Looking for feedback/critics on my planned brown fur arcanist that boost his familiar. Main role will be generalist caster/buffer. Party will consist of me, a str two-hander warpriest and an investigator who dipped 1 level in inspired blade.
We will be starting at level 2.
Ratfolk stats (20pts): STR:7-2, DEX:16+2, CON:14, WIS:10, INT:17+2, CHA:7
Traits: Reactionary / Transmuter of korada
Exploit - Feat
1 potent spell - Xtra exploit: familiar (mauler fox)
3 powerful change - Xtra exploit: dimensional slide
5 quick study - Wasp familiar (mauler; Feats: Mauler's Endurance, ?spell sponge?)
7 fiendish probiscus - Spell focus (transmutation)
9 Share Transformation - Spell penetration
11 School understanding > Foresight (prescience) - Quicken spell
13 metamagic: heigthen spell - Greater spell focus (transmutation)
15 greater metamagic: ? - Spell perfection (?disintegrate?)
17 counterspell - Mage tattoo (transmutation)?
19 arcane discovery: Forest's Blessing? - Knowledgeable spellcaster?
I'll probably be getting improved initiative on a training spiked glove worn in my off hand, also used to threaten.
I know I probably won't get to max level but I do enjoy the thought exercise
Thanks in advance for the help!
The arcanists exploits are kinda meh. The arcanist never really got a lot of support after it was made.
After you get the ones you want, I'd look into magawambi arcanist or pathfinder savant to raid the druids spell list or the clerics list for the self only buffs that you can now throw on party members.
The mauler battle form is also a polymorph effect so doesn’t stack with the brown fur polymorphs. That’s not entirely a reason to not mix them but it is a concern.
I personally prioritize quick study over potent spell, but you eventually get both anyway.
While your teammates may not like some polymorphs, the giant forms should be appreciated by any strength based character. And there are good options in fey form for any character. As long as people don’t lose any of their gear and just get stats and a couple extra abilities, they will be happy.
The arcanists exploits are kinda meh. The arcanist never really got a lot of support after it was made.
After you get the ones you want, I'd look into magawambi arcanist or pathfinder savant to raid the druids spell list or the clerics list for the self only buffs that you can now throw on party members.
Thx for answering!
Did look at a few prestige class for the back half of the leveling my main issue is that I often find that simply getting more feats (2 exploits are metamagic) + counterspell/fiendish probiscus is simply better than going for em.
Both needs two meh feats to spec into which seem like a waste (crafting feats arent useful for the type of campaign I'm playing) both offer more spell flexibility but I dont really feel like the wizard spell list is that lacking? and a lot of the features seems to be about giving prepared caster some spontaneous options which the arcanist already has.
The pathfinder has a lot of identification stuff that seem easily replicable by more standard spells or skills.
But I am very curious about how you would fit those classes into the build? which exploits/feats would you remove for those?, because I do agree that those classes seems more flavorful that just getting space for more feats, just uncertain about how useful they really would be.
The mauler battle form is also a polymorph effect so doesn’t stack with the brown fur polymorphs. That’s not entirely a reason to not mix them but it is a concern.
I personally prioritize quick study over potent spell, but you eventually get both anyway.
While your teammates may not like some polymorphs, the giant forms should be appreciated by any strength based character. And there are good options in fey form for any character. As long as people don’t lose any of their gear and just get stats and a couple extra abilities, they will be happy.
Thanks for answering!
I find that potent spell really helps making your spell counts when you only have a few at low level but yea both are strong options (also potent spell daze is a fun option at low lv)! I might switch dimensional slide and quick study tho I'll see how much I feel I need the movement boost in battle.
yea mauler really is only about more health with mauler's endurance and getting that strength bonus, the battle form is only useful before getting alter self after that its sewer troll time. I guess there is the bonus of having it being medium sized at all time which mean I can mount it has a ratfolk, mostly a out of combat rp thing tho..
imp stats + mauler's damage reduction also mean DR 5/magic silver which can be interesting, I guess most silver weapons would be magic at high enough level tho?.. Is DR 5/good magic better?
um any specific polymoprh forms youd recommend for the dex focused investigator?
also any spells other than disintegrate youd recommand for spell perfection? I kinda want something that synergise well with the rest of the build (foresight could be switched to admixture also).
