Caster level needed for a Bloody Skeletal Champion?

[Jack Simth]

Suppose I want to turn someone I to an IKEA lich, by combining the Bloody Skeleton and Skeletal Champion templates. What caster level do I need to pull it off for, say, a currently-dead level 10 fighter?

[zza ni]

you can't (as a character) raise a skeletal champion.
It's a unique template the gm use, but there is no spell (like animate dead or create undead) that work to make it. (in game terms they just turn out when some unknown circumstance happen. aka gm fiat).

the ability to make undead with class levels was deemed to powerful to leave in players hands. which is also why the juju oracle mystery was nurfed. he used to be able to make juju zombies (zombies with class levels) but they took it away from him.(can still find the old class ability here. but it's not legal anymore)

As a GM, one doesn't need to bother on what level the maker is as it just happen when he decide it should.

[Jack Simth]

d20pfsrd.com lists it as available under Create Undead, and Animate Dead clearly has it noted as a possible combination. However, d20pfsrd.com isn't exactly clear on which source added it (likely an adventure path at some point). I'm just trying to figure out the correct CL required.

[Unbegreiflich]

IKEA creatures require large yellow or blue bags and all of their objects have half the usual HPs...

[Azothath]

sadly you only get to do what the spell says, generic undead. It is up to your GM to allow more stuff. CR will be his main metric.
Create Greater Undead:N8

[Java Man]

Well, the official PRD (archives of nethys) seems to have no mention of how to create skeletal champions, so GM fiat?

[zza ni]

Java Man wrote:

Well, the official PRD (archives of nethys) seems to have no mention of how to create skeletal champions, so GM fiat?

yes, when i answer questions in the rules section i try to avoid using the d20pfsrd, since (as i showed above with the juju) it also include things that are not (or no longer) following the rules.

As Java Man wrote, in this case the, archive remain silent about how one can create Skeletal champion on his own.

[Dasrak]

Jack Simth wrote:

d20pfsrd.com lists it as available under Create Undead, and Animate Dead clearly has it noted as a possible combination. However, d20pfsrd.com isn't exactly clear on which source added it (likely an adventure path at some point). I'm just trying to figure out the correct CL required.

Yeah, it is unfortunate that D20PFSRD doesn't correctly source this stuff. I'm actually very curious as to what the sources are for some of those things. There are some I'm aware of, like the Huecava's description in Bestiary 3 says you can create it with Create Undead. But I don't know where the Skeleton Champion and Juju Zombie options come from. Which is a shame, because I think they are really positive additions from a world-building perspective by explicitly specifying how a necromancer might create these kinds of creatures.

As to the question at hand, though, there is no way to create a Bloody Skeleton Champion. It's GM fiat as to whether such a combination is even possible.

[zza ni]

juju zombies, as i mentioned where something a juju mystery oracle could create (but not entirety control). but it was nurfed since.
in the link of the OLD juju mystery i posted above (and here again) it's under the bonus spell he gain for 10 level:

"Bonus Spells: speak with animals (2nd), hideous laughter (4th), fear (6th), charm monster (8th), create undead (as a 5th-level spell; juju zombies only; see right) (10th), magic jar (12th), creeping doom (14th), trap the soul (16th), shapechange (18th).

ever since it got nurfed, only GM fiat can bring it about now.

[dotseth]

Undead Revisited pg. 3 is listed as the source over on giant in the playground for the same information on the pfsrd. To get a skeletal champion you need Create undead spell with Caster level 11th minimum and an enervation or energy drain spell being used up in the process. There is also the requirement of having more caster levels than the hd of the thing you create.

It doesn't seem to say anywhere I have seen that you can add the variant templates from the animate dead spell to the create undead or create greater undead spells, but when you put Bloody template on things they count as double hd. So if you wanted to raise a 10th level fighter as a bloody skeletal champion you would need caster level 20 and a tolerant dm outside of normal society play.

Since it would need to be a home game anyway at that point you should look into corpsecrafting and spell stitching them while you are at it.

[zza ni]

Dasrak wrote:

Jack Simth wrote:

d20pfsrd.com lists it as available under Create Undead, and Animate Dead clearly has it noted as a possible combination. However, d20pfsrd.com isn't exactly clear on which source added it (likely an adventure path at some point). I'm just trying to figure out the correct CL required.

Yeah, it is unfortunate that D20PFSRD doesn't correctly source this stuff. I'm actually very curious as to what the sources are for some of those things. There are some I'm aware of, like the Huecava's description in Bestiary 3 says you can create it with Create Undead. But I don't know where the Skeleton Champion and Juju Zombie options come from. Which is a shame, because I think they are really positive additions from a world-building perspective by explicitly specifying how a necromancer might create these kinds of creatures.

As to the question at hand, though, there is no way to create a Bloody Skeleton Champion. It's GM fiat as to whether such a combination is even possible.

found out about this item today.

while the juju oracle was nerfed to no longer be able to create juju zombies with his bonus spell, this item allow anyone who wield it and die to rise as one. 10k~ gp to gain the juju zombie template might be a bargain for evil characters. you don't rejuvenate like a vampire or lich but as long as you don't get destroyed at 0 hp you gain a ton of benefits and a minor immortality. (not aging\ need to eat\breath etc)