Are there any Class Kits defined for the classes in Dark Archive (Psychic & Thaumaturge), Guns & Gears (Gunslinger & Inventor) and Secret of Magic (Magus & Summoner)?
If Yes; where are they located (link?)
If not; Why not?
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No, they don't exist.
They probably stopped bothering to make those because they aren't worth the page space.
No. I feel like they've answered that, but I couldn't find it off-hand.
My personal possible theories:
- Class kits are mostly useful for beginners, and spending space on them outside of core classes doesn't make sense.
- New class kits are redundant, and an existing kits do a good enough job of showing what stuff to get.
- They decided they weren't that important, and just stopped printing them. (If that's the case, we'll know if they don't show up in the remaster.)
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I often use the Adventurer's Pack for a collection of basic camping and adventuring gear. But most everything else that a character needs because of their class is very dependent on how that character is designed.
The Druid Kit for example wouldn't be very useful for a lot of Druids. Some are going to want better than Leather armor. Some are going to want different weapons. Some won't want any weapons at all. That leaves the Adventurer's Pack and the Holly and Mistletoe used as a spellcasting focus.
Do y'all think anything would break if we started giving classes certain items fore free at level 1? Examples:
Champion: 1 free set of level 0 or 1 armor, provided by your church as a badge of dedication. A champion with 10 dex starts off with lower AC than most medium armor classes and that feels off brand. Narratively it feels appropriate as well.
Gunslinger: 1 free gun of level 0 or lower. They have paths based around dual wielding but it is hard to afford two guns.
Alchemist: alchemical tools.
Cleric: holy symbol.
Wizard: spell book a material pouch.
Witch: material pouch and familiar satchel.
Why should we do this ?
Because there are certain things which define your class that you simply won't function without. It feels weird to make playing a character without them an option at all.
I'm not sure we SHOULD do it though. It is one of those "is it better to trap proof your game" or assume players will put a certain bare minimum effort and reading into realizing what they need to make the class go brrr.
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Do y'all think anything would break if we started giving classes certain items fore free at level 1? Examples:
Champion: 1 free set of level 0 or 1 armor, provided by your church as a badge of dedication. A champion with 10 dex starts off with lower AC than most medium armor classes and that feels off brand. Narratively it feels appropriate as well.
Gunslinger: 1 free gun of level 0 or lower. They have paths based around dual wielding but it is hard to afford two guns.
Alchemist: alchemical tools.
Cleric: holy symbol.
Wizard: spell book a material pouch.
Witch: material pouch and familiar satchel.
5e does this and I hate it so much. I want to start as a fighter and MC into Wizard in 5e, because that way I can cast in heavy armor. I have to track down and buy a spellbook after I get paid for my first quest, but before I level up.
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Do y'all think anything would break if we started giving classes certain items fore free at level 1? Examples:
Champion: 1 free set of level 0 or 1 armor, provided by your church as a badge of dedication. A champion with 10 dex starts off with lower AC than most medium armor classes and that feels off brand. Narratively it feels appropriate as well.
Gunslinger: 1 free gun of level 0 or lower. They have paths based around dual wielding but it is hard to afford two guns.
Alchemist: alchemical tools.
Cleric: holy symbol.
Wizard: spell book a material pouch.
Witch: material pouch and familiar satchel.
Wizards already start with a free spellbook.
You start with a spellbook worth 10 sp or less, which you receive for free and must study to prepare your spells each day.
You could give each class a handy primer on edicts and anathemas for the discerning adventurer. Extra points if written in the voice of a kewt widdle kitsune. Might be more useful than weapons and armor if those pesky adventurers want to lose the murder hobo label.
I have not seen if Paizo has shared/posted any reasons to stop adding Class Kits, but the argument that it takes up too much space seems pretty shaky at best.
The 12 classes in the CRB needs one full page; so adding Class Kits for only 2x classes would not take much space!
The argument that 'people don't use them' is immediately shot down for our group, as we use them. I don't think the metrics for Usage is available anywhere... I suspect that any Poll created on this Topic would most likely be viewed Fans of the game who make more efforts to scour information about it (like you, reading this), then the beginners who may not be as involved as these Fans...!!
It is my understanding that Class Kits are an OPTIONNAL feature we can apply at Character Creation. It is fun to have such options - doubly true for starting players as some of you pointed out.
The idea of remastering Class Kits is very interesting and could even be done as a Web Option on a PDF - I like!!
TOS Admin
The Only Sheet
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I have not seen if Paizo has shared/posted any reasons to stop adding Class Kits, but the argument that it takes up too much space seems pretty shaky at best.
The 12 classes in the CRB needs one full page; so adding Class Kits for only 2x classes would not take much space!
I have seen podcasts and such where Paizo staff have mentioned keeping track of their page count budget into the single digits. So don't undervalue the cost of one additional page.
Also, the point isn't that people don't use the kits, it is that the kits don't actually provide much value for anyone who has any familiarity with building characters and choosing equipment. Class kits are only for people who are completely new to the game. Anyone else is going to just use the generic adventurer's pack and choose additional gear as needed.
And doing that is a better option anyway - otherwise you won't necessarily get the equipment that you actually need for your character. For example, only the Druid kit even mentions needing healer's tools. So anyone not playing a Druid character who is taking Medicine skill or skill feats and is relying on class kits is going to be disappointed when they find that they don't have the equipment that they actually need.
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I feel like there's probably a better way to go about it than class kits.
Like, just have a brief walkthrough of two iconics and how their starting gear looks. Mention things like "Kyra has healers tools to make use of her medicine skill" and "Merisiel has thieves tools for Thievery, but doesn't need any items to make use of Diplomacy". (Kyra in particular seems useful for that because warpriests touch on basically everything you'd be considering during that step of character creation)
I think Kyra is cloistered.
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Class kits may have arguably done more harm than good because they came packaged with armor that wasn't necessarily meant for your build. For example, a barbarian with 12 dex shouldn't be getting hide armor, nor should a ranger without 18 dex get leather armor. Getting the wrong armor for your dexterity feels like one of the biggest newb traps to me.
I have not seen if Paizo has shared/posted any reasons to stop adding Class Kits, but the argument that it takes up too much space seems pretty shaky at best.
The 12 classes in the CRB needs one full page; so adding Class Kits for only 2x classes would not take much space!
I have seen podcasts and such where Paizo staff have mentioned keeping track of their page count budget into the single digits. So don't undervalue the cost of one additional page.
Also, the point isn't that people don't use the kits, it is that the kits don't actually provide much value for anyone who has any familiarity with building characters and choosing equipment. Class kits are only for people who are completely new to the game. Anyone else is going to just use the generic adventurer's pack and choose additional gear as needed.
And doing that is a better option anyway - otherwise you won't necessarily get the equipment that you actually need for your character. For example, only the Druid kit even mentions needing healer's tools. So anyone not playing a Druid character who is taking Medicine skill or skill feats and is relying on class kits is going to be disappointed when they find that they don't have the equipment that they actually need.
I believe they also said that they have to have page counts in a strange multiple of 8 or 16 or something due to how the printers work