During the siege of gallowspire on high mode high tier, our group pulled all the shennanigans (and still barely lived). My brown fur transmuter Turned the paladin into a tikbalang, which has pounce, Turned the Alchemist into charda for 5 attacks. and gave a mounted fighter longarm so they could poke someone through a magic barrier. Smite pounce full attack + smiting nartural attacks was... glorious brutal and or face palm induing depending.
In general I don't like metamagic as feats. They're buyable as rods, and the rods are BETTER than having the feat yourself. I took craft rod to kill two birds with one stone there but if you don't get time to craft that's not an option.
Spell penetration: if something is resistant cast on your familiar or party member
My favorites from the druid list were barkskin (since you're jacking your caster level for transmutation spells) since your familiar probably needs an amulet of migty fists , magic fang, lesser restoration (the cure light wounds of high level play) , restoration. For the pathfinder savant there's a spell that turns you into the incarnation of your deity.
I don't know your party composition so you may not need that level of versatility.
In general I don't like metamagic as feats.
Spell penetration: if something is resistant cast on your familiar or party member
I don't know your party composition so you may not need that level of versatility.
Reason I get metamagic is a big worry for cash since I know this gm is pretty stingy and doesnt really follow the recommendations. Also perfected spell seems extremely strong in how you can stack metamagic with it. I don't think you can stack metamagic rods? I might be wrong tho. Heighten spells seems really great for spontaneous casters lets spells like slow stay relevant and stacks with metamagic level increase.
I never played higher level casters I though every foes had SR at some point.. maybe I'll also change knowledgeable spellcaster then.
Party will consist of me, a str two-hander warpriest and an investigator who dipped 1 level in inspired blade. Warpriest wanna do some healing on top of being a tank dps and the investigator wanna be a support especially to give insane attack bonuses (thus the mauler familiar).
dunno what ud recommand with that info?
I'll check the druid spell list more closely, it seems to be the main reason to dip if I do. For the cleric spell list I don't want to step on the warpriest toes too much... Barksin and invoke deity are both summoner/witch spells so I think arcane scrolls for em should exist or lv2 and 4 wands? If thats how it works? could see myself just casting mirror image and letting the warpriest use invoke deity if he wants tho.
Reason I get metamagic is a big worry for cash since I know this gm is pretty stingy and doesnt really follow the recommendations.
In that case I'd try to squeeze in Craft Wondrous Items, and ask the Investigator to take Harvest Parts (so that you share the burden).
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A bit high-level (unless you stack familiar levels) but I'd keep an eye on the Mascot archetype at around lv 13. Your party makeup isn't perfectly suited for it as you'd normally want to steal the stats from a full BAB d10 class but it can work.
If your GM includes NPCs of higher CR/level around you it should be quite easy to emulate a really strong statblock. Something like a dragon would be perfect (d12, full BAB, all good saves, lots of skills) and usually means the familiar's HP gets way more bloated than if you'd just stick with Mauler's Endurance.
In that case I'd try to squeeze in Craft Wondrous Items.
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A bit high-level (unless you stack familiar levels) but I'd keep an eye on the Mascot archetype at around lv 13.
Ill consider wonderous but dont wanna ruin his planned economy too much. Already plan to craft some alchemical reagents to combine with spells also.
Oh good call on the mascot! I guess ill ask if its possible to switch archetype at lv 13 maybe have some retraining mechanic for it.. dont think its worth going straight for it atm.
Aside from that is there any feats or exploits ud switch for something else in the build?
I think you can skip Wasp Familiar entirely for the following reasons. It's barely a step up (in statistics) from the Fox or a Greensting Scorpion, and while the flight is noteworthy it will disappear whenever you cast a transmutation spell on it.
And on that note, choose a Greensting Scorpion instead of a Fox.
At level 7 you should take the Bloodline Development exploit and choose Arcane-Familiar. This will give your familiar an effective level of 8, but by spending an arcane point it will rise to effective level 14 for exactly one round. Which is enough time for a Mascot familiar to use its Heart of the Team feature. While it may take a full day to add a member to its team, the stat-cloning is instant.
