Bonded object and owner death clrification?

[Braininthejar]

A wizard gets a bonded object as a class feature. He enchants it as a wand.

The wizard then dies. The object loses its bonded object abilities.

But is it still a wand?

By RAW, I'm 99% sure it shouldn't be.

But the Way of the Wicked official module lists such a wand as loot on a wizard's entry, even going as far as to list its remaining monetary value.

So, which is it?

[MrCharisma]

Why wouldn't it be?

Bonded Object lets you craft items without the feat, but you're still spending money and time creating an item.

[zza ni]

MrCharisma wrote:

Why wouldn't it be?

Bonded Object lets you craft items without the feat, but you're still spending money and time creating an item.

he spend the money so he can use it , but he never spent the feat so others can't

also it's right there in the class ability:

"..The magic properties of a bonded object, including any magic abilities added to the object, only function for the wizard who owns it. If a bonded object's owner dies, or the item is replaced, the object reverts to being an ordinary masterwork item of the appropriate type..."

maybe in 'way of the wicked' the writer used the npc wealth to buy the wand first then bonded it as a bonded item. if the item was magical before turning into a bonded item it stay magical after the character's death.

[Mysterious Stranger]

If a bonded object is damaged, it is restored to full hit points the next time the wizard prepares his spells. If the object of an arcane bond is lost or destroyed, it can be replaced after 1 week in a special ritual that costs 200 gp per wizard level plus the cost of the masterwork item. This ritual takes 8 hours to complete. Items replaced in this way do not possess any of the additional enchantments of the previous bonded item. A wizard can designate an existing magic item as his bonded item. This functions in the same way as replacing a lost or destroyed item except that the new magic item retains its abilities while gaining the benefits and drawbacks of becoming a bonded item.

The rules make it clear you can make an existing item your bonded item. If you die the item retains its original abilities and loses anything you added. If the wizard finds an item that they cannot create yet they can simply spend 200 gp and make that item their bonded item. That is what presumably happened in the adventure path. In many cases using an existing item will be much cheaper than crafting your own. A wand with a 2nd level spell costs 2,250 gp to create, many characters may simply not have enough cash to create a powerful bonded weapon.

[Azothath]

Way of the Wicked series by Fire Mountain Games.

Wands have a formula to calculate cost, $750*SplLvl*CL @ [50]chg, as an item that became a BO that still holds true but as a crafted BO it'll be half.

I'd read the scenario carefully. IF it is listed as treasure assume it was a magic item that became a Bonded Object, otherwise it's a masterwork stick. Grab the wizard's spellbook and let the other guy have the pretty stick. It'll be highly amusing watching the rogue try to UMD it...

you might try the third party forum.

[MrCharisma]

zza ni wrote:

MrCharisma wrote:

Why wouldn't it be?

Bonded Object lets you craft items without the feat, but you're still spending money and time creating an item.

he spend the money so he can use it , but he never spent the feat so others can't

also it's right there in the class ability:

"..The magic properties of a bonded object, including any magic abilities added to the object, only function for the wizard who owns it. If a bonded object's owner dies, or the item is replaced, the object reverts to being an ordinary masterwork item of the appropriate type..."

maybe in 'way of the wicked' the writer used the npc wealth to buy the wand first then bonded it as a bonded item. if the item was magical before turning into a bonded item it stay magical after the character's death.

Oh good call.

[Melkiador]

I never really understood why we have that limitation, anyway. It's not like it's super efficient to sell off your old bonded objects. Sure you skip the feat prerequisite, but all other costs are the same and you also have to cover the 200G per level for replacing your bonded object.

[Chell Raighn]

Melkiador wrote:

I never really understood why we have that limitation, anyway. It's not like it's super efficient to sell off your old bonded objects. Sure you skip the feat prerequisite, but all other costs are the same and you also have to cover the 200G per level for replacing your bonded object.

The restriction could potentially be exploited worse than if they had just not put it in… a particularly devious wizard might pawn off their bonded object as a powerful magic item, only for it to revert to being completely non-magical afterwards… they then may have an underling attempt to buy or even “steal” the item back… in the process revealing the item in the shop to be a worthless non-magical item. If the ruse is done right they will get their bonded object back and then they can pull this con again at another magic item shop at a later date… of course this con may be too dangerous to repeat at the same shop… so eventually they will risk being caught or have to actually change their bonded object…

[Mysterious Stranger]

The reason is so that the wizard cannot equip the rest of the party without taking item creation feats. There is no reason the wizard's bonded item has to be the same type of item every time. This would allow the wizard to create amulets, rings, and weapons for every member of the party at half cost + 200 gp, while still taking other feats. Normally in order to be able to create a magic item you are giving up a feat. Without this rule Wizards can create items and still take other feats. Spending an extra 200 gp for each instead of a feat too good.

[Chell Raighn]

Mysterious Stranger wrote:

Without this rule Wizards can create items and still take other feats. Spending an extra 200 gp for each instead of a feat too good.

Its 200GP PER LEVEL… at level 1 its a great deal, but it quickly becomes a pretty heafty tax after just a few levels.

[Melkiador]

Yeah, 200 per level is not cheap. But also you have be separated from the old item for a full week before you can do the 8 hour ritual to start a new one. That’s very inconvenient since it’s hard to cast spells without it.

It’s just too hard to abuse for it to be worth including that limitation.

[Mysterious Stranger]

At 12th level the cost would be 2,400 gp. A ring of protection +4 costs 16,000 gold to craft that brings the cost up to 18,400. That means instead costing 50% to craft the ring it costs 57.5%. That still puts you ahead of the game. Since the wizard did not have to spend any feats he can pick up other feats instead. How much would you pay for 5 extra feats?

As to it not being able to be abused there is a whole thread about GM’s not allowing crafting where a lot of people are saying that if the GM does not allow players enough time to craft they are being unfair to the players. Another way it can be abused is with a crafting cohort. Now instead of picking crafting feats the cohort picks up feats to boost his efficiency in crafting. Now the crafting cohort has skill focus spell craft, magical aptitude and arcane builder and can really crank out the items. The PC wizard can also pick up those.

This can easily be abused.

[Azothath]

commentary

since a Bonded Object(BObj) is a standard option for Wizards I should think the knowledge check would be a rather low DC. That mechanically makes it hard to dupe others by selling your BObj and then retrieving it at a lower cost claiming the new user broke it. That Con isn't practical in Game terms.

In PFS/Org Play where there was no crafting (wizards got Spell Focus(school) instead of Scribe Scroll) wizards could still do their BObjs at half price. So I'm not sure limiting crafting in general will affect the specific case of a wizard and his BObj. A Home GM would have to give the player an equivalent option if they banned crafting BObjs.

Generally I always chose a BObj Amulet and went with an Aegis of Recovery and then Amulet of Spell Mastery. It's perfectly reasonable to pay the other half on your BObj and upgrade it to a standard magic item rather than lose half the cost permanently.

Wands are pretty cost effective and using them as a BObj really makes that better. Still, with a wand it'll have to be in hand for all your spellcasting and that may prove inconvenient. "... while staves, wands, and weapons must be wielded." The only hedge I can think of offhand is a prehensile tail or hair and "wielding" is going to be key (it's a "no" for everything I've read{tiefling, kobold, vanara, monkey goblin, ganzi, witch's hair...}, an Alchemist's Tentacle or Necrograft Arm should work but your GM will have to approve it. Magic Jaring a Marilith is going to be easier...).
With this I could see a wizard buying a Wand of ______ and adding Persistent(+2) or Dazing(+3) to it via their Bonded Object paying only half for the upgrade. The base wand is still going to cost a shiny penny or two.