Sturdy Shields for Other Shield Types

[CaffeinatedNinja]

First of all, loved the treasure vault preview. Can't wait until my subscription copy arrives!

I also loved the addition of new shields meant for blocking.

Fortress Shield, Harnessed Shield, Heavy Rondache, Salvo Shield, Meteor Shield, Sword Stealer's Shield. Awesome!!!

But, they are just base shields. So someone using them who wants to block is only going to do so for a few levels until the first sturdy shield comes online.

This has been an issue since the CRB, but with all these new shields that are designed for blocking (Heavy Rondache even says it is reinforced to block more and has extra hp!) not having sturdy shields for them is weird.

Look, I know it takes page space. How about you just print a chart saying "Minor Sturdy shield. Here are the stats for each subtype
Meteor Shield, x hardness, x HP/BT
Salvo Shield, x hardness, x HP/BT

Then do the same for lesser, etc.

This is needed for these shields to scale.

Love your work, keep it coming, thanks!

[aobst128]

Yep. Sturdy shield is still ubiquitous if you plan to shield block. Base shields and special material shields are still left out. Bummer. The massive 5 bulk shield that gives a +3 to AC will break in one hit later on because there's no special version of it with better stats. Sturdy should have been a rune or something that you can apply to base shields.

[egindar]

I can still see a solid niche for the likes of fortress shield and meteor shield as shields you raise for AC, possibly use for other purposes, and don't block with. Fortress shield offering +3 AC for one action is solid on its own, even if I prefer my shield builds to be able to block.

But yeah, I see the likes of hide shield, salvo shield, and swordstealer shield, where they trade hardness against most attacks for hardness against one kind of attack, or the rondache that trades a point of AC for more HP, and I wonder if they had sturdy versions that got cut for space or something.

We do have sturdy bucklers in the sapling shield, and sturdy wooden shields in LOGB's wovenwood shield, at least.

[25speedforseaweedleshy]

very easy to figure out how hardness should increase with level

wovenwood and sturdy basically follow the same number growth

hp would be 8 times hardness bt 4 times

[Arachnofiend]

I suspect there is an attempt here to make shields that are good enough to value without shield block; it would invalidate normal steel shields if you could upgrade the hardness on the fortress shield since the vast majority of shield block builds are strength-based anyways.

[Gobhaggo]

Arachnofiend wrote:

I suspect there is an attempt here to make shields that are good enough to value without shield block; it would invalidate normal steel shields if you could upgrade the hardness on the fortress shield since the vast majority of shield block builds are strength-based anyways.

I dunno man, Dex-monks and casters would still prefer steel shields not to mention that fortress still has a -10 movement penalty.

A STR shield build that opts for a fortress would also have to consider not getting plate armour if they don;t want to have less than 20 speed, Not to mention that Greatshields don't have scaling options either.

[Arachnofiend]

Oh, I missed that the fortress shield has a speed penalty on it. Yeesh.

[YuriP]

This is already covered question about shields.

The theory is that in CRB playtest when equipments have no HP but dents the sturdy shields are just a bit stronger shield that can block one additional time due it's "extra dent". The difference of the sturdy and other specify shields wasn't so great than they are today. So take an specific shield would be a more fair trade-off than they currently are.

But since that final version of CRB removed the dent's mechanic and in favor of the old hardness+hp to items this also increase a lot the shield durability between sturdy ones and the rest of the shields.

IMO since the CRB release the shields requires a rune system. Something that put hardness and HP as "fundamental runes" and add some property shield runes or just upgrade the fundamental runes of specific shields. This is a completely revolution in how shield mechanics works but IMO it's required to prevent the currently big advantage of sturdy shield over all other shields.

I know that some people will say "but many specific shield aren't made to block (yet also there's many others that are made to block and have to low endurance for their levels) and some of these shields can fit some niches but I rarely see a player that want's another shield than sturdy usually they prefer the benefits of use 2 handed weapons or have a free hand instead.

Gobhaggo wrote:

Arachnofiend wrote:

I suspect there is an attempt here to make shields that are good enough to value without shield block; it would invalidate normal steel shields if you could upgrade the hardness on the fortress shield since the vast majority of shield block builds are strength-based anyways.

I dunno man, Dex-monks and casters would still prefer steel shields not to mention that fortress still has a -10 movement penalty.

A STR shield build that opts for a fortress would also have to consider not getting plate armour if they don;t want to have less than 20 speed, Not to mention that Greatshields don't have scaling options either.

IMO currently the best shield for monks without shield block are the tower shields. The action economy of Flurry of Blows fits well with the 2 actions required to take higher cover with the tower shields, also the speed reduction of -5 feets is well compensated by extra monk speed.

[25speedforseaweedleshy]

YuriP wrote:

This is already covered question about shields.

The theory is that in CRB playtest when equipments have no HP but dents the sturdy shields are just a bit stronger shield that can block one additional time due it's "extra dent". The difference of the sturdy and other specify shields wasn't so great than they are today. So take an specific shield would be a more fair trade-off than they currently are.

But since that final version of CRB removed the dent's mechanic and in favor of the old hardness+hp to items this also increase a lot the shield durability between sturdy ones and the rest of the shields.

IMO since the CRB release the shields requires a rune system. Something that put hardness and HP as "fundamental runes" and add some property shield runes or just upgrade the fundamental runes of specific shields. This is a completely revolution in how shield mechanics works but IMO it's required to prevent the currently big advantage of sturdy shield over all other shields.

I know that some people will say "but many specific shield aren't made to block (yet also there's many others that are made to block and have to low endurance for their levels) and some of these shields can fit some niches but I rarely see a player that want's another shield than sturdy usually they prefer the benefits of use 2 handed weapons or have a free hand instead.

Gobhaggo wrote:

Arachnofiend wrote:

I suspect there is an attempt here to make shields that are good enough to value without shield block; it would invalidate normal steel shields if you could upgrade the hardness on the fortress shield since the vast majority of shield block builds are strength-based anyways.

I dunno man, Dex-monks and casters would still prefer steel shields not to mention that fortress still has a -10 movement penalty.

A STR shield build that opts for a fortress would also have to consider not getting plate armour if they don;t want to have less than 20 speed, Not to mention that Greatshields don't have scaling

...

wovenwood and sturdy have 8 times hardness as hp

specific and precious shield mostly have 4 times hardness as hp

staff storing shield have 6 times hardness as hp though

the disadvantage are already in

level based hardness increase are not difficult to put into the rule at all

[CaffeinatedNinja]

Thinking about it, they may want to introduce more varied specific magic shield types with hardness and etc.

Which is fine, those are cool. But I also think they should just make a chart for sturdy shields as kind of the “baseline” better blocking shield.