2 Wis +4 (+2 and +2 bonus) Cha -2 Con
Languages: Half-elves begin play speaking Common and Elven. Half-elves with high Intelligence scores can choose any languages they want (except secret languages, such as Druidic). 1 RP
Racial Traits
Defense:
Defensive Training (greater) 4 RP; Members of this race gain a +2 dodge bonus to Armor Class.
Lucky (Lesser) 2 RP; Members of this race gain a +1 racial bonus on all saving throws.
Elven Immunities 2 RP; Members of this race are immune to magic sleep effects and gain a +2 racial bonus on saving throws made against enchantment spells and effects
Feats and Skills:
Keen Senses, 2 RP; Half-elves receive a +2 racial bonus on Perception checks.
Adaptability, 2 RP; Half-elves receive Skill Focus as a bonus feat at 1st level.
Skilled 4 RP; +1 skill ranks/level
Quick Reactions 2 RP; Members of this race receive Improved Initiative as a bonus feat.
Senses:
Low Light Vision 1 RP; Members of this race can see twice as far as a race with normal vision in conditions of dim light.
Movement
Fleet Footed 3 RP; Members of this race receive Run as a bonus feat and a +2 racial bonus on initiative checks.
Fast 1 RP; Members of this race gain a +10 foot bonus to their base speed.
Other:
Multitalented 2 RP; Half-elves choose two favored classes at 1st level and gain 1 additional hit point or skill point whenever they take a level in either one of those classes.
So looking at states
This given new rules should be right.
No Paid for state over 18 from your 1to1 30 Buy pool
No paid for with gold item that adds to stats
Then Levels 20/4=5x+2 to a state
20th level legendary gifts (8 total) Total so Both sides Gigstolt don't get ABP each side, etc
I used for APB 8 Legendary gifts =
2LG = Legendary Mind I / 2LG = Legendary Body I
1LG Legendary Mind II / 1LG = Legendary Body II
Last 2LG Spent on - Legendary Ability: Gain a +1 inherent bonus to any ability score. You can select this legendary gift multiple times, and it stacks up to +5 in any one ability score.
So my ELAN PC whos working Int as core state gets.
STATES
30 Point Buy + 5x[+2 LEVELS]
STR[16][+03][12][2p][Legendary Body ABP+6]
DEX[24][+07][18][8p][Legendary Body ABP+6]
CON[16][+03][12][2p][Legendary Body ABP+6]
INT[38][+14][18][8p][Race+2][Legendary Mind ABP+6][ABP Gifts+2][Levels+10]
WIS[24][+07][18][8p][Legendary Mind ABP+6]
CHA[16][+03][12][2p][Legendary Mind ABP+6]
The only way to can max more is say race,
With the loss of (-X) to any state, thats
+2 +2 -2 to most, unless you going more exsotic races like half giant etc. Where you could get the odd +4
So players should be around this level.
Any say 50 or 10 state builds out there and I think something is off
40 should be the max and 12 the min, Given race and ABP
give or take two points say.
That is a good point, Voice can you lower your starting state from 10?
taking to from one adding to another, etc, I read it as it being clear all states start at 10, but I could be wrong.
That is how I am seeing it, have a missed anything?
I would like to try and maybe keep gestalt(since ya know, it's in the subject line and all, lol), so perhaps we need to just greatly reduce some of the other stuff.
I'll think on it overnight, and see if anybody else has some good suggestions.
Again, I apologize if these changes are gonna ruin people's desire to play. I suppose worse case, I'll just have to fully ramp up the encounters....
I don't know, to reach those benchmark numbers, I believe you'll have to drop just about everything from your build rules. No gestalt, no 3pp classes, regular ability gain per level, lower point but and no 1 for 1, etc.
The biggest offender IMO is the 3pp material. Definitely cool, but utterly busted, specially when combining multiple systems. Limit the options to paizo only and you'll see the numbers tank very hard.
The problem with 3pp is that it not only lets you have your cake and eat it too, but then there 10 more cakes around lol.
My suggestions:
Gestalt: keep it
Ability score: 25 or 30 point buy, regular method.
Races: Regular races. No monstrous, no increase in stats or 30 points improvements.
