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- There's no visual trait. Nobody can find your flag to steal it after you cast Invisible Item on it! This doesn't work with the enemy debuff of Glorious Banner, but that's a problem for level 20. This even works with Trick Magic Item and a wand.
- Why not use an Immovable Rod for that flag? At worst, it turns removing it into a two-action activity- possibly three action, as they first waste an action to discover that it won't move.
- The problem with playing Capture the Flag is that when you plant it, the enemy just has to spend an action to get. But when the enemy gets it, you have to chase them down and kill them. Or disarm them, but that's even harder. (Maybe this could be good against a boss with a two-handed weapon? You'll want an adamantine banner so they can't just attack it.) What if we could just get it back from them? This one requires an actual-factual Wizard in your party, but Call Wizardly Tools is at-will retrieval of your banner so long as it's also the wizard's bonded item. (There's also a much, much worse Thaumaturge version that we won't bother with.) Surely there are more options that do this sort of thing... Aha! A basic (but greater) Retrieval Prism is exactly what we're looking for. At three gold a piece and a mere third-level item, this actually seems like the perfect item. (Most of these options have a one-bulk limit.)
- If you get to prepare the battlefield beforehand, plant your banner before the fight, and plant nine duplicates! It's like Mirror Image, but waaay more hassle.
- Speaking of which, maybe this isn't a combat feat after all! Temporary hitpoints are useful against traps and other hazards. Why not just use this when there aren't any enemies?
- You know what the problem with Snarecrafter is? You don't really have a way to get enemies to go where you want. Suuure, Commander says it's all about things like "directing your allies", but I'm seeing legendary class DC keying off intelligence and some great one-action bait.
- The enemy wants to take your flag. That's rude, and also stealing! Hang on, I remember a thread debating what exactly counts as "taking the object into your possession", and I'm pretty sure that capture the flag counts... Bandit's Doom goes from situational to amazing with this. And it's on every list except Primal, although prepared casters have a much easier time justifying this one. It's also got a neat bit of symmetry- if the GM rules a scenario doesn't trigger the curse, it also won't trigger frightened on the party for the flag being stolen.
- ... Wait. You said you want to put something somewhere, and enemies shouldn't be able to take it? And you might have a chance to do that before the battle? Sacré bleu, it's Sovereign Glue! This one really counts on it being easy to designate a new flag (probably as part of the ten minute drills), because once this thing is attached, it's not coming off without its own set of shenanigans. It's a little too pricey to do this without an Alchemist or Alchemist multiclass, and you are committing to the battle definitely taking place where you plan on. The minute activation is far too long to pull this trick in combat. 10/10 when you gotta defend a pass or hold a fortress.
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All in all, I think that Retrieval Prism is the best option available by a long shot. For three gold, it's a free action to teleport your flag back from anywhere on the plane one time, which makes planting a sufficiently sturdy flag practically risk-free. (Okay, the frightened 1 thing is a pain and feels really silly when everyone knows its not really stolen.) You can even have your more charismatic allies act like it's a big deal. It's also not relying on anything that'll have the GM throw a book at you, like using an invisible flag.
Bandit's Doom is a genuinely fun addition to the mix that can make your flag being stolen part of the plan.
Even after all the discussion, though, can we manage "sufficiently durable"? The best value/price option I can find is 20 gp for a one bulk low-grade cold iron object for 9 hardness and 36 hp. Assuming "destroyed" is all that matters, that's one hit for 45, two hits for 27, or wasting a full turn. That's actually good for a really long portion of your career since objects don't get crit, and bone or stone will do for a start. Adamantine jumps up to 350 gp, but once we get to that range, there are more tricks we can pull. It's important we somehow make it as an object, rather than as a thin object, which knocks huge chunks off the stats with no discount at all.
- There's no visual trait. Nobody can find your flag to steal it after you cast Invisible Item on it! This doesn't work with the enemy debuff of Glorious Banner, but that's a problem for level 20. This even works with Trick Magic Item and a wand.
Unless your allies is able to See the Unseen the banner needs to be visible to work:
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As long as your banner is visible (such as by being affixed to your weapon or worn attached to a pole alongside your backpack), you and all allies in a 30- foot emanation gain a +1 status bonus to Will saves and DCs against fear effects. You pause or resume this effect as part of any action you would typically use to stow or retrieve your banner, such as Interacting to stow it. If your banner is destroyed or stolen, allies within 30 feet become frightened 1. This effect has the aura, commander, emotion, mental, and visual traits.
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- There's no visual trait. Nobody can find your flag to steal it after you cast Invisible Item on it! This doesn't work with the enemy debuff of Glorious Banner, but that's a problem for level 20. This even works with Trick Magic Item and a wand.Unless your allies is able to See the Unseen the banner needs to be visible to work:
...
