I’m currently playing an oracle with dragon mystery. The dragon mystery gives antimagic field as bonus spell at oracle level 12 and true seeing at level 14.
From this FAQ it seems obvious I get antimagic field as 6th level spell to my spell list and also get it as a spell known. This doesn’t remove antimagic field from the oracle spell list as 8th level spell.
From this FAQ one could argue that it is added as separate spell known.
The same conflict but vice versa applies at oracle level 14 for dragon mystery bonus spell true seeing.
Question one: Can I cast antimagic field as an 6th and 8th level spell without using heighten spell or would I need to learn it as a spell known at 8th level to do so?
Question two: Can I cast true seeing as a 5th and 7th level spell or would I need to learn it as a spell known at 5th level to do so?
The bonus spell doesn’t count against your spells known. The regular spell level version still requires you pick it .
That’s a valuable spell known to use on something so redundant. And the usefulness of the higher spell level for these spells is super niche.
Thank you for the quick response.
To me it seems rather counter intuitve to be in need of picking the same spell twice as spell know to cast it on both slots of the spell list.
However it seems weird to be twice on my spell list in the first place. Especially with true seeing wich is added at a higher level than normal.
Would you be so kind to tell me what makes you come to the conclusion?
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Maybe I'm missing an edge case, but why would you want to cast antimagic field as an 8th-level spell in your situation? There's no saving throw and the SR check is set by Caster Level, not spell level.
As a spontaneous caster you can always cast a lower level spell in a higher level slot without needing any metamagics, etc. You can cast cure light wounds using a 1st-level slot, 2nd-level slot, 3rd, etc. all the way up to 9th-level. In practice the only time you would ever use an 8th-level slot to cast antimagic field is if you have used up all your 6th and 7th level slots for the day and really want to cast antimagic field.
As for true seeing, you have to use a 7th level or higher slot. For you it is a 7th level spell known. Unless you also select it with one of your regular oracle spells known. In which case you would know it as a 5th and (redundantly) as a 7th level spell and could cast it using any slot of 5th level or higher.
Unless you really think you're going to need true seeing a lot (don't forget the material component!) I wouldn't spend a spell known pick on it.
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To answer your question: I don't want to cast antimagic field at all.
Me: "I cast Antimagic Field."
GM: "Let's meet tomorrow, once everybody recalculated their high level Character without magic."
There are some differences like spell DC and dispelling order that make a difference whether you use a higher level spell slot or you use a higher level spell. Which is the reason heighten spell exists in the first place. This might normally not be important for Antimagic Field. This case would however also apply to the aquatic sorcerer bloodline and the geyser spell mentioned in the FAQ above which has a save DC.
Thank you for your help, I really appreciate it. I'm not really looking for advice on spell selection here. I'm trying to understand how the spell list works with spells known. Typically if you have a spell on your spell list and also as spell known, you can cast it on the indicated level. The rare case that the same spell is twice on your spell list is to my knowledge not covered in the rules.
However, so far most people seem to think that the rules imply, that if you have the same spell twice on your spell list, you also need to have it twice as spell known to cast it on both spell levels (not just use a different spell slot). Sadly I still don't understand how you come to this result.
There is a difference between casting a spell as specific level spell and using a higher-level spell slot to cast the spell. Any caster can use a higher-level spell slot to cast a lower-level spell. When they do so it does not change the level of the spell and all variables based on the spell level are calculated as the actual level of the spell. For example, if you cast Burning Hands in a 9th level slot its save does not increase, and it cannot penetrate a globe of invulnerability. If you used Heightened Spell, it would be treated as a 9th level spell including increasing its save and being able to penetrate a globe of invulnerability. But you can never use a lower-level slot to cast a higher-level spell.
An Oracles gets his bonus spells and his choice of cure/inflict wounds spells for free at the appropriate level. These are in addition to their spell knows they can choose from. The mystery spells are often unusual spells from other list or in some cases oracle spells gained as a different level spell. In many cases they are often gained as lower-level spells, but sometimes they are gained as higher-level spells. True seeing is just one of those cases. The reason it is granted as a higher-level spell is because you only gain one spell of each level as a mystery spell. In this case the designer chooses to give you Antimagic Shell in the 6th level slot so pushed up True Seeing to a 7th level slot. An Oracle like all spontaneous casters can trade out one of his normal spells knows at certain levels for one of the same level. This would allow you to swap out true seeing for another 5th level spell when you reach 14th level and gain it as a mystery spell, but then you would not be able to cast it as a 5th level spell.
