Aid got buffed in the remaster, lowering the default DC from 20 to 15. But why is the default DC static to begin with, instead of being commensurate to the difficulty of the task? Any training in a skill means it will be trivial to Aid with that skill at later levels. Is that the point?
I wondered about that too and considering that high level characters can crit without effort we opted on all tables I play to make it standard level difficulty based on the target
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Game mechanics reason that I can come up with: The benefits that it gives is also static.
It changes slightly with your proficiency as long as you Crit the check. But the value is fixed and unchanging once the character level and proficiency is known.
Narratively: Helping or being an assistant doesn't become harder with the difficulty of the task. The person being primary on the task is still shouldering the majority of the work and only delegating a simpler part of it to assistants.
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Metanarratively, it provides a degree of power scaling (it's easier to provide support the stronger the party is) and increases the ability of others to participate in a task by aiding.
Aid with a scaled DC turns the character who's trained but not specialized at a higher level into much more of a potential liability.
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A character's actions become more valuable as they level up, so they need more net return for their efforts/tactical choices (or other investments outside of combat). One can see a similar arc in monster abilities where at the highest levels Grab becomes Improved Grab or the ability to grab multiple enemies because spending an action to Grab often isn't worth the condition applied. Or in Constrict => Improved Constrict where the severity keeps the action worthwhile w/o making the damage ludicrous.
I don't know, but I've almost never run it that way. It's hard to do at low level when players are learning the game. So they try it a coupe of times, fail, and then never attempt it again, despite it being basically impossible to fail at high level (and feats that give a bonus to the roll to do it become worse as the game goes on).
I generally use an Easy version of the DC of the task they are assisting with, the idea being that it's easier to help someone do a thing than it is to do the thing itself, but you still have to be good enough at it to actually be able to help.
I want people to be doing it, but "I critically succeed on any roll other than 1 despite this being an incredibly complicated task" just doesn't work for me.
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The reason for this is because aid is heavily restricted.
Restrictions to consider:
- requires GM approval of the skill and approach you want to use
- requires the person you are aiding to both take the triggering approach and be able to once their turn comes around
- requires you to still be able to take the action
- in combat you generally need to be within 5ft
- requires an action (that competes with single, double and triple actions, from spells, items and class feats/features)
- requires a reaction
- only impacts one roll, and that roll can also fail
So I HIGHLY recommend not hindering aid by giving it a higher DC. A meme in PF2e is every +1 matters... but a +1 for a single roll that takes an action and reaction as well as requiring you to be in a dangerous position mid combat...
DC20 was better balance across levels than DC15 is, but DC15 allows people to get at it from level 1 in combat.
Another reason is you aren't always going to be able to use a maxed out skill, using a tertiary skill without item bonuses or 18+ in the ability should be fair game in mid level and above play.
Now bards get some stuff that makes it super powerful, but that is bards and a different discussion. That is how bards modify and use aid, not how aid itself works.
Putting it another way, aid is one of the most narratively rewarding actions a player can take. And with a static DC it becomes "how much do I help" or "how can I help" rather than "I would rather just do something I know will work"
The static DC 15 is the general guideline for GMs, not the only number that can ever matter. In combat you shouldn’t deviate from it unless the suggested aid action is improbable or far fetched. An action and a reaction to give someone a modest bonus is a pretty high price already.
But out of combat it is fine to be more discerning. How many people does it take to screw in a light bulb? ( or more practically, pick a lock)? Applying a hard modifier is pretty reasonable. Be careful about turning every check into a level based DC though. That is the path to the endless treadmill. Let trained skills be good enough to get a +2 at higher level. An 18th level wizard trained in athletics is still better at climbing than 90 percent of Golarion at mountain climbing.
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Aid got buffed in the remaster, lowering the default DC from 20 to 15. But why is the default DC static to begin with, instead of being commensurate to the difficulty of the task? Any training in a skill means it will be trivial to Aid with that skill at later levels. Is that the point?
Yes.
Why? To encourage cooperation.Though my players only tend to use it out of combat because of the action cost. I think I'm going to have start having monsters use it against them a lot more than I do.
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Aid got buffed in the remaster, lowering the default DC from 20 to 15.
The way I like to look at it, this was about teaching new players.
Before, at DC 20, new players would try aiding someone, find out that it was harder than the actual check they were trying to aid, maybe critically fail and give a penalty. The lesson being "don't aid, it's not worth it". Of course at a later level since the DC doesn't change, aiding would actually be fine, but then you have to unlearn that lesson and give it another try.
Moving the DC to 15 means it's usually equal to or lower than DCs you're rolling against at level 1, so the learning works better.
But why is the default DC static to begin with, instead of being commensurate to the difficulty of the task? Any training in a skill means it will be trivial to Aid with that skill at later levels. Is that the point?
I think it is. Aiding is "expensive".
If it's combat, you're spending actions, and by the time you're really good at aiding, you probably also have other things you're good at, that would have a lot of impact.
In out of combat skill challenges, you have to weigh how good aiding is, compared to just both characters attempting the check and hoping one of them succeeds. Statistically, that's often better. (Unless the skill challenge allows only one primary character to try.)
There's also the investment of the character to consider, and what they're getting when they're Aiding. Imagine that you have a party with two people who invested into Medicine, because sometimes one of them goes down. Having two medics seemed safer. But now they're say, level 10 and both of them are Master at Medicine. That's a real investment, you don't get that many skill upgrades after all. So it's time to Treat Wounds, but of course patients can receive treatment from only one doctor at a time. So one of the characters is going to Aid, and the other is going to do the main check.
Now consider how the aid-giver feels about their investment in Medicine. If the DC to Aid goes up along with the main check, they're likely to just get a success, not a critical success. That means that they give a +1 to the main check. That feels kinda lame for being a Master.
Compare that to the DC 15. At level 10 you're almost certainly going to critically succeed (L10+M6+wis+item), and then you give a +3 to the check. That actually feels like you're getting some value out of your investment in being a Master.
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TL;DR - when you're aiding at higher level, the things you're giving up to do that are big. So the value of aid should also be big. And you do that by critting a lot, because you still roll against DC 15.