A Slayer and an Inquisitor (With the right combination of archetypes) gets both Sneak Attack and Studied Target.
If you have sneak attack, when you attempt a combat maneuver check against a creature that you are flanking or that is denied its Dexterity bonus to AC against your attack, you gain a bonus on the combat maneuver check that’s equal to the number of sneak attack dice you roll.
If you have the studied combat class feature, you can use studied strike on a combat maneuver check. When you do so, you gain a bonus on the combat maneuver check equal to your number of studied strike dice.
Can either the Slayer or Inquisitor benefit from both bonuses at the same time when performing a combat maneuver?
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Surprise Maneuver is referring the the Investigator's "Studied COMBAT" and "Studied STRIKE" class features, not the Slayer's "Studied TARGET" class feature.
Source
Advanced Class Guide pg. 157
Prerequisites: Combat Expertise; sneak attack +3d6 or studied strike +3d6.
Benefit: If you have sneak attack, when you attempt a combat maneuver check against a creature that you are flanking or that is denied its Dexterity bonus to AC against your attack, you gain a bonus on the combat maneuver check that’s equal to the number of sneak attack dice you roll.
If you have the studied combat class feature, you can use studied strike on a combat maneuver check. When you do so, you gain a bonus on the combat maneuver check equal to your number of studied strike dice. Source
Advanced Class Guide pg. 30
Studied Combat (Ex): With a keen eye and calculating mind, an investigator can assess the mettle of his opponent to take advantage of gaps in talent and training. At 4th level, an investigator can use a move action to study a single enemy that he can see. Upon doing so, he adds 1/2 his investigator level as an insight bonus on melee attack rolls and as a bonus on damage rolls against the creature. This effect lasts for a number of rounds equal to his Intelligence modifier (minimum 1) or until he deals damage with a studied strike, whichever comes first. The bonus on damage rolls is precision damage, and is not multiplied on a critical hit.
An investigator can only have one target of studied combat at a time, and once a creature has become the target of an investigator’s studied combat, he cannot become the target of the same investigator’s studied combat again for 24 hours unless the investigator expends one use of inspiration when taking the move action to use this ability.
Studied Strike (Ex): At 4th level, an investigator can choose to make a studied strike against the target of his studied combat as a free action, upon successfully hitting his studied target with a melee attack, to deal additional damage. The damage is 1d6 at 4th level, and increases by 1d6 for every 2 levels thereafter (to a maximum of 9d6 at 20th level). The damage of studied strike is precision damage and is not multiplied on a critical hit; creatures that are immune to sneak attacks are also immune to studied strike.
If the investigator’s attack used a weapon that deals nonlethal damage (like a sap, whip, or an unarmed strike), he may choose to have the additional damage from studied strike be nonlethal damage instead of lethal damage. If the investigator chose to make an attack with a lethal weapon instead deal nonlethal damage (with the usual –4 penalty), the studied strike damage may also deal nonlethal damage.
The investigator must be able to see the target well enough to pick out a vital spot and must be able to reach such a spot. An investigator cannot use studied strike against a creature with concealment.
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If you did somehow get both Sneak Attack and Studied Combat/Strike on a character, the bonuses from the feat probably shouldn't stack as they are untyped bonuses from the same source, but I wouldn't be surprised to see some table variation on this since you probably had to nerf one bonus to get the other at all (by multiclassing)...
I disagree with the Idea that studied combat and sneak attack are the same source. Studied Combat is finding the weaknesses of an individual. It’s about analyzing the targets combat style and finding a weakness. Once the weakness is found the character can exploit that weakness no matter what the defender does. Sneak attack is taking advantage of a person not able to defend themselves. One requires action on the part of the character making the attack, the other on the actions of the target. The only thing they share is that both are considered precision damage.
The source is the feat (actually feats in general), regardless of the conditions for that bonus. Example being even if you have a Weapon Focus and martial mastery, you wield a weapon in two different weapon groups, and then pick up weapon focus for another weapon in the second weapon group of your weapon, these bonuses don't stack, where as the bonus listed from Greater Weapon Focus despite being the same bonus does stack with regular Weapon Focus because the feat says it does.
On one hand, I'd say multiclassing is and should be discouraged so I wouldn't personally care about the "sacking rogue levels for investigator levels means same total bonus argument" but I obviously understand it. The bigger no for me comes from gestalt where you can get double the bonus because you aren't sacking levels in one for the other.
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Yeah, there's a lot of 'gray' area here: I'm seeing the feat as potentially granting two separate untyped bonuses that shouldn't stack, but you could just as easily see it as the feat granting one untyped bonus equal to the sum of the two parts (non-specified 'order of operations' strikes again!).
Honestly, I don't think this specific case matters too much:
The OP misread the class features required and thought you could get both while single-classed, but that appears to be a non-starter.
The Gestalt rules (which are more what you might call 'guidelines') are technically third party product (WotC published them for D&D3.x) so any interaction there isn't really a 'rules' concern.
Offhand, the easiest way I see to 'abuse' this combo would be 'Investigator 4+' + 'Rogue 1' + 'Accomplished Sneak Attacker' as many times as you can...
They probably shouldn't stack tbh, but I say that's horse feathers. I'd let them stack.
Offhand, the easiest way I see to 'abuse' this combo would be 'Investigator 4+' + 'Rogue 1' + 'Accomplished Sneak Attacker' as many times as you can...
To be clear, you can't take accomplished sneak attacker more than once. I'm not sure if you were implying that though.
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Offhand, the easiest way I see to 'abuse' this combo would be 'Investigator 4+' + 'Rogue 1' + 'Accomplished Sneak Attacker' as many times as you can...To be clear, you can't take accomplished sneak attacker more than once. I'm not sure if you were implying that though.
Could have sworn you could: Should have double-checked that...
They probably shouldn't stack tbh, but I say that's horse feathers. I'd let them stack.I'd let 'em stack too. Then I'd make a bunch of foes for the PCs that do nothing but exploit this loophole.
Exactly. Anything the PC's can do, the NPC's can do as well.
Exactly. Anything the PC's can do, the NPC's can do as well.They probably shouldn't stack tbh, but I say that's horse feathers. I'd let them stack.I'd let 'em stack too. Then I'd make a bunch of foes for the PCs that do nothing but exploit this loophole.
More importantly anything the PCs can do, the NPCs can do better… unlike PCs an NPC can hyper specialize to the point that they are completely useless outside of their specialized function since they won’t ever be used outside of their ideal circumstances.
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Honestly, there's no real 'loophole' here: Even if you allow the stacking, you're still no better than a single-classed rogue would be and probably a little worse given that you are combining two 3/4 BAB classes.
The one issue that probably requires a GM's ruling is that this feat allows you to 'use studied strike on a combat maneuver check' and 'using' Studied Strike implies that it ends your Studied Strike as normal but technically it wouldn't as this buff actually lasts 'until he deals damage with a studied strike'.
Just because something is unusual does not make it a loop hole or exploit. Allowing them to stack is not abusive in anyway. All it does is allow a multiclassed character that is unlikely to ever exist to get the same bonus as a single classed character. Considering how bad multiclasssing is in Pathfinder punishing a character for doing so is over kill.
As to a gestalt game there are also a lot of things that can be done with those rules that make this look incredibly weak. When you have a scaled fist monk/paladin doing flurry of smite and adding CHA to hit and 20l to damage on 8 hits, an extra +10 on a ¾ BAB class does not seem like it is that powerful.