I am making a 20th lvl chara and wanted to make an ice spell specialist. So i am playing a winter witch 10/ witch X with the winter and season: winter archetype(its been approved since i chose winter as my patron). My issue is while the DCs are pretty good, the damage per spell is only average because no witch feature increases damage. So i was wondering if i should multi class into sorcerer just for the cross blooded orc and dragon bloodline arcana.
Would a full witch be better than the +2 to all cold dmg dice? I already plan to take extra hex at 19th level to max out on 2 grand hexes so in theory it should be ok.
Is there any drawbacks to multiclassing here?
if you are going to invest 1 level in it then def also take the 'blood havok' blood mutation.
Trading the 1st level bloodline for +1 more damage per dice in any spell you have spell focus in or gained via your bloodline is only a plus.
just a suggestion: if you are looking at spells and damage output, why not just do a wizard evoker, or evoker/admixture(cold), or Wizard Air school. Wizard has a much wider spell list and better casting, especially at high levels.
Wizard and Witch classes are INT based prepared spellcasters. Wiz gets 16 class skills & Witch gets 11 class skills. So wizard has a bit more leverage via knowledge skills. At high level a witch's familiar is a weak spot unlike a bonded object.
You can dress the wizard up as a witch and claim it's a "witch of the {___}". Only the specialized will know the difference.
Winter witch archetype(at 20: BAB:+10/5 FSW:+6,6,12 abilities:(12)hex+1 feats:- SplCst:4,4,4,4,4,4,4,4,4,4). or Winter Witch Prestige class(at 10 Wtch & 10 WntrWtchPC: BAB:+10/5 FSW:+6,6,12 abilities:(7)hex+8 feats:- SplCst:4,4,4,4,4,4,4,4,3,3).
Multiclassing: Cutting into spell and hex progression by multiclassing is going to hurt either class progression, the Prestige class more. You also have to ask what do you gain? If it is just a little damage it is not worth it (losing a CL and 8th & 9th lvl spell for +2 dmg and spell list for items). The point is to gain things the base class doesn't have (like AC, weapons, skills, feats). For arcane casters Monk is the usual but Fighter, Rogue, Ninja, or another style of caster (1 level) can work.
Guide to the PF1 Classes at ZG
Actually i dont lose any caster level, magical knack(witch) boosts my CL back to 20. And the winter witch is pretty useful because the 2 archetypes increase my cold spell dc by 2, winter witch prestige class allows me to affect cold immune and cold resistant creatures with cold spells.
Spell progression wise the winter witch prestige class already set my spells progression at 19th level witch. Losing 1 level of witch loses 1 9th level spell , 1 dc on all my hexes(being lvl 19 hexes now) and one grand hex(which i took extra hex to compensate for). In exchange i get +2 dmg on every dmg dice for cold spells not just a flat +2 dmg. So a spell that deals 5d6 cold will now do 5d6+10 cold damage.
I was just wondering if this trade would be considered worth it or if i should just stick to full winter witch.
As for my i dont go evoker, witch witch gives the sculpt ice and freeze water abilities and the dmg resist and immunity bypass which are pretty cool and flavourful abilities. Plus i really like the idea of a winter witch who hails from the frozen wastes and has mastered the power of winter itself
well with blood havok added you get 3 extra damage per dice rolled as long as the spell is form the bloodline or you have spell focus for it (which you should if you care for dc) so them 5d6 get a +15 to it.
Magical Knack boosts your caster level for damage and other level dependent aspects but does not grant you the spell slots. So, a one-level dip will mean you have the spells of an 19th level character but cast them as if you were a 20th level character.
I haven't had a chance to play her yet but I've made this exact character. If you stack the Invoker archetype with Winter Witch, you can get an invocation that gives you +1 insight damage per dice. And at level 10, you can use 2 invocations at the same time, netting a DC boost as well. You lose the hexes at level one and 8, but the Winter Witch PrC will give back the one you would have lost at 16.
Maniacwyrm wrote: Actually i dont lose any caster level, magical knack(witch) boosts my CL back to 20. And the winter witch is pretty useful because the 2 archetypes increase my cold spell dc by 2, winter witch prestige class allows me to affect cold immune and cold resistant creatures with cold spells.
Spell progression wise the winter witch prestige class already set my spells progression at 19th level witch. Losing 1 level of witch loses 1 9th level spell , 1 dc on all my hexes(being lvl 19 hexes now) and one grand hex(which i took extra hex to compensate for). In exchange i get +2 dmg on every dmg dice for cold spells not just a flat +2 dmg. So a spell that deals 5d6 cold will now do 5d6+10 cold damage.
I was just wondering if this trade would be considered worth it or if i should just stick to full winter witch.
As for my i dont go evoker, witch witch gives the sculpt ice and freeze water abilities and the dmg resist and immunity bypass which are pretty cool and flavourful abilities. Plus i really like the idea of a winter witch who hails from the frozen wastes and has mastered the power of winter itself
no, Magical Knack trait doesn't quite work that way. You lose a caster level with the prestige class, so at 19 for spell slots. If you multiclass 1 level you lose another, so 18th spell slots, spell levels 4,4,4,4,4,4,3,3,2 (lose 7th,9th from 19th). For duration Magical Knack will boost CL to 20. The DC is set to (10 +(WtcLvl(=Wtch+PrstgLvl)=19)/2 +INT){round down causes Lvl/2=9 rather than 10} as the trait bonus doesn't help since it say's witch's level not "caster level".
Affecting cold creatures with cold isn't all that great. You could, for instance, just use [fire] and get a free empower spell effect due to vulnerabilities and casters with variable spells, metamagics, or class abilities can do it quite easily. It mechanically is there as winter witches can not learn or cast [fire] spells (I mean not even wands!).
The really good part in the prestige class is Unearthly Cold (Su) where half of the cold damage becomes "otherworldly"(like holy/unholy).
Is it worth it? There are two ways to look at it, math-wise and RP wise. Math-wise losing a 9th and 7th is equivalent to losing 16 spell levels or a potential 16d6 damage or 56 pts overall. It is worse if not all of your spells are damaging spells as the damage boost does not affect defensive or utility spells and witches aren't known for their outright blasting (unlike evokers). It is similar to Empower metamagic (+2) in power and numbers.
On the plus side a level in sorcerer opens up the spell list for item activation and limits the usefulness of UMD. I don't know that a couple of first level spells will make any difference. Trying for the Orc Bloodline to get +1 to damage dice is the usual tact here. It's likely your GM will decide that the fire spells won't apply due to winter witch limitations and they are only first level spells cast at 1st...
From an Roleplay perspective it's good as it certainly is a bragging point but without spellcraft I don't know that PCs will be aware of the fact. The ice sculpting of the prestige class is nice.
What class you play is a personal choice and fun is a big part of it.
Azothath wrote: Magical Knack trait ... Is it worth it?... I wandered about a bit, so...
Do I think it's worth taking a level in sorcerer? No.
I think you don't gain enough to make up for the loss.
Alternatives?: no, not really. I think thematic PrCs kinda lock you in for the most part so you'd have to lose a level or two in the base class. You can only afford to lose 1 witch level before you lose a Grand Hex which is clearly disadvantageous.
I'd read the Witch/Winter Witch class guide(s) on Zenith Games.
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