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In practice there's no a full OFFICIALLY when we talk about TTRPGs. What we have is the RAW, Homebrew and what your GM will accept.
If you GM will accept the CRB old rules you can use it without problem. They are balanced to be used with remaster without problem. Same for cantrip that was errata. You can use it as you wanted.
Now that said. We also have the PFS accepted because their multi-gm system requires more strict rules to keep the same gameplay felling when playing with same characters in different tables GMed by different peoples.
In PFS the rules is that they use the most updated rules (from errata and remaster) allowing any other old rules that wasn't already updated by remaster or the erratas. They set that if a thing was updated without name change this thing will be used as its most recent version.
For example. They accept both Ignite and Produce Flame, but their Produce Flame version was updated by Remaster Compatibility errata and is now 2d4 instead of fire damage equal to 1d4 + your spellcasting ability modifier basically making it almost equal to Ignite.
So if you want some "official" rules I recommend to get the set of rules of PFS once that's is more closer we get from official but for home games you can use any version of the rules without worry that the game will broke because of this.
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Any spell that does not have a clear and obvious analogue will still be available in my games.
Hey folks, simple question.
I am shocked by the fact that all cantrips have been given a range of 30 feet, and I was wondering if officially, the spells and cantrips present in the original PF2E rules were still usable in play without having to be approved by DMs on a case by case basis.
Thanks a lot!
I take it this comes from you being a player who wants to pull in "old" spells freely? AFAIK there is no official rule that you get to do so. The Paizo people keep mentioning that "you can still use old stuff, it's compatible," but I'm pretty sure that means "your table can choose to use old stuff" not "each player has the right to pull in old stuff at will."
TL;DR No.
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AFAIK there is no official rule that you get to do so. The Paizo people keep mentioning that "you can still use old stuff, it's compatible," but I'm pretty sure that means "your table can choose to use old stuff" not "each player has the right to pull in old stuff at will."
I see it as the opposite. It's the developers signaling that the baseline is that people are free to use older stuff unless the GM clarifies otherwise.
If it was as you stated, then they really wouldn't have needed to make any clarifying statements at all.
AFAIK there is no official rule that you get to do so. The Paizo people keep mentioning that "you can still use old stuff, it's compatible," but I'm pretty sure that means "your table can choose to use old stuff" not "each player has the right to pull in old stuff at will."I see it as the opposite. It's the developers signaling that the baseline is that people are free to use older stuff unless the GM clarifies otherwise.
If it was as you stated, then they really wouldn't have needed to make any clarifying statements at all.
Well, I think they say it in reply (sometimes pre-emptively) to people saying "So all my old books are useless?" They're clarifying that such is not the case, to forestall riots.
According to The First Rule, you can OFFICIALLY use 3rd party spells that you get from Pathfinder Infinite. You just have to have agreement from the GM and the other players at the table. That is perfectly valid by RAW.
So it is good to be clear on what you mean by 'OFFICIALLY'.
This seems to fit entirely in the "ask the GM" territory. GMs aren't obligated to let you learn spells from every single Pathfinder book anyway, but if you ask they're generally going to say yes. Like nine times out of ten when I would have issue with a player bringing me a spell it's "I'm not familiar with that spell" and so in asking you give me an opportunity to familiarize myself with it.
Generally I would not expect every GM to let you use the old cantrips with fewer dice and more static bonuses though. Synesthesia is a maybe.
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No-context quotes from a game yesterday...
Player1: If we can autopilot van to friendfetch you out of the room I can detonate the hyena in there.
GM: Is that something you can actually do?
Player2: I wonder if 'detonate the hyena' has ever been spoken before.
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Hey folks, simple question.
I am shocked by the fact that all cantrips have been given a range of 30 feet, and I was wondering if officially, the spells and cantrips present in the original PF2E rules were still usable in play without having to be approved by DMs on a case by case basis.
Thanks a lot!
Daze and Frostbite (formerly Ray of Frost) get sixty feet of range.
Nerf Daze!
I wonder if ‘nerf Daze’ has ever been spoken before.
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Nerf Daze!
I wonder if ‘nerf Daze’ has ever been spoken before.
It makes sense ... in that some might compare Daze to a Nerf dart.
It makes sense ... in that some might compare Daze to a Nerf dart.Nerf Daze!
I wonder if ‘nerf Daze’ has ever been spoken before.
I don't know... I've actually used a nerf dart before.
I think Daze is overnerfed if it was 30ft.
It's 60' now but retains the rest... With Frostbite [cold vs fort], Needle Darts [piercing vs AC] and Divine Lance [spirit vs AC] having 60' too and having a heightened of +1 [vs +2 for daze] it leaves it pretty lackluster: About its only unique feature its requiring a will save for mental damage for a cantrip but it will quickly lag behind other single target cantrips so you'll really have to want that will save or mental damage. IMO they overvalue the crit fail stun and would have been better off making heightened +1 and make the crit fail condition like it says in the spell table description: "Cloud a creature’s mind to make it off-guard or slow."
It's 60' now but retains the rest... With Frostbite [cold vs fort], Needle Darts [piercing vs AC] and Divine Lance [spirit vs AC] having 60' too and having a heightened of +1 [vs +2 for daze] it leaves it pretty lackluster: About its only unique feature its requiring a will save for mental damage for a cantrip but it will quickly lag behind other single target cantrips so you'll really have to want that will save or mental damage. IMO they overvalue the crit fail stun and would have been better off making heightened +1 and make the crit fail condition like it says in the spell table description: "Cloud a creature’s mind to make it off-guard or slow."I think Daze is overnerfed if it was 30ft.