What it really comes down to is that sometimes several spells of the same level fit the theme of the mystery. When that happens, the developer has will assign the spell a different level than normal to fit the structure of the class. That is what happened for these spells. Both of these spells are really appropriate for a dragon, but they had other equally appropriate spells taking those slots. This mystery grants you Antimagic shell 2 spell levels early, but True Seeing 1 level latter.
I guess I'm not communicating my question clearly enough. Obviously English is not my first language, maybe this is the problem. I do understand how spellcasting works in general. I'm playing pathfinder first edition ever since the core rulebook came out. So I am aware of the difference between an actual spell level and the spell slot I'm using to cast a spell.
My confusion mainly results of the fact, that apparently I have the same spell twice on my spell list at different spell levels and how this fact interacts with spells known. Seemingly most people think, this means I can also have it twice as spell known and if I want to be able to cast it on both spell levels (not just use another spell slot) I also need to have it as spell known twice. I just don't understand where this comes from.
The only explanation I could imagine would be, that through the fact, that those two spells have different spell levels they are different spells. This however wouldn't work, because this would mean, that a bard could not use a level three scroll of heroism, created by a wizard, without UMD. Since heroism is a bard 2nd level and wizard 3rd level spell. Since this is not the case and a bard can use a wizard scroll even if the spell is on a different spell level. I just don't understand where this could possibly come from.
The Oracle actually has two spell lists. The first is the full list of oracle spells; this contains all normal spells the class (not the specific oracle) can use. The second list is your spells known. When you choose your spells known they are chosen from the full oracle list. You also add either all cure or inflict wounds spells to your list of spells known. Finally, you add any spells granted by your mystery at the listed level. The mystery spells are added to both lists.
For casting spells using your Oracle spell slots the only thing that matters is your list of spells known. If True Seeing is not on your list of spells known as a 5th level spell you cannot cast it as a 5th level spell. The Dragon Mystery grants the spell as a 7th level spell, so the mystery is adding it to both your spells known and your full spell list.
The spells on your full list that are not on your list of spells known can only be used from items like wands, scrolls, staves etc. By having True Seeing as both a 5th level spell and a 7th level spell you can use items that have it as a 5th level spell. If you want to cast it as a 5th level spell using your Oracle spell slots you have to choose it as one of your 5th level spells known. Considering Oracles have limited number of spells few players are going to do this. You could as I mentioned in my previous post take it before you gain 7th level spells and then swap it out once you gained it as a mystery spell, so you don’t end up with duplicate spells on your list of spells known.
So you are basically saying a spell known is also tied to a spell level? Just like spells per day are bound to a spell level. I always thought of spells known just as a list of spells that the character knows. Obviously I can select from the list of the appropriated level as indicated on the table of the class. And obviously I need the appropriate level of spell slot to cast the spell, but I never thought of spells known as its own spell list that also implies specific spell levels on a spell known.
Seeing it this way, it makes sense for it to be a limiting factor. Thank you very much. Do you happen to know the place where the rules explain that?
For casting spells using your Oracle spell slots the only thing that matters is your list of spells known.
Side note:
This is not entirely correct. You also need the spell on you actual spell list not just on your spells known as per this FAQ
That FAQ is pretty confusing and I think you'd be better off to ignore it.
New Spells Known: If I gain the ability to add a spell that is not on my spell list to my list of spells known, without adding it to my spell list, can I cast it?
No. Adding a spell to your list of spells known does not add it to the spell list of that class unless they are added by a class feature of that same class. For example, sorcerers add their bloodline spells to their sorcerer spell list and oracles add their mystery spells to their oracle spell list. The spell slots of a class can only be used to cast spells that appear on the spell list of that class.
Except that example seems to be counter to the rules as written. Sorcerer bloodlines and Oracle mysteries only ever explicitly add to their list of spells known, not their class spell list. We can assume that they are also added to the class spell list, but in that case, we would have to assume the same for every other ability that adds to your list of spells known.
I'm not sure what the author was trying to say there, but it's obviously confused in some manner.
It's possible that this was in reference to having multiple spontaneous spellcasting classes. If an ability gives your oracle levels a bonus spell known, your sorcerer levels can't be used to cast that spell.
