Wall of Water in action


Rules Discussion


So, have been playing a Wizard a bit - first time in PF2e and having a grand time. Spell selection is a challenge of course, but also very entertaining. Now that I have 3rd level spells I've picked up Wall of Water...my intention is to use it as an area control spell (naturally) but I'm not sure how it really operates and impacts movement.

Key rules (nethys 2e)
1) "The wall stays upright in a straight line that is 60 feet long, 10 feet high, and 5 feet thick"
>> No ring option and no zigzags, fine, and it's 5' thick
>> No restrictions on placement (unlike walls of stone/force) so if it crosses through some creatures squares as it appears that seems to be no problem.

2) "A creature traversing the wall of water needs to Swim through. The rules of aquatic combat apply to creatures traversing the wall of water, targeting creatures within the wall, or passing through the wall."
>> Traversing requires Swim - what does this mean for movement on a grid? Stride up to the wall, Swim through the wall, Stride away seems right in concept, but I'm fuzzy on the details.

a) Does the last square of the first Stride stop right before the wall or does it end "in" the wall? I feel like the first makes more sense

b) If the stride stops just before the wall, then the Swim roll from that "not in the water" position would be:
Success - move 5' (now in the wall)...can you just stride away from there? or does it take another success to exit?
Crit success - move 10' (now out of the wall on the other side) is a win either way work of course.
Failure - Still outside, and adjacent to, the wall (don't enter)

c) If the stride stops "in" the wall, then the swim roll would be: Success to exit, Crit Success to exit, Failure would leave you stuck in the wall.

d) Diving through the wall would still be modeled with a Swim roll (basically 'b' above), yes? Guarantee someone will ask.

e) How does this work for Large, Huge, Gargantuan creatures?

What is the Swim DC? There is an earlier thread that that did not come to a conclusion.
If the wall is meant to be calm and smooth, like an aquarium, then I'd guess a lower DC, whatever is the usual for swimming. For anyone with Athletics that would mean they get wet, and have to take an extra action, but no real challenge.
If the wall is meant to be swirling with strong hidden currents, caused by the arcane force (or whatever), then that would feel like using Spellcaster DC.


1) Seems right to me. I also don't see any restrictions about putting the wall across creatures or other obstacles.

2) I think the movement rules in the core rules are that you have to use a new action for different movement types. I vaguely remember someone mentioning that there is an optional ruling to use instead for cases where that is annoying. I don't remember the citation off-hand though. I'm sure someone else will bring it up.

As for when to switch movement types, I think it is best to use the movement type for the square that you are entering. Which is why you can't Step into a square of difficult terrain, but you can Step out of one. Similarly, you would use your land speed for squares up to the one adjacent to the wall of water, then you would use swim speed to move into the square of the wall. Then use land speed to leave the square.

I'm not sure whether you would roll the swim check before entering the wall or before leaving it. I'm not sure that it really matters - probably only if you fail, and probably only if people are trying to attack you while you do it.

d) Yes, I would still have the player rolling with the rules for movement no matter how they want to describe the actions.

e) Not sure about larger creature sizes. I would probably base my ruling on the rules for larger creature sizes and difficult terrain. If any part of their footprint goes through the wall, then they are affected by the wall. They still have to make a swim check, but I would only require one check no matter how many squares their footprint has.

3) Indeed. We did not come to a conclusion. And since the relevant rules haven't been updated since then, I don't think we could come to a conclusion now either.

Dark Archive

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I love seeing one of my old threads being brought up again!

To breithauptclan's point for 2)
From the GMG section on Splitting and Combining Movement:
"The different types of actions representing movement are split up for convenience of understanding how the rules work with a creature’s actions. However, you can end up in odd situations, such as when a creature wants to jump vertically to get something and needs to move just a bit to get in range, then Leap, then continue moving. This can end up feeling like they’re losing a lot of their movement to make this happen. At your discretion, you can allow the PCs to essentially combine these into one fluid movement as a 2-action activity: moving into range for a Leap, then Leaping, then using the rest of their Speed.

This typically works only for chaining types of movement together. Doing something like Interacting to open a door or making a Strike usually arrests movement long enough that doing so in the middle of movement isn’t practical."


Ah yes. there it is. Thanks.

And if the wall of water is meant to be a barrier it should probably do that in one of two ways.

1) requiring separate actions to change movement types.
2) using the spellcaster's Spell DC for the swim check.

Or both.

But if it has a DC 10 check and doesn't require additional actions to pass through, it really isn't much of a barrier.

Dark Archive

fwiw, even with combining actions you're still effectively burning an action to swim 5ft even with a low DC.
And even a relatively low DC can be pretty hard for a dex or caster combatant who doesn't have training in athletics.

Aquatic Combat lists a DC of 15 to swim underwater or 13 if it's calm water. I'd probably go with one of those.


breithauptclan wrote:
1) Seems right to me. I also don't see any restrictions about putting the wall across creatures or other obstacles.

Ok - so this one is solved

breithauptclan wrote:

2) I think the movement rules in the core rules are that you have to use a new action for different movement types...

As for when to switch movement types, I think it is best to use the movement type for the square that you are entering. ... use your land speed for squares up to the one adjacent to the wall of water, then you would use swim speed to move into the square of the wall. Then use land speed to leave the square.

That seems easy to explain and is straightforward to implement, so probably is RAI. Think I agree.

breithauptclan wrote:
I'm not sure whether you would roll the swim check before entering the wall or before leaving it. I'm not sure that it really matters - probably only if you fail, and probably only if people are trying to attack you while you do it.

Not sure on this either. Although maybe the roll should be after entering? Easy to jump in the pool, but walking across the bottom is fairly hard. Only 5 feet but probably really weird and disorienting. I could imagine someone pushing in, and then thrashing around a bit trying to keep footing and make progress, then water tension on the exit.

Failure impact is probably situational. Spellcasters, usually the non-athletes of Golarion, are most likely to fail. Then they cannot cast spells, have to waste actions trying again, and might need to be pulled out by someone else. OTOH, some martials might prefer to *stay* in the wall for the aquatic combat benefits.

breithauptclan wrote:
d) Yes, I would still have the player rolling with the rules for movement no matter how they want to describe the actions.

Ok - solved

breithauptclan wrote:
e) Not sure about larger creature sizes. I would probably base my ruling on the rules for larger creature sizes and difficult terrain. If any part of their footprint goes through the wall, then they are affected by the wall. They still have to make a swim check, but I would only require one check no matter how many squares their footprint has.

Ok - solved. Also was thinking that there are a few creatures that could jump over a 10' water wall (giants), or wade through it but that's probably easily modeled as a Stride, Jump... or Stride, Step... so the rule holds up.

breithauptclan wrote:
3) Indeed. We did not come to a conclusion. And since the relevant rules haven't been updated since then, I don't think we could come to a conclusion now either.

Nuts. Although it may not matter a whole lot. Only in the edge case of a non-athletic caster I suspect.

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