Daze was originally sixty feet as well. The only real change is the first level damage going from caster modifier to 1d6, as well as the changes to spell school and components. I remember trying to use it in a 'this spell can be useful' attempt. This lasted until the next morning when I put Electric Arc in its slot instead.
Daze was originally sixty feet as well. The only real change is the first level damage going from caster modifier to 1d6, as well as the changes to spell school and components. I remember trying to use it in a 'this spell can be useful' attempt. This lasted until the next morning when I put Electric Arc in its slot instead.
Ok, i wasn't sure on the range: it's not a big factor.
I too tried out daze but... yeah. Retrained the feat i used to get the it for another one. Never had a crit fail and might have done 20 damage in 3 levels and i was fighting mostly goblins [all with will as lowest save].
Daze was originally sixty feet as well. The only real change is the first level damage going from caster modifier to 1d6, as well as the changes to spell school and components. I remember trying to use it in a 'this spell can be useful' attempt. This lasted until the next morning when I put Electric Arc in its slot instead.Ok, i wasn't sure on the range: it's not a big factor.
I too tried out daze but... yeah. Retrained the feat i used to get the it for another one. Never had a crit fail and might have done 20 damage in 3 levels and i was fighting mostly goblins [all with will as lowest save].
Did you mean to post something Ravingdork?
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Daze was originally sixty feet as well. The only real change is the first level damage going from caster modifier to 1d6, as well as the changes to spell school and components. I remember trying to use it in a 'this spell can be useful' attempt. This lasted until the next morning when I put Electric Arc in its slot instead.Ok, i wasn't sure on the range: it's not a big factor.
I too tried out daze but... yeah. Retrained the feat i used to get the it for another one. Never had a crit fail and might have done 20 damage in 3 levels and i was fighting mostly goblins [all with will as lowest save].
I do not know about Remaster, but before that Daze was THE nonlethal Common cantrip.
I don’t know about post Warsaw Pact, but before then the Yugo was THE communist bloc car export.
A fist only takes one action, does comparable damage when Daze is a meaningful contributor to nonlethal takedowns to monster HP pools, and doesn’t take up a cantrip slot.
I do not know about Remaster, but before that Daze was THE nonlethal Common cantrip.
It still has it. I think I'd rather take the nonlethal spell feat if a REALLY wanted nonlethal cantrip [even if that means multiclass wizard dedication and basic arcana].
I don’t know about post Warsaw Pact, but before then the Yugo was THE communist bloc car export.
A fist only takes one action, does comparable damage when Daze is a meaningful contributor to nonlethal takedowns to monster HP pools, and doesn’t take up a cantrip slot.
Even the wizard can use a Blowgun and Juggling Club for ranged nonlethal...and if you can use martial, Bola and Dart Umbrella works too.
Did you mean to post something Ravingdork?
Not sure what happened. Slow connection at the office has been messing me up all day.
What I typed in my message was:
Daze was originally sixty feet as well. The only real change is the first level damage going from caster modifier to 1d6, as well as the changes to spell school and components. I remember trying to use it in a 'this spell can be useful' attempt. This lasted until the next morning when I put Electric Arc in its slot instead.Ok, i wasn't sure on the range: it's not a big factor.
I too tried out daze but... yeah. Retrained the feat i used to get the it for another one. Never had a crit fail and might have done 20 damage in 3 levels and i was fighting mostly goblins [all with will as lowest save].
60 foot range IS a big factor when that's the highest range of any offensive Remaster cantrip.
Not sure what happened. Slow connection at the office has been messing me up all day.
No worries, i figured as much.
60 foot range IS a big factor when that's the highest range of any offensive Remaster cantrip.
Slashing Gust was pre-compatible with the remaster, has 60' range, can attacks 2 creatures and doesn't have a bad heighten. Needle Darts has a range of 60, does good base damage, heightens fine and can trigger metal weaknesses.
And in the remaster, frostbite which also doesn't have a heighten that sucks. So 3 remastered cantrips with 60'... I'm good with those 3 and can leave daze in the dustbin.
Not sure what happened. Slow connection at the office has been messing me up all day.No worries, i figured as much.
60 foot range IS a big factor when that's the highest range of any offensive Remaster cantrip.Slashing Gust was pre-compatible with the remaster, has 60' range, can attacks 2 creatures and doesn't have a bad heighten. Needle Darts has a range of 60, does good base damage, heightens fine and can trigger metal weaknesses.
And in the remaster, frostbite which also doesn't have a heighten that sucks. So 3 remastered cantrips with 60'... I'm good with those 3 and can leave daze in the dustbin.
Frostbite heightens. +1d4 and crit fail's weakness +1 per rank.
So 3 remastered cantrips with 60'... I'm good with those 3 and can leave daze in the dustbin.
Totes fair.
Hey folks, simple question.
I am shocked by the fact that all cantrips have been given a range of 30 feet, and I was wondering if officially, the spells and cantrips present in the original PF2E rules were still usable in play without having to be approved by DMs on a case by case basis.
Thanks a lot!
I have no idea what you're talking about here. I don't think any cantrips got its range shortened to 30 feet. Ray of Frost went from 120 to 60 feet as Frostbite, and Divine Lance increased its range from 30 to 60. Meanwhile everything that is 30 feet now was 30 feet before. And we have other 60 foot range cantrips with Needle Darts and Slashing Gust.