The chainmail „only“ weights 125 pfd.
25 pfd * 5 (because it’s huge) = 125.RAW it just talks about the initial metal object, which would be the chainmail which is lighter than 500pfd.
So I think that the weight of the creature doesn’t matter.
Otherwise it would/should say so. And the spell would be mostly useless, nearly everything large has more than 500pfd, even PC.
I disagree, I believe the spell is written with medium humanoids in mind, and all of them, including their armor would fall under the 500# limit. Anything over that limit, which would include the Giant, would have a 500 pound force pushing against them, but would have no real effect, unless on a super slick surface or such.
Yeah, I agree with TxSam88. Average human weighs under 200 lbs, so could be carried at medium enc by a Str 17ish (18 if over 173) at medium encumbrance. So, would fall into the 500 pretty easily.
I mean, if you're ignoring the weight of the wearer, then doors would go flying out of their frames when held on by bolts, etc.
That being said... RAW, you CAN move the Cloud Giant, but I'm sure that's not RAI... In my games, I would not allow it.
While buff spells often assume a medium size character, attack spells should assume you will use them against all of the monsters. If creature size were meant to be a limitation, that really should have been included in the spell.
While buff spells often assume a medium size character, attack spells should assume you will use them against all of the monsters. If creature size were meant to be a limitation, that really should have been included in the spell.
that's why we have a GM - because not all situations can be covered by a written ruleset. A GM needs to stay with RAW as much as possible, except when it 100% does not make sense. (I also wouldn't consider this an attack spell)
This spell creates waves of invisible energy that roll forth from you. All metal or stone objects in the path of the spell are pushed away from you to the limit of the range. Fixed metal or stone objects larger than 3 inches in diameter and loose objects weighing more than 500 pounds are not affected. Anything else, including animated objects, small boulders, and creatures in metal armor, moves back. Fixed objects 3 inches in diameter or smaller bend or break, and the pieces move with the wave of energy. Objects affected by the spell are repelled at the rate of 40 feet per round.
The 500 pound limit is for lose objects. A creature in metal armor is not a lose object. RAW the spell moves back a creature in metal armor regardless of the weight. The GM is of course free to rule otherwise but at that point it is a house rule.
This spell creates waves of invisible energy that roll forth from you. All metal or stone objects in the path of the spell are pushed away from you to the limit of the range. Fixed metal or stone objects larger than 3 inches in diameter and loose objects weighing more than 500 pounds are not affected. Anything else, including animated objects, small boulders, and creatures in metal armor, moves back. Fixed objects 3 inches in diameter or smaller bend or break, and the pieces move with the wave of energy. Objects affected by the spell are repelled at the rate of 40 feet per round.
The 500 pound limit is for lose objects. A creature in metal armor is not a lose object. RAW the spell moves back a creature in metal armor regardless of the weight. The GM is of course free to rule otherwise but at that point it is a house rule.
It doesn't say "loose Metal or stone objects..." it say "loose objects..." (compare to the first item on the list "Fixed metal or stone objects...")
The way I see it you first consider what might be effected by these spells -as in made out of metal for the metal spell, wood for wood etc. , then calculate the whole item's weight and see if it's effected or not.
If it happen to be attached to a 5 ton creature then the item's full weight is more then enough to keep it in place. It's not just the metal parts rather it's it full weight, non metal\stone parts (such as creatures) included.
"Loose objects" is never used to describe entities, only inanimate items not in the possession of others. That being said, the "loose objects" does seem to be intentionally added, since the sentence without the word "loose" would have no change in RAW's definition. Ie:
Fixed metal or stone objects larger than 3 inches in diameter and loose objects weighing more than 500 pounds are not affected.
vs
Fixed metal or stone objects larger than 3 inches in diameter and objects weighing more than 500 pounds are not affected.
It suggests that RAI might match RAW. In the later sentence, someone weighing more than 500 would not be moved, but by adding the 'loose' in there, it shifts that to include occupiers since they are no longer "loose" objects.
I agree with Mysterious Stranger, RAW is that the Cloud Giant is moved, and possibly even RAI... it won't work in my games, but we're not discussing house rules here, we're talking the actual rules. :/
"Loose objects" is never used to describe entities, only inanimate items not in the possession of others. ...
Yet the spell goes on to include 3 things in this 'loose items' list, 2\3 of those oppose your statement. The animated objects (which are creatures) and a creature wearing an armor, both of which are not inanimate objects (the first) nor an object not in possession of others (the armor).
So while you claim that this was never before used to describe such things, this spell specifically take trouble to add just that! (AND STILL make sure to exclude the words metal\stone, when referring to the loose items)
For which I say again. the loose item include everything it have when counting it's weight, even non meta\stone parts.
"Loose objects" is never used to describe entities, only inanimate items not in the possession of others. ...Yet the spell goes on to include 3 things in this 'loose items' list, 2\3 of those oppose your statement. The animated objects (which are creatures) and a creature wearing an armor, both of which are not inanimate objects (the first) nor an object not in possession of others (the armor).
At this point, it's obvious to all that we are having to resort to interpretation of the rules. I share your interpretation. However, the discussion is not whether or not we all agree, it's a question of the rule itself.
loose objects weighing more than 500 pounds are not affected. Anything else, including animated objects, small boulders, and creatures in metal armor, moves back.
The rules say that if it is not a loose object weighing more than 500 points (and the 'object' was already defined as "All metal or stone objects"), so the 'object' being under 500 points, are part of the "Anything else".
There's not a way to spin this to make the creature+object as being the RAW object.
We should point out that this is a level 8 spell. Moving large+ creatures, if they fit a circumstance, is certainly not outside of the scope of a level 8 spell. Even with no save. Reverse gravity is level 7-8 and this isn’t stronger than that.
After the sentence on lose objects, it states "Anything else, including animated objects, small boulders and creatures in metal armor." A giant in chain mail is a creature in metal armor.
Again, the GM is free to change that.