I have done some additional reading on Castles & Crusades - still not convinced you can just straight up use AD&D1e modules/adventures with it though.
I've never played that system, but my buddy that does says it can be done, but there will always be hiccups in play where rules have to be homebrewed.
* shrug *
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In any case, and according to this post (which I believe is still valid?), we should also be free to use the 2nd print of the S&W Complete (very easy to find on the www). So we will probably go with that.
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Good, that’s the edition I have. Also, the part of Castle & Crusades I like the best is how they do skills.
Good luck putting something together.
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Good, that’s the edition I have. Also, the part of Castle & Crusades I like the best is how they do skills.
Oh? How do they handle them?
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Skillfully?
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LOL. Bravo. Touche.
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Oh? How do they handle them?Good, that’s the edition I have. Also, the part of Castle & Crusades I like the best is how they do skills.
Basically this:
1. Every class can make any skill checks using a d20 (roll over a target #).2. No defined skills the GM decides what attribute bonus (str, dex, etc) you will use on the check.
3. Each class has two attributes they specialize in (one set and one they can chose).
4. Skills based on Specialized attributes always have a target # of 12 otherwise it is a target #18.
5. You add your attribute (and your level generally for skills based on specialized attribute) to your roll.
6. The GM adjusts the target number up to +6 based on difficulty.
So if one of your specialized attributes is dex (with an attribute bonus of+3 and 2nd level) and you want to sneak. You would have to roll over a 12 on a d20+3(attribute)+2(level). However, the GM could say it is a creaky old floor and add +1 to +6 to the target number.
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Oh? How do they handle them?Good, that’s the edition I have. Also, the part of Castle & Crusades I like the best is how they do skills.
Basically this:
1. Every class can make any skill checks using a d20 (roll over a target #).
2. No defined skills the GM decides what attribute bonus (str, dex, etc) you will use on the check.
3. Each class has two attributes they specialize in (one set and one they can chose).
4. Skills based on Specialized attributes always have a target # of 12 otherwise it is a target #18.
5. You add your attribute (and your level generally for skills based on specialized attribute) to your roll.
6. The GM adjusts the target number up to +6 based on difficulty.So if one of your specialized attributes is dex (with an attribute bonus of+3 and 2nd level) and you want to sneak. You would have to roll over a 12 on a d20+3(attribute)+2(level). However, the GM could say it is a creaky old floor and add +1 to +6 to the target number.
I really like that.
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As far as skills are concerned, we are probably going to try out a system similar to the described in ‘Chapter 5: Ability Checks and Skills’ from Dark Dungeons.
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Checked out Dark Dungeons. Some great ideas therein while still keeping the OSR feel.
It is definitely still a go - just pacing myself, and making a final decision/reading the module I am planning on running ;)
* watching anxiously for the recruitment *
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Some sand has been thrown into the gears - I call it AD&D2e :)
It is the RPG edition I have played the longest in my life, and I understand it is not everyone’s cup of tea, but I think it deserves a moment of consideration.
Quick blurb - I am currently involved in an AD&D2e game, and at times I have found it… Lackluster, or fiddly as OSW has put it. But that could be because I was in a different mindset before, and comparing it to say… Pathfinder or D&D5e. When looking at it through a different lens (from a Basic D&D, or even S&W perspective), my opinion might change. And that is why I am taking a second look at it.
You see, I found a base OSR system I like - S&W. However, I have also found myself more and more looking into other OSR systems to complement S&W, in areas I feel could contribute to creating more interesting/multi dimensional characters - stuff like stats generation, skills handling, class abilities, features, etc. And… AD&D2e has many of those things already embedded in it.
Also at the end of the day, the main objective here would be to play some ‘old’ D&D modules, and… AD&D2e could be the perfect fit for that. Fact is, when I started looking at some of the more iconic products/settings/campaigns, a LOT of them are in fact AD&D, which is pretty close to AD&D2e.