Classes: 1pp only
HP: normal Hp
Traits: whatever, not really relevant
Wealth: standard lvl20/2 to account for ABP
House Rules: nothing problematic here
Other free stuff: remove the stat boosts. Feats are okish
Mythic: regular stats
Companions: no natural armor stacking.
First and foremost, let's try to cap things around the level 20 bench press numbers.
Given the build rules and resources you provided this is virtually impossible to do, even if not trying to break things. These numbers also dont account at all for power creep in the game.
I don't know, to reach those benchmark numbers, I believe you'll have to drop just about everything from your build rules. No gestalt, no 3pp classes, regular ability gain per level, lower point but and no 1 for 1, etc.
The biggest offender IMO is the 3pp material. Definitely cool, but utterly busted, specially when combining multiple systems. Limit the options to paizo only and you'll see the numbers tank very hard.
The problem with 3pp is that it not only lets you have your cake and eat it too, but then there 10 more cakes around lol.
My suggestions:
Gestalt: keep it
Ability score: 25 or 30 point buy, regular method.
Races: Regular races. No monstrous, no increase in stats or 30 points improvements.
Classes: 1pp only
HP: normal Hp
Traits: whatever, not really relevant
Wealth: standard lvl20/2 to account for ABP
House Rules: nothing problematic here
Other free stuff: remove the stat boosts. Feats are okish
Mythic: regular stats
Companions: no natural armor stacking.
This is all reasonable…except I’d love to allow the spheres of might/power. Just because I was excited to try blacksmith. :)
I would drop the bonus feats, though. Just keep the single bonus background feat. And for spheres I’d say no legendary talents without GM approval. That would turn off much of the cheese.
That said…yeah. Dropping all 3P to include spheres would go along way in making all the benchmark numbers being hit much more likely.
Sir Longears, I like your thinking, my suggestions are:
Gestalt: Keep it,
Ability score: ALL state start Base 10 {no dropping, Moving points}, Race Bonuses / 25 Point Normal buy, ABP Level 20 AKA APB 8 Legendary gifts.
Races: Paizo 'Playable' Races only Max RP14 [So no Noble drow, or max playable Monster races etc]
Classes: Legendary class one side of Gestalt / 1pp Class on the other side. [No Summoners, See Leadership]
HP: Max at 1st then Arrange HP after
Traits: 5 can have some same list but can not Double up Bonuses, so no Will save +1 from two traits.
Items, no pre game crafting, unless for flavor. Nothing at half/Price, {to make crafting on a game like this is anther feat tax, so everyone starts the same when it comes to items at start of game}
No Single Item over 125,000gp Hard limit there.
Wealth: Standard lvl20/2 to account for ABP
House Rules: TBC by GM
Feats: Normal {Players are getting a lot from Gestalt already.}
EITR, no feat tax as is.
*Leadership Band, sooo band along with any feat that give cohorts or followers, no Hirelings as well. Its you and your Fammil, companion only
Mythic: T1 as is.
Companions: no natural armor stacking, as said by Sir Longears
What if instead of asking the GM to change all the build rules we all took this as a fun challenge in character building? I don’t think it’s unreasonable to target those numbers, we just have to purposefully build well rounded characters instead of specialists. And, yeah, maybe stick mostly to paizo classes instead of 3pp ones that aren’t necessarily as well balanced (or, at least, pair one 3pp class with a more reasonable second class that strengthens weaknesses instead multiplying strengths).
Pretty much I think a 1P level 20 full bab character can hit thos numbers without trying too hard. Add anything else and you're going past those benchmarks.
If only we could, I am only talking of myself here, but I for one can't help myself. I just can't. You give me a Epic game and I have to see how far I can push it, there are so few chances to let rip with the PC building at this level.
I have found the one thing that kills epic game level play is Unbalanced PCs, you rock up with your Cleric/Monk, and there next to you is a Wizard with an Adamantite Golem in magic armor, that hits harder than you do, all while the wizard is calling leagens from hell. GM has to craft a challenge for all PCS, and with unbalanced pcs that is hard. Get it wrong and you have one shot kills someone PC. I have found hard rules on the build stop Muppets like me building Abominations, that brake the fun for others. I'm being truthful here.
{I am not kidding in another game Voice started, High level than this, I made a PC with 8 Cohors generals and a Million follower army}
Fun to make, but had to dump it, and pull back. But I agree we should limit what we make. So them rules are what I would give myself if I was my own GM.
