Buckler


Rules Discussion


Can a gymnast swashbuckler grapple with a Buckler in hand? Can he carry potions with a Buckler in hand?


Bucklers don't take up a hand at all. If you are grappling something with the arm it's on your wouldn't be able to raise the buckler, but it doesn't get in the way. Potions have light bulb so you could raise one while carrying a potion in hand.

Shadow Lodge

Atalius wrote:
Can a gymnast swashbuckler grapple with a Buckler in hand? Can he carry potions with a Buckler in hand?
Buckler wrote:

Source Core Rulebook pg. 277 4.0

Price 1 gp; AC Bonus +1; Speed Penalty
Bulk L; Hardness 3; HP (BT) 6 (3)
This very small shield is a favorite of duelists and quick, lightly armored warriors. It’s typically made of steel and strapped to your forearm. You can Raise a Shield with your buckler as long as you have that hand free or are holding a light object that’s not a weapon in that hand.

You can Grapple with your 'shield hand' but can not Raise A Shield while doing so as you no longer "have that hand free or are holding a light object that’s not a weapon in that hand."

You can carry a potion in your 'shield hand' and take the Raise A Shield action, as it fits into the "a light object that’s not a weapon" category.

Liberty's Edge

Taja the Barbarian wrote:
Atalius wrote:
Can a gymnast swashbuckler grapple with a Buckler in hand? Can he carry potions with a Buckler in hand?
Buckler wrote:

Source Core Rulebook pg. 277 4.0

Price 1 gp; AC Bonus +1; Speed Penalty
Bulk L; Hardness 3; HP (BT) 6 (3)
This very small shield is a favorite of duelists and quick, lightly armored warriors. It’s typically made of steel and strapped to your forearm. You can Raise a Shield with your buckler as long as you have that hand free or are holding a light object that’s not a weapon in that hand.

You can Grapple with your 'shield hand' but can not Raise A Shield while doing so as you no longer "have that hand free or are holding a light object that’s not a weapon in that hand."

You can carry a potion in your 'shield hand' and take the Raise A Shield action, as it fits into the "a light object that’s not a weapon" category.

I have seen it argued on these boards that you only need a free hand when you use the Grapple action and that the hand is still free after you used the action, whatever its result.

And I do not recall any RAW clearly forbidding this.

Shadow Lodge

The Raven Black wrote:
Taja the Barbarian wrote:
Atalius wrote:
Can a gymnast swashbuckler grapple with a Buckler in hand? Can he carry potions with a Buckler in hand?
Buckler wrote:

Source Core Rulebook pg. 277 4.0

Price 1 gp; AC Bonus +1; Speed Penalty
Bulk L; Hardness 3; HP (BT) 6 (3)
This very small shield is a favorite of duelists and quick, lightly armored warriors. It’s typically made of steel and strapped to your forearm. You can Raise a Shield with your buckler as long as you have that hand free or are holding a light object that’s not a weapon in that hand.

You can Grapple with your 'shield hand' but can not Raise A Shield while doing so as you no longer "have that hand free or are holding a light object that’s not a weapon in that hand."

You can carry a potion in your 'shield hand' and take the Raise A Shield action, as it fits into the "a light object that’s not a weapon" category.

I have seen it argued on these boards that you only need a free hand when you use the Grapple action and that the hand is still free after you used the action, whatever its result.

And I do not recall any RAW clearly forbidding this.

The actual Grapple rules seem to strongly lean against this interpretation:

Attack

Source Core Rulebook pg. 242 4.0
Requirements You have at least one free hand or have your target grappled or restrained. Your target isn't more than one size larger than you.

You attempt to grab a creature or object with your free hand. Attempt an Athletics check against the target's Fortitude DC. You can Grapple a target you already have grabbed or restrained without having a hand free.

Critical Success Your target is restrained until the end of your next turn unless you move or your target Escapes.
Success Your target is grabbed until the end of your next turn unless you move or your target Escapes.
Failure You fail to grab your target. If you already had the target grabbed or restrained using a Grapple, those conditions on that creature or object end.
Critical Failure If you already had the target grabbed or restrained, it breaks free. Your target can either grab you, as if it succeeded at using the Grapple action against you, or force you to fall and land prone.

The requirement of either "You have at least one free hand or have your target grappled or restrained" indicates (to me at least) that grappling a foe does not automatically leave that hand 'free': If it did, they wouldn't have needed the "or have your target grappled or restrained" clause at all...


That sort of argument is purely academic, since literally no GM is going to accept it unless it's with the intent of screwing the party by it later


The Raven Black wrote:

I have seen it argued on these boards that you only need a free hand when you use the Grapple action and that the hand is still free after you used the action, whatever its result.

And I do not recall any RAW clearly forbidding this.

It isn't clearly forbidden, true.

But there are many who will rule that after successfully grappling, that hand is occupied holding the enemy.

Liberty's Edge

Finoan wrote:
The Raven Black wrote:

I have seen it argued on these boards that you only need a free hand when you use the Grapple action and that the hand is still free after you used the action, whatever its result.

And I do not recall any RAW clearly forbidding this.

It isn't clearly forbidden, true.

But there are many who will rule that after successfully grappling, that hand is occupied holding the enemy.

I believe so too. But it should have been more clearly written.


Ehh, this is one of those situations where you gotta ask how much more clearly do they need to write "You attempt to grab a creature or object with your free hand" which has the potential to inflict the GRABBED or restrained conditions, and not have some jackass argue that it doesn't occupy that hand?

Not you, Raven. I know you're not the one arguing this BS


You could carry it, you couldn't use the buckler while carrying it as staves are weapons (and even if they weren't, they aren't light objects)


Atalius wrote:
Now would you be able to carry a staff in the Buckler hand or would that be considered a "weapon"?

Yes, staff is a weapon: "Staves are also staff weapons."


A feature that a Coda doesn't have.

Shadow Lodge

Farien wrote:
A feature that a Coda doesn't have.

A Musical Instrument (Handheld) is 1 Bulk, so holding it still prevents you from raising a Buckler on that arm...

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