That FAQ is pretty confusing and I think you'd be better off to ignore it.
I try to understand the rules, ignoring FAQ seems like the opposite of what I want to do.
Also it seems pretty clear to me, what the author is saying: You add the bonus spells of your class, both to your spell list and to your spells known.
It might not be rules as written, but that was obviously unclear before, because the rules as written weren't clear enough.
So, does that answer your question?
The FAQ specifically sates if the spell is added by a class feature of the class it is also added to the spell list as well as the spells known. It even gives the oracle mystery spells as an example. So, while there may be ways to add a spell to your list of spells known without it being added to your spell list, that does not apply in this circumstance.
The description of spells known in any spontaneous caster has a chart with a list of spells known. That chart is indexed by spell level. A 14th level Oracle knows 1 7th level spell, plus cure/inflict wounds mass and your mystery spell. That gives the Oracle 3 7th level spells known.
This assumption is also supported on how NPC's are presented. Showing a spell list, subdivided by level with the headline "Spells Known". So you are probably right.
The description of spells known in any spontaneous caster has a chart with a list of spells known. That chart is indexed by spell level. A 14th level Oracle knows 1 7th level spell, plus cure/inflict wounds mass and your mystery spell. That gives the Oracle 3 7th level spells known.
I always took all those as pure format decisions to help the reader see easily the options available. So I can easily see that I can choose 3 level 7th spells at Oracle level 14th. I simply never thought of it as a spell list of its own. I still would prefer a rule clearly stating whether a spell known is fixed to a spell level or not, but i guess I won't get that.
However, so far most people seem to think that the rules imply, that if you have the same spell twice on your spell list, you also need to have it twice as spell known to cast it on both spell levels (not just use a different spell slot). Sadly I still don't understand how you come to this result.
The spell is added to the spell list. The FAQ says you "get" a lower level version of a spell already on the list, and since nothing says the existing version is modified, the other FAQ makes it so that the lower levle version is added. But nothing says that you automatically learn the higher level version, and therefore you don't.
Basically, you have the spell "Antimagic Field (lvl 6)" and the spell "Antimagic Field (lvl 8)". They do the same, but they are seperate, different spells for spell list and spells known purposes.
As for true seeing, you have to use a 7th level or higher slot. For you it is a 7th level spell known. Unless you also select it with one of your regular oracle spells known. In which case you would know it as a 5th and (redundantly) as a 7th level spell and could cast it using any slot of 5th level or higher.
Legacy of Dragons is literally the worst edited book in Paizo history. There's a Fighter archetype that says it replaces the bonus feats at 3rd and 5th level...
Except that example seems to be counter to the rules as written.
It's only contradictory if you assume that the FAQ merely explains the existing rules. And while that's what FAQs are supposed to be fore, Paizo has a long history of creating rules in FAQs, and that's what happens here: The previous sentence of the FAQ makes that rule, and the part you bolded is an example of this newly created rule.
With that FAQ, when a class feature adds something to your list of spells know, it also adds it to the class's spell list, and as a spontaneous caster you need to have a spell on both your spell list and as a spell know in order to cast it.
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The faq was made because prior to it you could do things like use Paragon surge to grab improved eldritch heritage (arcane) temporarily grab it's 9th level power and add any wizard spell to your spells known and cast them with Oracle spell slots.
But that doesn't add them to the class spell list, which is partially why that FAQ exists
We abused some power back in the day and the devs nerf'd a few things related to an over powered Oracle build.
Thats one of the faqs that has to be made, along with changing how strong Oracle fcb were
This assumption is also supported on how NPC's are presented. Showing a spell list, subdivided by level with the headline "Spells Known". So you are probably right.
The description of spells known in any spontaneous caster has a chart with a list of spells known. That chart is indexed by spell level. A 14th level Oracle knows 1 7th level spell, plus cure/inflict wounds mass and your mystery spell. That gives the Oracle 3 7th level spells known.I always took all those as pure format decisions to help the reader see easily the options available. So, I can easily see that I can choose 3 level 7th spells at Oracle level 14th. I simply never thought of it as a spell list of its own. I still would prefer a rule clearly stating whether a spell known is fixed to a spell level or not, but i guess I won't get that.
Actually, you can only choose 1 7th level spell at 14th level. The other two are specific spells based on earlier choices. One is based on your mystery and the other based on your choice at 1st level to gain either all cure or all inflict spells.