I don’t think it’s unreasonable to target those numbers, we just have to purposefully build well rounded characters instead of specialists.
I agree with Panic here. For me, when I make an "epic character" for a game, I want to make it epic.
The "problem" with the idea of we self-limiting ourselves is that the build rules are so generous that we'll hit those numbers without even trying and then we'll have to look for a huge number of options/feats/magic items that do crap just because we can't go higher. And this is incredibly boring to be honest. This is why I don't play 2e, because they have a bunch of options and 90% of them suck hard.
I also have the opinion that specialist are much more fun to play than generalists. Again, with such generous building rules, by being "well-rounded" PCs, we'll still be very good at everything. If you pick two martials as your base class, you'll break the limit, so you'll need a spellcaster on one side. now everyone is a spellcaster. I personally do not find this really interesting.
Most I've done in the regions of powerful was in 3.5 where we made level 35 epic level characters. No gestalt
So for this
Gestalt
Level 20
Maybe mythic 2+?
HP as normal
25 or 30pt build (normal spend)
3 to 5 traits no stacking
Feats normal
Set a limit on magic gear per item
No precrafting
Wbl/2
Race wise I'm a bit biased to allow any non monster playable race :P
I started a build in this profile: Arykiel. She's basically a fey reflection of the iconic cleric Kyra, and idolizes her for her role in the events of Shattered Star.
I had gotten the impression from how Monkeygod introduced the adventure (and how it was described by a few reviewers) that this is supposed to be an extremely difficult challenge, but with these house rules it should be a little more reasonable for a play-by-post game. I was also tantalized by the idea that we might first play through something like the final fight with Karzoug to calibrate everything. :)
But even if the characters are totally overpowered, I still think it would be fun to play through it without lessening the build parameters. The epic nature is what tempted me to participate, after all. And if it's a cakewalk, at least the combats will be shorter and the game is less likely to stall. ;)
For people larger than medium, get a belt of the weasel. It provides compression so you can get by in half the normal space. Very useful.
Cronossuss Fallen of Time wrote:
I have found the one thing that kills epic game level play is Unbalanced PCs,
We once played Scion. It's a WOD spinoff where the characters are literally demigods and eventually become gods. The GM eventually said "Okay, I'm going to put some of monsters for the combat monster and others for the rest. I'll identify them. Stay in your lane."
With how unbalanced that game could be, this was needed.
For people larger than medium, get a belt of the weasel. It provides compression so you can get by in half the normal space. Very useful.
Cronossuss Fallen of Time wrote:
I have found the one thing that kills epic game level play is Unbalanced PCs,
We once played Scion. It's a WOD spinoff where the characters are literally demigods and eventually become gods. The GM eventually said "Okay, I'm going to put some of monsters for the combat monster and others for the rest. I'll identify them. Stay in your lane."
With how unbalanced that game could be, this was needed.
But even if the characters are totally overpowered, I still think it would be fun to play through it without lessening the build parameters. The epic nature is what tempted me to participate, after all. And if it's a cakewalk, at least the combats will be shorter and the game is less likely to stall. ;)
It is important to remember what is the GM's goal with the game. He must have fun as well and at least for me, playing monsters that have literally 0% chance of doing anything at all to the party is absurdly boring. If that is the case, there is no point in building the characters in the first place and the GM would approach each combat with "well, go ahead and narrate how you beat these monsters", because it would be effectively the same thing.
I can't speak for anyone but myself, but with epic characters, while I do want my PC to succeed and be awesome, I also want a challenge.
I don’t really get what seems to be the prevailing line of thought here… I suspect that this will be an unpopular post, but it seems like a lot of people are kind of saying “I’m not capable of building the type of character the GM wants with these rules, so everybody else should have to follow these others rules that will allow me to succeed.”
GMing is a tough job, that’s why there’s a shortage of GMs on the boards… maybe instead of stressing out one who’s actually trying to run something by asking them to make all these changes to suit us (or some of us) we could try to accommodate the GM by making characters within their rules that wouldn’t necessitate revamping the entire module (which they probably chose to use in the first place because they didn’t have time to design all the encounters for a super high level/power game)?
