Is the thrall created from the corpse of a fallen enemy via the necromancer's inevitable return reaction the same size as said fallen enemy?
If I use my reaction after slaying an ogre, for example, is the resulting thrall in its space Large?
Do we even have the official playtest documents available yet?
I hear rumor that they are available somewhere (leaked?). But I don't remember where.
Do we even have the official playtest documents available yet?
I hear rumor that they are available somewhere (leaked?). But I don't remember where.
They're on Demiplane.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Should probably wait until the playtest forum opens up, but I think the thrall is not dependent on the source simply because it doesn't mention size at all, so you get the normal effects of making a thrall: one that's Medium or Small.
While I think it'd be interesting to create different size thralls, I'm unsure of the power ramifications, like would that make other abilities too strong because of extra space covered. It might lead to a "bag of rats" scenario where your team intentionally summons & kills a (weak) Huge creature so you can make a Huge thrall for some absurd consequence.
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
Is the thrall created from the corpse of a fallen enemy via the necromancer's inevitable return reaction the same size as said fallen enemy?
If I use my reaction after slaying an ogre, for example, is the resulting thrall in its space Large?
Key Terms
Thrall: Thralls are undead creatures, but they are not minions with the summoned trait. They can’t take actions, but they can be used for various abilities. Unless noted otherwise, a thrall is Small or Medium (chosen by you when you create it) and must be created in an unoccupied space.
Inevitable Return
"You raise a thrall in the triggering corpse’s space."
Per the Key Word, as it doesn't mention a size, it's "Small or Medium".
Is the thrall created from the corpse of a fallen enemy via the necromancer's inevitable return reaction the same size as said fallen enemy?
If I use my reaction after slaying an ogre, for example, is the resulting thrall in its space Large?
Key Terms
Thrall: Thralls are undead creatures, but they are not minions with the summoned trait. They can’t take actions, but they can be used for various abilities. Unless noted otherwise, a thrall is Small or Medium (chosen by you when you create it) and must be created in an unoccupied space.
Inevitable Return
"You raise a thrall in the triggering corpse’s space."Per the Key Word, as it doesn't mention a size, it's "Small or Medium".
If the creature was larger than Small or Medium though, then the thrall would have to be bigger as well in order to be in the triggering corpse's entire space.
Otherwise you end up with weird grey areas like where exactly your itty bitty thrall pops up within said space, and what that would even look like.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
It doesn't mention ENTIRE space.
Yes, it could lead to a giant's arm becoming your thrall. Or head, which would be kinda crazy cool. Or it could be a slushy ooze of flesh & blood, or bone shards collecting together in whatever semblance you want. And yeah, that could be in the middle of a corpse big enough to alter terrain.
| 4 people marked this as a favorite. |
Yeah, thralls aren't literal creatures. They're conglomerations of meat, bone, soul and various necromantic energies.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Is the thrall created from the corpse of a fallen enemy via the necromancer's inevitable return reaction the same size as said fallen enemy?
If I use my reaction after slaying an ogre, for example, is the resulting thrall in its space Large?
Key Terms
Thrall: Thralls are undead creatures, but they are not minions with the summoned trait. They can’t take actions, but they can be used for various abilities. Unless noted otherwise, a thrall is Small or Medium (chosen by you when you create it) and must be created in an unoccupied space.
Inevitable Return
"You raise a thrall in the triggering corpse’s space."Per the Key Word, as it doesn't mention a size, it's "Small or Medium".
If the creature was larger than Small or Medium though, then the thrall would have to be bigger as well in order to be in the triggering corpse's entire space.
Otherwise you end up with weird grey areas like where exactly your itty bitty thrall pops up within said space, and what that would even look like.
It doesn't matter is you use it on a pixie [tiny size] or an ancient green dragon [Gargantuan], if it's not specified by an ability, it creates a small or medium thrall.
As to it being in every space, all the ability says is "You raise a thrall in the triggering corpse’s space" and not spaces plural. I see no disconnect here. And i'll agree with the others, that your thrall doesn't need to have any direct connection to the corpse: nothing prevents you from raising a humanoid shaped thrall from a Gelatinous Cube as Inevitable Return just requires an enemy die, not that one with bones or even flesh for that matter. Even a ghost, with no material form, qualifies for the trigger of the ability.
I like to envision the inverse to be also true: a Tiny creature suddenly rising as a Medium thrall! Wonder what that looks like. Ooh, or a thrall rising from a slain swarm!
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
You could thrall-ify skeletons from oozes & tree creatures, zombies from ant swarms & exploding frost worms, and little spirit guys from soulless creatures. It's weird, but intentional. Mechanically, I'm fine with it.
Whether or not this breaks verisimilitude would be a matter for playtest feedback. I could kinda shrug it off, though I'd prefer some sort of meta-explanation that cleans up the detritus. Perhaps the ability is really tapping into the death "energy" more than the available body for instance. Or death excites the Necromancer so much they pop out a thrall. Cuz yeah, it can create some wonky imagery.
ETA: Even an in-world "nobody knows how this mysterious connection/transformation/whatnot occurs" would work for me.
ETA2: "Through the magic of handwavium."
I suppose tiny pixie corpses could be augmented by the grave dirt around them.
Yeah, thralls aren't literal creatures. They're conglomerations of meat, bone, soul and various necromantic energies.
Thralls are specifically and literally undead creatures. See the Thrall trait in the sidebar.