RSS Facebook Twitter Email
Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder Second Edition / Rules Discussion

5 Feet Speed; Am I doing this right?

Rules Discussion

Search Thread

Search this Thread:

If I have 18 strength, a base speed of 25 feet, and happen to be wearing bastion plate while carrying a fortress shield, what is my modified speed?

Is it 5 feet? What are some ways to get around this limitation?

Only the worst penalty applies if you have multiple penalties. So the tower shield doesn't slow you down further.

There are untyped penalties which all stack with each other (MAP and the range-increment penalty are two prominent examples), and both shields' and armors' speed penalties are untyped as far as I can tell. So yeah, 5ft.

Unburdened Iron would raise you to 10ft (+10 total feet from penalty reductions, but dwarf base speed is 20ft, so it's only a +5ft difference), or 15ft if you take it via Adopted Ancestry. Beyond that, there are a variety of bonuses to your speeds that you can acquire to compensate for the penalty. Elves start with 30ft base speed (+5ft "untyped"); they (or half-elves) can take Nimble Elf for another +5ft "untyped;" and the Fleet general feat gives another +5ft "untyped." Trick Magic Item and the Trained rank in Arcana or Nature is pretty low investment, and in conjunction with a Wand of Longstrider (2nd-level), gets you an easy +10ft status bonus. Boots of Speed or Boots of Bounding can give you a +5ft item bonus, and Greater Boots of Bounding give you a +10ft bonus.
egindar wrote:
There are untyped penalties which all stack with each other (MAP and the range-increment penalty are two prominent examples), and both shields' and armors' speed penalties are untyped as far as I can tell. So yeah, 5ft.

That rule is in the contexts of checks CRB p444. Movement rate is not a check. Whereas the general definition doesn't say that CRB p12. So it is arguable, depending on how you read it.

I think for untyped movement penalties to not stack, the line "Likewise, you use only the worst penalty of each type." would have to be treating untyped penalties as a type in themselves, which is true in a sense but antithetical to the concept of an untyped penalty.

I don't see it as antithetical. You are bringing in concepts from other games which don't exist here. I am perfectly Ok with the way you read it, and it is probably the majority interpretation. Perhaps I'm just being a bit annoyed at the way you get such poor correspondance between different rules sections and that creates missunderstandings and gaps like this.
3 people marked this as a favorite.

The rules are: "Bonuses and penalties apply to checks and certain statistics. There are several types of bonuses and penalties. If you have more than one bonus of the same type, you use only the highest bonus. Likewise, you use only the worst penalty of each type."

For untyped penalties not to stack, they need to have the same type. I don't think untyped qualifies as a type (even if there's no definite RAW answer on that).
And RAI I think the example of Mutagens, that are all giving untyped penalties, hints at the proper answer. Otherwise, anyone with heavy armor would see reduced penalties from Stone Body Mutagen.

Sorry, Gortle, I think you're wrong on this one.

Also, could people wait for the 27th before bringing rules discussion about the Treasure Vault?
6 people marked this as a favorite.

Reinforced by Unburdened Iron having the line:

Quote:
If your Speed is taking multiple penalties, pick only one penalty to reduce.
Horizon Hunters

I agree it would stack. The question now is why would you subject yourself to this? Entrench does nothing when you have a shield with a +3 circumstance bonus to all attacks, so you might as well go with Full Plate instead. (Or since you're using Treasure Vault items, the O-yoroi). Then the Fortress Shield slows you an additional 5 ft over the tower shield, all for an extra +1 to AC when you Raise your Shield. I suggest getting a Sapling Shield so that you can use it as a tower shield when needed, but can also shrink it to a buckler when you need to travel or move quickly.

Ever see BOFURI: i don't WANT to GET HURT so i'll MAX OUT my DEFENSE., the anime?

I'm trying to make a Pathfinderized version version of the lead character, Maple, who was as laughably tough as she was slow. She was also known for getting around her extreme limitations in creative ways, like riding upon large companion creatures or using magic items for alternative forms of mobility.

EDIT: I get that the math is tight in this game, and that I won't be able to min/max in the way a broken anime game allows, but I still hope to capture the spirit of the character by being real slow, then completely bypassing said limitation.

You could get an animal companion mount and use its speed to move around the battlefield. If you can pick up first level arcane or occult spell casting, you can get Fleet Step for a +30 speed for one minute. You can also get Boots of Blasting to jump to where you need to be on the battlefield.
Allisar the Giantess wrote:

Ever see BOFURI: i don't WANT to GET HURT so i'll MAX OUT my DEFENSE., the anime?

I'm trying to make a Pathfinderized version version of the lead character, Maple, who was as laughably tough as she was slow. She was also known for getting around her extreme limitations in creative ways, like riding upon large companion creatures or using magic items for alternative forms of mobility.

EDIT: I get that the math is tight in this game, and that I won't be able to min/max in the way a broken anime game allows, but I still hope to capture the spirit of the character by being real slow, then completely bypassing said limitation.

You won't be untouchable, but being a heavily-armored champion with a fortress shield is going to do a lot for you AC-wise. That's a full 6 points of AC (1 from heavy armor, 2 from champion proficiency past 7th level, 3 from fortress shield) over a light- or medium-armored martial. If an enemy has 70% accuracy against an ally, they'll have 40% accuracy against you, which actually halves the expected damage you'll take from that Strike due to the +/-10 on degrees of success.

I think a mount is not the way to go, as the mount can still be targeted even if you stack your AC very high. The Cavalier has the Defend Mount feat which lets you redirect an attack targeting your mount at you instead, but it's a reaction, so you won't be able to use it more than once per round.

At higher levels you could use a Broom of Flying to get around the speed issue - you could even hover <5ft off the ground so that you don't fall prone if you don't use the Fly action every round. There might be other items/options I'm missing.
egindar wrote:
At higher levels you could use a Broom of Flying to get around the speed issue - you could even hover <5ft off the ground so that you don't fall prone if you don't use the Fly action every round. There might be other items/options I'm missing.

Oh, that is juicy! Fear the hover tank! XD

You have to hold the Broom with one hand...
Pixel Popper wrote:
You have to hold the Broom with one hand...

Can you attack with tower shields and fortress shields? If so, I'll just add some weapon components to it. If not, I'll just have to find a way to get an extra hand for the broom! XD

Allisar the Giantess wrote:
Pixel Popper wrote:
You have to hold the Broom with one hand...
Can you attack with tower shields and fortress shields? If so, I'll just add some weapon components to it. If not, I'll just have to find a way to get an extra hand for the broom! XD

Yes, you can Shield Bash. And look at Shield Boss and Shield Spike.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder Second Edition / Rules Discussion / 5 Feet Speed; Am I doing this right? All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in Rules Discussion