I don't know, to reach those benchmark numbers, I believe you'll have to drop just about everything from your build rules. No gestalt, no 3pp classes, regular ability gain per level, lower point but and no 1 for 1, etc.
The biggest offender IMO is the 3pp material. Definitely cool, but utterly busted, specially when combining multiple systems. Limit the options to paizo only and you'll see the numbers tank very hard.
The problem with 3pp is that it not only lets you have your cake and eat it too, but then there 10 more cakes around lol.
My suggestions:
Gestalt: keep it
Ability score: 25 or 30 point buy, regular method.
Races: Regular races. No monstrous, no increase in stats or 30 points improvements.
Classes: 1pp only
HP: normal Hp
Traits: whatever, not really relevant
Wealth: standard lvl20/2 to account for ABP
House Rules: nothing problematic here
Other free stuff: remove the stat boosts. Feats are okish
Mythic: regular stats
Companions: no natural armor stacking.
I endorse this entirely (even though I was looking hard at a Taninim Draconic Exemplar). Too much of the 3pp stuff isn’t balanced well against 1pp, which means the PCs will be at wildly varying power levels when one guy builds a 1pp-Dex-based martial and the other guy comes with a Path of War/Spheres of Might/Legendary monstrosity. Not only does that likely make the chosen party unbalanced, but it means that applicants who are less familiar with 3pp are at a disadvantage in submissions, and less likely to be picked.
This is high level and crazy enough that I wouldn’t want to run two tables, but maybe consider running one based on Sir Longears’ suggestions first, and if that goes well and you’ve got a good handle on it, then run it again with loosened up rules and cranked up enemies?
I don’t really get what seems to be the prevailing line of thought here… I suspect that this will be an unpopular post, but it seems like a lot of people are kind of saying “I’m not capable of building the type of character the GM wants with these rules, so everybody else should have to follow these others rules that will allow me to succeed.”
GMing is a tough job, that’s why there’s a shortage of GMs on the boards… maybe instead of stressing out one who’s actually trying to run something by asking them to make all these changes to suit us (or some of us) we could try to accommodate the GM by making characters within their rules that wouldn’t necessitate revamping the entire module (which they probably chose to use in the first place because they didn’t have time to design all the encounters for a super high level/power game)?
Challenge accepted!
Bolvar…dropped Legendary Rogue. Lowered strength and pumped up Con. Dropped weapon focus.
Wearing Adamantine Plate (+4 max dex due to class) and has a quickdraw shield.
10 (base) + 4 (dex) +14 (armor) + 6 (shield) + 5 (natural armor) + 5 (deflection) = 44
Sphere Cleric. Big focus on life sphere. Makes him into a healer.
That would work, I suppose. Not the happiest of the cleric bit but it works. Spheres makes building the caster part much easier.
So yeah. It takes some work, but I think that the challenge can be met of keeping the character more or less near the benchmark. It just isn’t easy. It’s kind of the inverse of expectations. Usually these rule sets are “look at all of the powerful tools you can use!” Instead it becomes a challenge of self control to not use the options available. Legendary classes, for example, become a power trap.
Awesome! I have to think (at this power level) being a couple points over some of the benchmarks wouldn’t be big deal, and that wasn’t too painful, was it?
Ouachitonian as a very good point, "Too much of the 3pp stuff isn’t balanced well against 1pp, which means the PCs will be at wildly varying power levels when one guy builds a 1pp-Dex-based martial and the other guy comes with a Path of War/Spheres of Might/Legendary monstrosity. Not only does that likely make the chosen party unbalanced, but it means that applicants who are less familiar with 3pp are at a disadvantage in submissions, and less likely to be picked."
@Giant Halfling: I'd like to politely ask for you to stop this. We are all adults here and this patronizing tone is not helpful or healthy.
We are all just having a conversation and sharing opinions. Different players, different opinions, different expectations, different preferences. All valid, all welcomed. If you disagree with one point of view, it is totally fine, but please do not paint these opinions as inherently bad.
The GM set the creation rules. Some on us have already spent hours building them and then we were informed that what we've created might be too much. This is fine.
Then the GM himself mentions that he is considering changing the rules and some of us are trying to help. That is it. No one is forcing others to do anything, specially not forcing the GM into doing anything.
If the GM decides to keep the current rules and enforce the benchmark, also ok.