So that being said, I am currently reviewing/re-reading AD&D2e while also poking around in the www, and mulling if I want to make it a contender or not (Sebecloki had already pointed it out as a possibility, so maybe I should have listened more carefully). To those out there who are not fans of AD&D2e, don’t run away just yet. It might deserve a chance ;)
Heh, I get your reasoning but I’m not interested in ADnD or ADnD2e. I have the books. I played them back in the day…but:
For me it’s either super slimline/simple OSR I don’t have to particularly think about the mechanics and can live with the paucity of options OR its a plethora of flavorful options of PF1e that I have played a lot of and enjoyed; and PF2 that has a lot going for it in terms of character and encounter options plus its the ruleset I currently want to get a handle on.
The ADnDs are too much of a leap from “simple” and yet not enough of the complexity to make it interesting. Then again, if I’m just going to play a Human Fighter what does it matter?!? Well…maybe I want to play an Elven Fighter/Druid. Hmm. Ok, won’t run away. Will sit on the fence and wait.
While I loved it back in the day, not the greatest fan of 2e either. (Still like it a LOT more than 4e. LOL). I was overjoyed when our group moved on to 3rd edition. That all said, I'd give it a whirl if that's where you take it. Old school IS the idea, right? And thinking about it, there WERE some fantastic modules written for that edition...some of the best, ever, imho.
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Thank you for not running away just yet! :)
I have a couple of reasons for throwing AD&D2e into the mix, but no time to write them down at the moment (damned work and stuff!).
In the meantime, and if anyone is interested in refreshing their memories (or get newly acquainted with the basics of AD&D2e), I have been perusing the free PDF For Gold and Glory. It is a sort of 'retroclone' which adds some stuff from the Player's Options books, and it is decently organized.
This does not mean the decision is made, but I will leave the info here in case anyone wants to take a look, and they don't have the AD&D2e books on hand to do it.
Ok, downloaded and will tale a look.
I'll check it out as well.
Earned my wings, so to speak, on 2e and would definitely apply for such a game!
I’ll take a look at it too.
Grabbed it and looking to give it a read tonight.
Long had Gold and Glory.
And have good memories of 2e. Gonna assume those class handbooks won't be making an appearance.
Nope, the plan would include none of those for starters ;)
I know the system is 'a tad. more complex than most OSRs we have been discussing thus far, and also that AD&D2e has some well known issues, but here are a couple of things I like about using it:
- Since the plan is to run 'older' D&D and AD&D modules, I had been going over several different OSR systems, trying to find the one who would fit with the least required conversion (otherwise I will have no time for it). As you saw all over these posts, I learned a lot about OSR, and uncovered many I will definitely want to play in the future. However and for the purpose at hand, AD&D2e is hard to beat. After all, it is the system those modules were designed for;
- It seems to strike an interesting balance between simplicity and features. Namely in 'For Gold and Glory' the way they found to address non combat skills (allowing basically almost everyone to attempt every task, and having skill points spent on them simply making you better at it), and combat skills seems to allow for some variability, etc. While the classes at their core are still simple;
- It has something I personally like, which are the differentiated Saving Throws
Paralyzation, Poison, or Death
Rod, Staff, or Wand
Petrification or Polymorph
Breath Weapon
Spell
- I know sometimes it works against you, but I admit there is a nostalgia factor. AD&D and AD&D2e books from back in the day fill up most of my shelves, and 2e was the edition I played more of any roleplaying game ever, by far. I have good memories of it, there are still adventures I remember from top to bottom, and many more I have always wanted to play. So the plan is using that as drive;
- The ruleset IS customizable, so similarly to using any of the OSR systems we would not be 'set in stone', and instead would/could change things (if needed) as we went along. Keeping in mind this is an experiment ;)
- That being said, I think 'For Gold & Glory' does a good job in organizing and sorting the core of the rules. Like written in the Foreword, they tried to fix errors and fill in the gaps. They checked official sources, previous versions, then unofficial sources, magazines and forums to try and for a consistent set of playable rules. And from what I have read so far, the game 'feels' consistent;
- And it is Free, which means anyone can easily pick it up.
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If using AD&D2e/For Gold and Glory, there are still some considerations to make, namely starting ability score generation and so forth, but that is just a matter of making a decision and sticking with it.
So that was just an update on where we are at the moment. Of course all these decisions about system back and forward, have detracted from me thoroughly reading over the 2 or 3 options I am mulling as starter adventure. But I am still looking forward to it, so that is a good sign! And happy to hear feedback, if anyone has it.