Unlike other divine spellcasters, an oracle's selection of spells is extremely limited. An oracle begins play knowing four 0-level spells and two 1st-level spells of her choice. At each new oracle level, she gains one or more new spells, as indicated on Table 2–6. Unlike spells per day, the number of spells an oracle knows is not affected by her Charisma score; the numbers on Table 2–6 are fixed.
The bolded part of the section shows the spells known are in fact by spell level. It also states the numbers are fixed. So, at 6th level an Oracle has 7 0 level spells, 4 1st level spells, 2 2nd level spell and 1 3rd level spell.
In addition to the spells gained by oracles as they gain levels, each oracle also adds all of either the cure spells or the inflict spells to her list of spells known (cure spells include all spells with “cure” in the name, inflict spells include all spells with “inflict” in the name). These spells are added as soon as the oracle is capable of casting them. This choice is made when the oracle gains her first level and cannot be changed.
At 2nd level, and every two levels thereafter, an oracle learns an additional spell derived from her mystery. These spells are in addition to the number of spells given on Table 2–6. They cannot be exchanged for different spells at higher levels.
The two sections above show that cure light wounds, cure moderate wounds and cure serious wounds are also added to their list of spells known. Those spells are already on the oracle list so do not need to be added. At 2nd, 4th and 6th level the Oracle also gains their mystery spell. If those spells are not on the Oracle list, they are added to it as well as the list of spells known.
That makes it about as clear as it can be how Oracles gain spells. An Oracle can only learn spells as specified by table 2-6. The 6th level Oracle could not for example choose to learn 5 1st spells, 1 2nd level spell, and 1 3rd level spell. They learn what is on the chart, no more, no less.
Don’t forget spells gained from curses. Although, those really do require us to take leaps of faith about their spell level, since those can level independent of oracle level.
Yea some curses can give spells. Curse spells get added to the spell list if they are not normally oracle spells because the curse is an oracle class feature. If they are not oracle spells you use the level of the spell list they came from. The same goes for revelations that give spells known.
Basically, you have the spell "Antimagic Field (lvl 6)" and the spell "Antimagic Field (lvl 8)". They do the same, but they are seperate, different spells for spell list and spells known purposes.
Like I said before they cannot really be different spells, otherwise we get problems concerning magic Items. However if a spell known is also connected to a specific spell level I need several spells known. Since basically everybody seems to think so, I accept that.
Unlike other divine spellcasters, an oracle's selection of spells is extremely limited. An oracle begins play knowing four 0-level spells and two 1st-level spells of her choice. At each new oracle level, she gains one or more new spells, as indicated on Table 2–6. Unlike spells per day, the number of spells an oracle knows is not affected by her Charisma score; the numbers on Table 2–6 are fixed.
The bolded part of the section shows the spells known are in fact by spell level. It also states the numbers are fixed. So, at 6th level an Oracle has 7 0 level spells, 4 1st level spells, 2 2nd level spell and 1 3rd level spell.
Just because I know spells of a specific level doesn't necessarily means that the spell known is linked to a level that I learned it on. It could merely mean that when learning spells (get to know it -> get it as spell known) I have to select a spell that is available on that level. I'm actually convinced that the author of these words never meant to cover the edge case of a single spell being on several spell levels. However like I said before I accept that a spell known is linked to a spell level, by the fact, that seemingly everybody is convinced of it. So I probably just never got that and am grateful that you guys explained that to me.
In Pathfinder spells have specific levels. You mentioned English is not your primary language, and I think this might be part of the problem. Saying the oracle begins play knowing 4 0 level spells and 2 1st level spells means exactly that. You know 4 0 level spells, and 2 1st level spells you cannot choose to learn spells of a different level, nor do the spells ever change level. Those 0 level spells remain 0 level spells as do spells of every other level. Those sections I posted were cut and pasted from the rules.
Another thing that could be causing you problems is that different spell lists might have the same spell at different levels. That gives the impression that the spells level is variable, but that is not the case. A spells level for a particular class is fixed for that class. In some rare cases like bonus spells for some spontaneous classes you might find a spell added to the list at a different level. In that case you end up with duplicate spells on the list. But the limiting factor for spontaneous casters is the spells known so actually does not matter.
The next line of a spell description gives the spell's level, a number between 0 and 9 that defines the spell's relative power. This number is preceded by a list of classes whose members can cast the spell. A spell's level affects the DC for any save allowed against its effects.