As long as your banner is visible (such as by being affixed to your weapon or worn attached to a pole alongside your backpack), you and all allies in a 30- foot emanation gain a +1 status bonus to Will saves and DCs against fear effects. You pause or resume this effect as part of any action you would typically use to stow or retrieve your banner, such as Interacting to stow it. If your banner is destroyed or stolen, allies within 30 feet become frightened 1. This effect has the aura, commander, emotion, mental, and visual traits.
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Yeah, that's definitely the intent behind it. But Plant Banner's gives temp HP to all allies with a 30 ft burst. It's very clearly separate from the emanation effect, because that gets changed to a 40 ft burst.
I missed that it'd shut off most of your commands, though, since even though you can issue them verbally, your allies aren't affected by commander's banner.
That was mostly brought up so that Paizo would have a chance to clean up the language a bit and avoid weird situations like this.
I honestly don't see many enemies going for the banner. It looks more like a visual manifestation of your abilities than an obvious important item to grab. I know as a GM I wouldn't do it unless I'm playing some pesky creatures who love to take things from others (like Gremlins) or if an enemy wants to get rid of Bon Mot.
I honestly don't see many enemies going for the banner. It looks more like a visual manifestation of your abilities than an obvious important item to grab. I know as a GM I wouldn't do it unless I'm playing some pesky creatures who love to take things from others (like Gremlins) or if an enemy wants to get rid of Bon Mot.
Yeah, I think it's plenty reasonable for a GM to be chill about the banner. I've seen some folks worrying about it, and the consequences when an enemy does go after it are pretty hefty. As a GM, I'd probably say anything with warfare Lore knows for free, and an active Society check realizes otherwise, costing an action. Most of the suggestions are fun overkill, but something like the Retrieval Prism only needs to get used when there is a problem.
I honestly don't see many enemies going for the banner. It looks more like a visual manifestation of your abilities than an obvious important item to grab. I know as a GM I wouldn't do it unless I'm playing some pesky creatures who love to take things from others (like Gremlins) or if an enemy wants to get rid of Bon Mot.
In roleplay terms I agree but I can expect many GMs that knows how the flags works trying to steal it like as if the creatures already knows if they steal the flag they will cap the Commander and penalize all players.
Including this remembers me! Capture the commanders flag penalizes everyone!!!
Don't you think this is too much? This could make a too high pressure in players that play as commanders but that for some reason had their flag stolen.
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There's no visual trait.
As long as your banner is visible (such as by being affixed to your weapon or worn attached to a pole alongside your backpack), you and all allies in a 30- foot emanation gain a +1 status bonus to Will saves and DCs against fear effects. You pause or resume this effect as part of any action you would typically use to stow or retrieve your banner, such as Interacting to stow it. If your banner is destroyed or stolen, allies within 30 feet become frightened 1. This effect has the aura, commander, emotion, mental, and visual traits.
There's no visual trait.As long as your banner is visible (such as by being affixed to your weapon or worn attached to a pole alongside your backpack), you and all allies in a 30- foot emanation gain a +1 status bonus to Will saves and DCs against fear effects. You pause or resume this effect as part of any action you would typically use to stow or retrieve your banner, such as Interacting to stow it. If your banner is destroyed or stolen, allies within 30 feet become frightened 1. This effect has the aura, commander, emotion, mental, and visual traits.
That applies to +1 will / fear effect. Invisible banner won't do either.
The Banner tag does not specifically say it has the visual trait, however it does say.
"Banner: The banner trait indicates an ability that involves you waving or otherwise actively displaying your banner."
However, Plant Banner doesn't have the Banner trait. So none of that applies.
There's no visual trait.As long as your banner is visible (such as by being affixed to your weapon or worn attached to a pole alongside your backpack), you and all allies in a 30- foot emanation gain a +1 status bonus to Will saves and DCs against fear effects. You pause or resume this effect as part of any action you would typically use to stow or retrieve your banner, such as Interacting to stow it. If your banner is destroyed or stolen, allies within 30 feet become frightened 1. This effect has the aura, commander, emotion, mental, and visual traits.That applies to +1 will / fear effect.
The Banner tag does not specifically say it has the visual trait, however it does say
"Banner: The banner trait indicates an ability that involves you waving or otherwise your banner."
Ah, good! Yeah, making it invisible is very much the opposite of openly displaying it.
I missed that it'd shut off most of your commands, though, since even though you can issue them verbally, your allies aren't affected by commander's banner.
Most commands don't have the Banner trait and can be done without a banner.
Plant Banner needs the Banner trait.
I missed that it'd shut off most of your commands, though, since even though you can issue them verbally, your allies aren't affected by commander's banner.Most commands don't have the Banner trait and can be done without a banner.
But many do say "affected by your banner" in their text.
But many do say "affected by your banner" in their text.I missed that it'd shut off most of your commands, though, since even though you can issue them verbally, your allies aren't affected by commander's banner.Most commands don't have the Banner trait and can be done without a banner.
ok, maybe 1/2 of the Tactics need a banner.
But not all.And not most of the feats.
Whoops, Retrieval Prism is 12 gp, not 3. That's a little more reasonable, and still an excellent deal.