Right now the best I can do is a level 1 Gathlain:
Dex 20, small size, studded leather armor, buckler, natural armor bonus, and taking Dodge at level 1 gets him an AC of 22. I haven't figured out the class yet.
If we leave out any spells, using only starting gold with whatever class you want, and not activating any special abilities, can we do better than 22?
J
If your gathlain was a fighter with a heavy shield and using the bonus feat for shield focus we could get 24.
assuming you start with the regular 2 traits. (remove them if not, so 1 less ac normally and 1 more less when fighting defensively or total defense)
a halfling fighter (start with average 175 gp) with:
tower shield (+4 to ac. max dex capped at +2, cost 30 gp)
Armored kilt + Four-mirror armor > combination allowed via armored kilt, count as heavy armor. (total armor ac +7, max dex capped at +2 cost 20 gp for kilt and 125 gp for mirror armor total 145 gp).
14 total dex for +2 dex to ac.
the trait aldori caution - increase dodge ac of fighting defensively or total defense by 1.
the trait Blighted Physiology for +1 nat ac. (do mind the drawback)
the feat cautious fighter add +2 when fighting defensively or total defense.
1 fighter feat used for dodge.
+1 to ac for being small.
when he fight normally he's ac is :
10+1(size) +7 (armor ac) +4 (shield ac) +1 (fighter feat) +2 (dex) +1 (nat ac, trait) = 26.
if he is fighting defensively he take -4 to hit but gain : +2 dodge (normal rules) +2 (feat) +1 (trait) = total ac of 31.
if he uses total defense he can't fight (normally) but he gain +4 to ac from the action instead of the +2 above so the total ac would be 33.
one can play around with the traits or feat (like getting the pathfinder society trait that increase your ac when wearing armor, but some gm might limit that one) but the overall ac range should be the same.
depending on how you get your wealth you might even start with a better armor.
other ac feats you might want to look at if you do not like fighting defensively include armor of the pit (for Tieflings. maybe get a small one), shield focus, armor focus etc
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Gathlian Vigilante (Masked Maiden) = AC 28
Feat = Armor Focus
Trait = Defender of the Society
Small = +1
Gathlian = +1 natural
Gray Maiden Plate = +9
Tower Shield = +4
Dex = +1
Defender of the Society = +1 trait
Armor Focus= +1
That's only one trait. I feel like I should be able to find a trait that either increases your Max Dex or gives you an enhancement bonus to natural armor. (Blighted Physiology does not stack with the Gathlian's natural armor bonus.)
There are plenty of traits that give you situational bonuses (fighting defensively, etc.), but I am trying to stick to the original idea of "no activated abilities."
You might need to use one of those traits in order to afford that armor.
Don't forget Fighting Defensively gives +2 AC and Total Defence gives +4 AC. There are some feats/traits/etc that depend on fighting defensively, so adding these could make a difference.
Gathlian Vigilante (Masked Maiden) = AC 28
** spoiler omitted **
** spoiler omitted **
This is a great build! The only thing that doesn't work at level 1 is Defender of the Society, as it requires a level in fighter before you can take it.
It would still work if I took my first level in fighter, then at level 2 took the Gray Maiden level. Not sure if it'd be best to take the rest of the levels in fighter or vigilante after that.
J
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This is a great build! The only thing that doesn't work at level 1 is Defender of the Society, as it requires a level in fighter before you can take it.
Defender of the Society appears in two sources.
- Faction Guide DOES require you to be a fighter- Shattered Star Player’s Guide DOES NOT require you to be a fighter.
Note that the SS version is not PFS legal, but other than that it’s up to your GM (like everything else).
Not sure if it'd be best to take the rest of the levels in fighter or vigilante after that.
I personally think the Gray Maiden is a better fighter than a base fighter. The two things a fighter gets that a Gray Maiden doesn’t are a bonus feat at 1st level and - most importantly- Weapon Training. (And Bravery, but… eh.) The Gray Maiden gets more skill points, social talents, and vigilante talents. Vigilante talents are generally better than a feat (some roll two feats into one), and you can always take a fighter bonus feat as a vigilante talent as many times as you want.
To me, the only mechanical reason to pick the fighter is if you particularly value Weapon Training.
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I personally think the Gray Maiden is a better fighter than a base fighter. The two things a fighter gets that a Gray Maiden doesn’t are a bonus feat at 1st level and - most importantly- Weapon Training. (And Bravery, but… eh.) The Gray Maiden gets more skill points, social talents, and vigilante talents. Vigilante talents are generally better than a feat (some roll two feats into one), and you can always take a fighter bonus feat as a vigilante talent as many times as you want.
To me, the only mechanical reason to pick the fighter is if you particularly value Weapon Training.
A fighter also gets tower shield proficiency, whereas the Maiden doesn't (unless I am missing something?)
And a Fighter has more hit points (or do people assume that Avengers get d10 HD to go with their good BAB?)
Is the tower shield that amazingly good?
Is the tower shield that amazingly good?
It depends. Other shields grant +1 or +2 to AC, tower shield grant +4, and can give you total cover if you choose. There are downsides, such as getting a -2 to attack, limits on the dex bonus your armor has, etc. You can invest feats (or even an archetype) into reducing or eliminating the drawbacks.
J
But, tower shield proficiency is a feat. So the fighter would probably be better off to receive another bonus feat at 1st level. I played a D&D 3.5 fighter and a Pathfinder 1e fighter. Neither one ever used a tower shield. Not even once. So for me, a wasted ability. And for a class feature; kind of a poor one.
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I personally think the Gray Maiden is a better fighter than a base fighter. The two things a fighter gets that a Gray Maiden doesn’t are a bonus feat at 1st level and - most importantly- Weapon Training. (And Bravery, but… eh.) The Gray Maiden gets more skill points, social talents, and vigilante talents. Vigilante talents are generally better than a feat (some roll two feats into one), and you can always take a fighter bonus feat as a vigilante talent as many times as you want.
To me, the only mechanical reason to pick the fighter is if you particularly value Weapon Training.
A fighter also gets tower shield proficiency, whereas the Maiden doesn't (unless I am missing something?)
And a Fighter has more hit points (or do people assume that Avengers get d10 HD to go with their good BAB?)
This are both true statements. Forgot about the extra 1 HP/level (average) of the fighter.
As for the proficiency: the point of this challenge was "what's the highest AC you can get at level one?" You don't have to be proficient with a tower shield to get the AC bonus from it. But you do take the larger negative to attack rolls and checks involving movement if you aren't proficient.
Sorry, bit of a derail there. If maximum AC at 1st level is what you’re going for, then the tower shield seems like an option.
At 1st level you are usually limited by gold. So your theoretical max very much depends on your assumption of wealth. If you can only afford a chain shirt then Dex is ha huge part of your AC. If you can afford full plate, not so much.
How much you rely on Dex determines if a tower shield us a good option for you. A tower shield has a max Dex bonus of +2, so someone with an 18 Dex has the same AC with a hvy shield as with a tower shield.
You can get 1 point better AC with scale and a tower shield, than with a chainshirt and heavy shield. And, it’s a good bit cheaper. That minus 2 to hit though. Ugh! :)
The highest combo I can find is Kasatha fighter wearing scale mail and using a tower shield. 14 dex. Defender of the society trait. Dodge and shield focus as feats.
Base 10, +5 armor, +5 shield, +2 dex, +1 trait, +3 dodge. Total 26