A spells level is part of the stat block of the spell, just like its school or its range. This is fixed game mechanic not just a way of formatting a table, or a suggestion. The above section was also cut and pasted from the rules.
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In Pathfinder spells have specific levels. You mentioned English is not your primary language, and I think this might be part of the problem. Saying the oracle begins play knowing 4 0 level spells and 2 1st level spells means exactly that. You know 4 0 level spells, and 2 1st level spells you cannot choose to learn spells of a different level, nor do the spells ever change level. Those 0 level spells remain 0 level spells as do spells of every other level. Those sections I posted were cut and pasted from the rules.
Another thing that could be causing you problems is that different spell lists might have the same spell at different levels. That gives the impression that the spells level is variable, but that is not the case. A spells level for a particular class is fixed for that class. In some rare cases like bonus spells for some spontaneous classes you might find a spell added to the list at a different level. In that case you end up with duplicate spells on the list. But the limiting factor for spontaneous casters is the spells known so actually does not matter.
The next line of a spell description gives the spell's level, a number between 0 and 9 that defines the spell's relative power. This number is preceded by a list of classes whose members can cast the spell. A spell's level affects the DC for any save allowed against its effects.
A spells level is part of the stat block of the spell, just like its school or its range. This is fixed game mechanic not just a way of formatting a table, or a suggestion. The above section was also cut and pasted from the rules.
So the Oracle gains Antimagic Field at 12th level without any way to cast it for several levels? Since by this logic it's still a 7th level spell and they don't get the spell slot until 14th.
Pretty sure that's not how that works
Honestly, I think true seeing and Antimagic Field are switched.
If they got true seeing at 12 and Antimagic Field at 14, problem solved.
It might just be an oversight
Like I said before, I play pathfinder for 14 years by now. So I am well aware of all of that. Also obviously I did recognize the rules you posted. Of course I'm reading the class i'm playing, and do so more than once. I don't deny that there might be implications that I don't necessarily pick up, do to language. However I am well able to understand the rules as they are written.
The same spell can easily be available at different spell levels. And as we established before, this can't change the spell, without interfering on how pathfinder handles use of magic items. In this very case, the same spell is available at two different spell levels at the same spell list, and still it has to be the same spell, unless I and everybody I ever played with badly misunderstood, how use of magic items work.
Just to be sure, I'm giving an example, so everybody can object:
If a high level oracle of life writes a scroll of mass heal at spell level 8 (bonus spell for oracle of life level 16). Every cleric could use that scroll (if she has a sufficient caster level or makes the caster level check) even though mass heal is never a level 8 spell for anybody or on any spell list besides an oracle of life.
Not talking about any implications here but pure rules as written, it only says that I know some spells of a specific level:
"An oracle begins play knowing four 0-level spells and two 1st-level spells..."
To me, the most straight forward approach is, to assume that the rules are referring to the level of the spells in your spell list.
If you are saying, that every native English speaker recognizes, that this implies that spells known are also a spell list, with a spell level linked to each spell known, the only thing I can do, is to accept that, since English is not my first language.
The alternative would be that a spell level is not important, about whether you know a spell or not. To me it seems to make much more sense. Especially since they create the almost same spells over and over again, seemingly only so it actually is a different spell:
1. Summon monster 1-9
2. Summon nature’s ally 1-9
3. Cure (light, moderate, serious critical) Wounds (, mass)
The same goes for I don't know how many polymorph spells and don't get me started on communal or mass spells. They could have easily made all those repetitive spells into a single spell for each of them if the spell level alone would be enough to make it a different spell.
But it being weird to me is not crucial, the fact that I'm the only one with this impression says much more. So apparently I'm simply wrong and maybe just like you said, because I don't see obvious implications.
Honestly, I think true seeing and Antimagic Field are switched.
If they got true seeing at 12 and Antimagic Field at 14,...
Still not working. True Seeing is Cleric 5. This way it would be level 6.
Antimagic Field would be level 7 instead of level 8.But it would make more sense.
Heal Mass is normally a 9th level spell. An Oracle of life gets it as a 8th level spell. What that does is to put an 8th level version of the spell on that Oracles list. A cleric or an Oracle with a different mystery does not have an 8th level Heal Mass on their list.