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If you'd like more alternatives for your polymorphing I'd consider redoing your stat spread to get some more CHA. If you drop DEX to 14+2 you can raise CHA to 11, which means you'd qualify for Evolved Familiar if you buy one of those stat booster Ioun Stones for 8000.
As Evolved Familiar is a feat your familiar would not lose Pounce even if transformed (as long as its a quadruped form) which allows you to mix-n-match for better forms. Rather than always looking at Pounce forms.
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Opinions follow: do not take as gospel truth!
You have two melee classes as your party mates. I wouldn't bother with a melee familiar. Similarly, I would probably reallocate your stats. That Dex isn't going to boost your AC enough to help a lot. In particular, I would boost Cha a bit (see below).
There are a few offensive transmutation spells, but most of the ones you are going to want to cast are buffs. Boosting the caster level of those spells rarely has a benefit other than increasing the duration. Similarly boosting the DC (Spell Focus and Greater Spell Focus) is pointless on buff spells. There are some spells that do benefit; try to identify those before you start the campaign and estimate how likely you are to use them a lot before deciding how to spend your feats and traits. I would probably choose a different school (likely evocation) as my "offensive" casting and stick to buffing with transmutation.
Get those buffs out fast! If you want to be cheesy, take the traits Wayang Spellhunter and Magical Lineage, applying both to enlarge person. That way you can cast a quickened enlarge person as early as Level 6. (It usually takes 1 round - not a full-round - to cast it.)
It is very easy to run out of arcane reservoir points. In addition to the normal arcanist uses you are probably going to be using them on every transmutation buff. That's one reason I would change your stat distribution. A Charisma of just 14 doubles the number of times you can use Consume Spells. And later on a Pink and Green Sphere Ioun Stone will add another use. With a Charisma of 7 you will most likely never be able to use it more than once, even with a +6 INT/+6 CHA headband. Ditto if you eventually take Consume Magic Items.
If you do decide to take a familiar, I have two suggestions for you. If you absolutely want a melee attacker, consider the figment archetype. With the beast shape line they can do as much or more damage than a mauler, especially when it's cast by a Brown-Fur Transmuter. They are much squishier but - critically - they don't permanently die. If they are killed they come back for free the next morning. The second option is just a regular flying familiar used to deliver touch buff spells - not for offense. (I do like the mascot, but as a buffer the -2 CL limits the spells that can be delivered. And the ability to deliver any team member's spells isn't that useful in your group since only the warpriest could take advantage and most likely he will be using his standard actions in other ways.)
I think you can skip Wasp Familiar entirely for the following reasons. It's barely a step up
At level 7 you should take the Bloodline Development exploit and choose Arcane-Familiar. This will give your familiar an effective level of 8, but by spending an arcane point it will rise to effective level 14
As Evolved Familiar is a feat your familiar would not lose Pounce even if transformed (as long as its a quadruped form) which allows you to mix-n-match for better forms. Rather than always looking at Pounce forms.
Well the wasp gets imp stats so: DR5 + regen2, +3AC, +1str and a few spells has well has change shape. which is kinda fun. Maybe I should just go for a figment instead of mauler tho so I get evolutions points (and pounce) and dont have to worry about it dying (plus no more need to boost my charisma). imp stats become even more tempting if im not getting any str buff from mauler..
Umm that bloodline development thing seems like a weird logical leap, does getting two familiar feat really let you double one familiar effective level? wouldnt it just give you a 2nd familiar instead? Maybe I misunderstood something?
You have two melee classes as your party mates. I wouldn't bother with a melee familiar.There are a few offensive transmutation spells, but most of the ones you are going to want to cast are buffs. I would probably choose a different school (likely evocation) as my "offensive" casting and stick to buffing with transmutation.
It is very easy to run out of arcane reservoir points..
If you do decide to take a familiar, I have two suggestions for you. If you absolutely want a melee attacker, consider the...
Do want a melee familiar since my party will churn out so many melee buffs and my arcanist cant really benefit from em.. The investigator especially is going all in for melee support.
