Armor Check Penalty Doubled?


General Discussion (Prerelease)


On page 109 of the PFRPG Beta Rulebook (122 of PHB), it indicates under Armor Check Penalty / Nonproficient with Armor Worn, that you suffer the Armor Check Penalty to STR & DEX ability and skill checks. Does this penalty stack with the normal penalty one incurs to these abilities for wearing the armor (regardless of proficiency)?


At this point,
I think it's safe to say the time for questions about the Beta rules is over :-)


Quandary wrote:

At this point,

I think it's safe to say the time for questions about the Beta rules is over :-)

This was not a question about the beta rules. This was a question about a core rule which is not changing.

Fortunately I received a response to this question on the Wizard board which has clarified it -- which is sort of ironic since it is usually the snarky, unhelpful responses that one receives there is why I usually bring my inquiries here.


See, that's just crazy,
the folks on Wizards site already have the final rulebook, but *I DON'T*!?!?

;-)


Quandary wrote:

At this point,

I think it's safe to say the time for questions about the Beta rules is over :-)

...because the final version is released this Wednesday.

However, it may still be a valid question.

I'm tempted to say the answer is yes. It doesn't seem like a very severe penalty otherwise. Simply visualizing someone who is not used to wearing armor try to perform these skills, it seems clear to me that a harsher penalty is in order.

EDIT: Ninja'd twice. Dang.

In Quandary's defense, he/she is usually more polite.

Also, what was the official answer from Wizards?


toyrobots wrote:
Also, what was the official answer from Wizards?

The short answer is that they are both armor check penalties, so they don't stack.

http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1231178

I also realize now that in 3.5 all the Str & Dex skills were affected by the ACP, except the ride skill. In Pathfinder, they changed the ACP to affect all Str & Dex skills (including ride). Because of this the wording is sort of repetitive in the Pathfinder Beta book. This slightly confused me and made me wonder why they would mention it twice -- that's when I thought maybe it was because they stacked.

Although they might be cleaning up the wording of this (I doubt it), its a pretty logical deduction the mechanic will not be changing. So, I can program my Excel character creator accordingly now :) Hopefully my logical deduction is correct and I won't have to change a rule mechanic which never gathered any discussion about the need to change or alter.

Side Note: People come to these boards for help and assistance. I have highly respected the pathfinder community for their eagerness to help and have done my best to contribute where I can too. It saddens me when I see a forum member start to turn towards the dark side :)

Sovereign Court

Oh boohoo! stop the saddening and starts the gladdening already.

[cue to festive music]

La la la la la la l a alala lala la la la!

He knows if you've been bad or good so be good for goodness sake!

P-R-PG's coming, to tooooooooooooown!


toyrobots wrote:
In Quandary's defense, he/she is usually more polite.

Yeah, sorry if I was snarky... I *am* going nuts not having the final rules yet :-)

Other posters have actually posted very recent questions about Beta rules, and your post wasn't clear to me since you only quoted the Beta and didn't mention the final rules in particular.

It sounds like you got "the 3.5 answer" from the WotC boards,
so it will be interesting how the Final PRPG rules do approach that.
I do unfortunately get the impression that not enough rules in the Final have been re-written for absolute clarity and simplicity. Maybe it would ruin the D&D vibe :-)

If it WAS intended to 'stack' (this is sortof outside the modifier categories), the non-proficiency should probably say something like "if non-proficient, INCREASE your ACP by X".

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