Why doesn't Unarmored Defense and Light Armor progress?

[Ectar]

I fully understand that these are not well fitting for the class fantasy and mechanics.

HOWEVER as someone whose character had their armor destroyed, I can tell you I was very glad that at least my proficiency was the same.
If the same thing happened to a level 11 Guardian in +2 full plate, their AC plummets by 12:
6 from plate
2 from +2
4 from drop in proficiency.

It's just an unnecessary feelsbadman, imo

[YuriP]

Yes it's strange because all classes get the proficiency progress to all trained armors or lower. But probably there's a thematic reason here. To represent that guardian armor training focus doesn't improve it using light and no armor.

But honestly I agree, just focus the progression into medium and heavy armors will only make mistakes.

[Teridax]

I imagine the intent was to emphasize that the Guardian's defenses are focused primarily around heavier armor, so I'm fine with them not being good with light armor, but I agree that not progressing unarmored defense is a bad move. Given that one of the Guardian's feats encourages you to break your armor, there are going to be situations where your armor will get destroyed, and at that point, with a -12 to your AC you might as well just die then.

In this respect, I think there are two possible approaches: one could be to just give the Guardian legendary AC in all defense types, and the other could be to make it legitimately very difficult for the Guardian's armor to get destroyed, as some of their flavor text suggests. An ability like Shield Salvation, but for armor, could help, or simply straight-up preventing medium and heavy armor from dropping below 1 HP while on you would achieve that. You'd have this funny "never nude" situation where no Guardian would ever want to take their armor off, but that could very well just be part of the class's flavor.

[Ectar]

For me, having most of their feats and such require medium or heavy does most of the work to get me to want to use those armors.
Though I'd be lying if I said I didn't start looking into this to try and make a character subverting expectations.

But the original premise remains valid.

[The-Magic-Sword]

Probably to try and provide guardrails, Guardian really depends on it's defenses so making sure people aren't taking the AC hit from light and unarmored and accidentally undermining the class entirely.

[Finoan]

One, things that can damage worn armor are atypical. And probably becoming less common rather than more. So having you armor damaged is probably not something that the class is balanced around.

Two, it probably would be better if the class got standard martial levels of proficiency with Unarmored defense. That would clear up any misunderstandings about 'well, maybe it is just a typo and was forgotten'. It would also prevent 'well, I guess I'll just die now' events when a Guardian character gets caught in battle without their armor for some reason or other.

[Jerdane]

Yeah, while Guardian does have one feat (Armor Break) that lets them break their armor for damage, I don't think they can destroy their armor with it unless I'm misunderstanding something, so they still get their proficiency bonus with medium/heavy armor.

As for using this to prevent new players from trying to use no/light armor, I don't think that's really necessary. A large proportion of Guardian feats require you to be wearing medium to heavy armor, so the player should get the message about using such armor anyway. Also, the fighter doesn't have reduced proficiency in simple weapons despite their main shtick being martial and advanced weapons.

[Perpdepog]

I'm in favor of them gaining training in light armor and unarmored defense. Sure, that's not what the class is exactly going for, and there is some kind of parity when you consider that we have classes that favor light armor exclusively, but none that favor heavier armor in the same way because of how proficiency works, but like people said upthread, your feats will take care of that. If you have a plan that can somehow duck under a lot of the armor flavor, and know alternate feats to take, like being a super nimble shield guardian, then I think that should be a thing the class lets you do.
I would expect anyone going in to the class with that idea in mind would know from glancing at all the feats that this choice is suboptimal, so it's pretty safe to assume they'd be picking it for other reasons, like seeing how far they can bend the system for fun, or because it fulfills a specific fantasy for them.

[Ectar]

Perpdepog wrote:

I'm in favor of them gaining training in light armor and unarmored defense. Sure, that's not what the class is exactly going for, and there is some kind of parity when you consider that we have classes that favor light armor exclusively, but none that favor heavier armor in the same way because of how proficiency works, but like people said upthread, your feats will take care of that. If you have a plan that can somehow duck under a lot of the armor flavor, and know alternate feats to take, like being a super nimble shield guardian, then I think that should be a thing the class lets you do.

I would expect anyone going in to the class with that idea in mind would know from glancing at all the feats that this choice is suboptimal, so it's pretty safe to assume they'd be picking it for other reasons, like seeing how far they can bend the system for fun, or because it fulfills a specific fantasy for them.

Full disclosure: I noticed that the flavor text on Intercept Strike mentions your armor taking the blow, but none of the ability's actual requirements mention armor. So I got the image of this scrawny naked man jumping in front of a massive two-handed axe, and it just bouncing off of his flesh, because that's how the ability works as written, and it's hilarious.

Then I tried planning out a build that uses all feats that don't require medium or heavy armor.

That's when I noticed the lack of proficiency gain in unarmored and light armor.

[Tunu40]

A consolation I think to get around stuff:

Add this “Armorer’s Improvisation”.

“The Guardian can reinforce less ideal armor to suit their needs (and tastes) with various pieces and materials. Such as tying metal plates, extra folded heavy cloth, or fur linings - though the armor becomes heavier to become sturdier.

During a Guardian’s daily preparation, you can select an Unarmored/Light armor equipment and increase its AC by 2, reduce the DEX cap by 2, increase STR requirement by 2 (etc., etc..). The altered armor is considered Medium armor.

Additionally, the Guardian’s ability to make the most out of any armor, grants them even armor specialization when using Cloth. While wearing Cloth, the Guardian’s fluid flow grants +1 item bonus to Reflex and +1 per armor fundamental rune.”

Essentially, a Guardian can “Armored Skirt” Unarmored/Light armor. Still keeps the Guardian using Medium/Heavy armor proficiency, but allows a uniquely Guardian customization to expand their options in a way no other class can.

[RJGrady]

I don't see why they don't get improved defenses with unarmored and light armor. Logically, I just don't see them lacking that ability. Presumably they just WON'T use those options, mostly, because several of their abilities key off medium and heavy armors.

Then again, what if want to play a big, burly bare-chested guy who provokes the enemy and uses a big two-handed hammer? Why is that not an option?

[Megistone]

I agree that not giving them scaling proficiency is weird. The fact that they improved specialization is already a good reason to use the heavier options, but they shouldn't be so much worse when they aren't wearing their preferred suit of armor - a gap that curiously increases with levels.