One reason I heard to increase transmutation DC is that it also boost the dc of polymorphed abilities. Plus the transmutation attacks seems fine? like slow/baneful polymorph/flesh to stone/disintegrate. its mostly to do a two bird one stone thing but maybe I am better off boosting evoc and getting magic trick fireball/ preferred spell fireball??
oh for the arcane points thing thats the reason why I picked fiendish probiscus, ill just absorb them back from my allies or my wasp familiar (which has imp stats) my gm gonna limit it to round per day instead of uses but its still a ton of points.
Yea I could see going for figment at the same time that I switch to wasp. to get pounce has Wonderstell said.
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Umm that bloodline development thing seems like a weird logical leap, does getting two familiar feat really let you double one familiar effective level? wouldnt it just give you a 2nd familiar instead? Maybe I misunderstood something?
It does not. That's explicit in the familiar arcanist exploit.
If the arcanist receives a familiar from another class, her levels of arcanist stack with the levels from that class when determining the familiar’s statistics and abilities (this ability does not stack with a familiar gained through the bloodline development exploit; she must choose one or the other).
One reason I heard to increase transmutation DC is that it also boost the dc of polymorphed abilities.
Not exactly sure what you mean. Can you give an example?
Plus the transmutation attacks seems fine? like slow/baneful polymorph/flesh to stone/disintegrate. its mostly to do a two bird one stone thing but maybe I am better off boosting evoc and getting magic trick fireball/ preferred spell fireball??
Fair enough, if you think you're going to use those spells a lot. Like I said... opinions :)
Yea I could see going for figment at the same time that I switch to wasp. to get pounce has Wonderstell said.
You can't actually take the pounce evolution on your familiar unless it is a quadruped. Which a wasp is not. I personally suggest buffing whatever familiar you choose with beast shape. Once you get beast shape II, you can get pounce as part of the transformation.
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One last thing that I would advise you to consider is action economy. It sounds like your group is planning a synergizing melee buff strategy. But. . . spending multiple rounds of standard actions with the party members trading buffs instead of dealing with enemies could be a recipe for disaster. I can't offer you direct advice because I don't know how your combats generally go. If your GM gives you prep time before each combat it will be awesome.
Well the wasp gets imp stats so: DR5 + regen2, +3AC, +1str and a few spells has well has change shape. which is kinda fun.
Your call. But the DR, Fast Healing, and Nat AC disappears if you use change shape/polymorph it. I was under the impression that you would transform it into a stronger form regularly.
Maybe I should just go for a figment instead of mauler tho so I get evolutions points (and pounce) and dont have to worry about it dying (plus no more need to boost my charisma). imp stats become even more tempting if im not getting any str buff from mauler..
Level 10 Arcanist with 14 Con, +hit points FCB, and Mauler's Endurance:
Figment: 16 HPMauler: 53 HP
The problem with Figment is that you're leaning into the issue rather than avoiding it. Now your familiar will take exactly one hit and then go *poof* for the rest of the day. It's a good archetype for a familiar running around giving out buff spells, but not so good if you're trying to make it a combatant.
Umm that bloodline development thing seems like a weird logical leap, does getting two familiar feat really let you double one familiar effective level? wouldnt it just give you a 2nd familiar instead? Maybe I misunderstood something?
Arcane Bloodline: Arcane Bond:
"At 1st level, you gain an arcane bond, as a wizard equal to your sorcerer level. Your sorcerer levels stack with any wizard levels you possess when determining the powers of your familiar or bonded object."Edit:
Wew, didn't notice the exploit-specific caveat preventing it from stacking. In that case, you'd need Skill Focus->Eldritch Heritage which would come online a level later. Requires 13 Cha as well.
Not exactly sure what you mean. Can you give an example?You can't actually take the pounce evolution on your familiar unless it is a quadruped. Which a wasp is not. I personally suggest buffing whatever familiar you choose with beast shape. Once you get beast shape II, you can get pounce as part of the transformation.
“The DC for any of these abilities equals your DC for the polymorph spell used to change you into that form.” I mean any of the abilities gained through polymorph use the spell DC, like breath weapons etc. Now I'm not sure how much forms gains those type of abilities or if its super rare tho. but it is a big reason why I try to stick to transmutation so curious about your opinion? also build is a bit inspired by this: https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder/comments/3rcce4/someone_asked_me_to_pos t_my_chronomancer_build_a
for focusing on evoc instead of transmutation would you go for the fireball route I talked about or something else?