This an unusual case that only comes up with a spontaneous caster with unusual bonus spells from their mystery or bloodline. Those type of characters have slightly altered spell lists. Sometimes this results in a spell other casters using the base spell list cannot use. An Oracle of fire gets Burning Hands and Fireball as bonus spells. if the Oracle of fire created a scroll with those spells on it a cleric would not be able to use them.
Witches and their patrons do similar things. And shaman being made of witch and oracle has the same issues.
This an unusual case that only comes up with a spontaneous caster with unusual bonus spells from their mystery or bloodline.
It's the same for cleric domains. The idea of a spell changing spell level and extending the characters spell list has nothing to do with spontaneous casters. But since a cleric has access to the whole spell list, the question won't raise. And still I'm absolutely certain that, even though the spell has different spell levels, it still has to be the same spell. Sure you need a different spell slot to cast it, and apparently a different spell known, but it necessarily need to be the same spell.
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Witches and their patrons do similar things. And shaman being made of witch and oracle has the same issues.
Since it is common knowledge that witches are made of wood, are shamans then half wood creatures?
It has the same name and similar properties, but is not the same spell. Think of it as being like a clone that was given the same name. If I clone a dog and call it the same name as the original is it the same dog? The only difference between the two is one if older. Is it the same dog?
This is getting pointless because we are not discussing anything of substance. I explained how the rules work and gave an explanation on how to think about it so it makes sense. Your way of thinking still leaves unanswered questions. Good luck in finding an answer.
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Is there an actual rule on how to determine which spell level to use for bonus spells without a specified spell level?
I've always assumed it was just 'first spell listed is 1st level, second spell listed is 2nd level...' but I just realized that I can't find this spelled out anywhere in the actual rules (I've seen the Aquatic Sorcerer + Geyser FAQ that was linked above, but this doesn't actually present a general rule to use)... Source
Advanced Player's Guide pg. 42
Mystery: ...
At 2nd level, and every two levels thereafter, an oracle learns an additional spell derived from her mystery. These spells are in addition to the number of spells given on Table 2–6. They cannot be exchanged for different spells at higher levels.
PRPG Core Rulebook pg. 70 ...Source
Bloodline: ...
At 3rd level, and every two levels thereafter, a sorcerer learns an additional spell, derived from her bloodline. These spells are in addition to the number of spells given on Table: Sorcerer Spells Known. These spells cannot be exchanged for different spells at higher levels.
Advanced Class Guide pg. 15 ...Source
Bloodline:...
At 7th, 10th, 13th, and 16th levels, a bloodrager learns an additional spell derived from his bloodline. These spells are in addition to the number of spells given on Table 1–4. These spells cannot be exchanged for different spells at higher levels.
It has the same name and similar properties, but is not the same spell. Think of it as being like a clone that was given the same name. If I clone a dog and call it the same name as the original is it the same dog? The only difference between the two is one if older. Is it the same dog?
I don't think the rules support you claim. It certainly can be seen like this, but resovles in the problems in use of magic items I explained above. Seeing it as a reference instead of a clone won't resovle in problems.
Is there an actual rule on how to determine which spell level to use for bonus spells without a specified spell level?
I don't think it is explained any further.
I've always assumed it was just 'first spell listed is 1st level, second spell listed is 2nd level...' but I just realized that I can't find this spelled out anywhere in the actual rules (I've seen the Aquatic Sorcerer + Geyser FAQ that was linked above, but this doesn't actually present a general rule to use)...
So what are you suggesting?
I still would prefer a rule clearly stating whether a spell known is fixed to a spell level or not, but i guess I won't get that.
The geyser FAQ addresses this.
Yes, and the sorcerer learns it as a 4th-level spell...
That is, for the aquatic sorcerer, geyser is a 4th level spell. If they want it as a 5th level spell they either need to heighten it, or learn it from the normal sorcerer spell list as a 5th level spell. They cannot use the 4th level spell in a 5th level slot and treat it as a 5th level spell, because as the FAQ points out, it is a 4th level spell for them.
Conversely, this means in your original example, true seeing is a 7th level spell, and thus it cannot be used in a 5th level spell slot.
The wording isn't specifically addressing your exact question, but I don't think we can assume anything different without additional developer input. And while the geyser FAQ does not make a general rule, it just as well should be considered such for bonus spells, unless anyone here thinks the examples from the OP for AMF and True Seeing, or any of the other various numerous bonus spells for sorcerers/oracles/other classes would somehow work differently than the geyser example.