Yea just read about eloidon pounce, might stick to mauler then, familiars can be revived within a week so might be able to arrange something with the gm if that happens.
Dunno if ill go beast shape or just go straight for monstrous physique, I lose pounce but might get more attacks/abilities.
Your call. But the DR, Fast Healing, and Nat AC disappears if you use change shape/polymorph it. I was under the impression that you would transform it into a stronger form regularly.The problem with Figment is that you're leaning into the issue rather than avoiding it.
In that case, you'd need Skill Focus->Eldritch Heritage which would come online a level later. Requires 13 Cha as well.
ah right you do lose the healing and the DR but I'm pretty sure you keep natural AC? Also imp has two feat slots instead of fox having only one. One feat will be for mauler's endurance but what would you recommend for the 2nd? Spell sponge?
Yea since pounce wont work unless I stick to fox (and then it wouldnt work with non-quadrupede polymorph) mean ill just stick to mauler wasp. I will look into retraining it into a mascot at lv13 tho!
I feel like that arcane pet lv boost trick is a case of RAW not following RAI which I feel iffy about. Plus if I was gm id prob remove the heart of the team boost has soon has the familiar lose the ability.
One last thing that I would advise you to consider is action economy. It sounds like your group is planning a synergizing melee buff strategy. But. . . spending multiple rounds of standard actions with the party members trading buffs instead of dealing with enemies could be a recipe for disaster. I can't offer you direct advice because I don't know how your combats generally go. If your GM gives you prep time before each combat it will be awesome.
well warpriest has fervor and wont actually be casting outside of it much unless we really get in trouble the investigator is doing some move action boosting attack kind of tactic on top of the standard casting so it prob wont be that bad.
I'm the only iffy one needed to cast buffs spells but honestly ill prob just cast lv1-2 buffs on em at later levels so I can quicken em and reserve the best form for my familiar. Less effective but dunno how much they enjoy constantly losing their whole build to a polymorph effect even if its stronger. Having a polymorph spell has my preferred spell (or for the Magical Lineage trait) could be interesting I just dunno which one to pick?
I feel like that arcane pet lv boost trick is a case of RAW not following RAI which I feel iffy about. Plus if I was gm id prob remove the heart of the team boost has soon has the familiar lose the ability.
The Eldritch Heritage route wouldn't be temporary, just fyi. Then your familiar would always be at effective level [your level-1]x2. Which is pretty worthless in most cases as all stats are still dependent on the master. The exceptions being if you're trying to get abilities early, or want to super-stack a Mauler familiar as Mauler's Endurance and the STR bonus both scale off master level.
But fair 'nuff. It's a good idea to never bring anything to the table that you wouldn't allow yourself.
A main advantage of Ratfolk is having other ratfolk in their group for melee swarming.
I can't say that I like brown-fur transmuters, ahh well.
Consider Varisian Tattoo feat (Transmutation). As an arcanist you have to use Runestones. {edit} I'd agree with Belefon that pumping Transmutation DCs isn't all that effective, evoKation is better for that.
I'd also plan on Retraining
Yea wont have other ratfolk so im taking cornered fury instead of swarming.. not the best but at least it might be of use once. I picked ratfolk cause I wanted to play one mostly not really to optimise, otherwise human is prob still better (I never play human tho)
I really like the idea of transforming allies into dragons and monsters dont think any other classes can do it. Not a fan of level dips for caster unless its a prestige class that keeps its casting level. Want to keep my character a caster mainly which is why the familiar is the one getting some melee stuff.
Yep already have varisian tattoo its just called mage tattoo on the psfrd. Ill consider going evocation it just doesnt synergise with brown fur has well but is prob stronger to get magic trick/ preferred fireball with school understanding:admixture
Yea ill check with my gm for retraining. Will prob try to switch my familiar to mascot at lv13 has said earlier.
If you are at all worried about your transmutations being dispelled, then maybe Tenacious Transmutation?