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No feedback here. I'm looking forward to seeing what you come up with.
I am tempted to suggest 3d6 straight down for stats, mainly because the chaos gremlin side of me would find it funny.
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No feedback here. I'm looking forward to seeing what you come up with.
I am tempted to suggest 3d6 straight down for stats, mainly because the chaos gremlin side of me would find it funny.
My vote would almost always be 4d6 (drop the lowest) x6, but I like how you think. ;)
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That's the way I'd like to do it, but some people don't like the variability you get with that. To me, that's half the fun of doing it that way.
My vote would almost always be 4d6 (drop the lowest) x6, but I like how you think. ;)No feedback here. I'm looking forward to seeing what you come up with.
I am tempted to suggest 3d6 straight down for stats, mainly because the chaos gremlin side of me would find it funny.
We played 3d6, in order for BECMI. It worked ok.
By the time we were playing ADnD, and somewhere (I had thought it in Unearthed Arcana but just checked and it has disappeared - maybe Dragon magazine?) there was a table with ridiculous class based numbers of dice per stat, we never used and instead went with 4d6, drop the lowest, arrange how you like.
“Cruelled by the dice” works for OSR because you will probably be dead by 2nd level. Thus the old adage of not naming characters until they got to level 2.
But in ADnD, I don’t want to not be able to be the class I want to play because the rolls dictated it. Nor be told that I can only advance to certain levels, nor choose class combinations nor multiclass if human. That stuff is the beloved wonky heritage of grognards. But as a semi-grog (only been playing since ‘82) I’m not sure ADnD/clones is for me.
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Sorry, I meant I'd do the 4d6 drop lowest. As I said, it's the chaos gremlin side of me that'd do 3d6 straight down.
And 4d6 drop lowest doesn't always result in a playable character. I remember rolling stats that way once and getting an 11 as my highest attribute. GM said I had to reroll despite me leaning into it and deciding to play a kobold.
Hey folks — haven’t posted in years on these forums, but this thread is too tempting.
I have tried to run many old modules and simply converted them to Pathfinder 1E with some work. Adam ran in my first home brew Elves vs Dwarves and we teamed up as players.
I would check out DM Griimmy’s game where I played a hobbit thief.
If there is interest, count me in. I am always partial to the Hommlet or Slavers series of modules.
I think you were in my Keep on Borderlands port to Pathfinder. I uniquely appreciate the energy to run online campaigns. I would love to participate as a player.
My suggestion is that older modules have too many encounters (take all the lizardmen in the Saltmarsh modules as an extreme example). Trimming to have fewer epic encounters would be my advice.
Hey folks — haven’t posted in years on these forums, but this thread is too tempting.
I have tried to run many old modules and simply converted them to Pathfinder 1E with some work. Adam ran in my first home brew Elves vs Dwarves and we teamed up as players.
I would check out DM Griimmy’s game where I played a hobbit thief.
Hey there! Long time no see! I'm happy to say that I've gotten a little better since that game (One day I'll bring Brask back, maybe in this game). That was one of the first ones I ever played here on the forums.
I also suggest you check out my intrigue in Taldor thread. I converted an obscure old module into pathfinder and cut about 40% of the encounters. Just saying it was the best I could do.
As much as I love older systems for nostalgia— pathfinder 1E is the best fantasy RP system I have found!!
And, I can say Adam and I have a solid posting history — he was one of the first to join my first online game.
And, picking a good group is the most important thing. A shared interest in old school d&d is a good start. I need something to tear me away from Endless Space 2 — a worthy successor to Master of Orion 1/2.
Adam, you are almost a at 30K posts!!
Looks like For Gold & Glory would work for a good number of us, Albion...
Adam, you are almost a at 30K posts!!
Who knows, I might actually remember to check often enough to catch when I go over 30k. Still it's kinda hard to believe that I've got that many posts. Almost all of them are in the online campaign part of the boards.
And, as for a rolling system, I was hoping to have a classic monk or paladin. It seems only fair the system require me to do my best to satisfy the tough entry requirments for example put the best roll in charisma if no 17 is available and convert to 17,
And, I echo the gold and glory suggestion. DM needs to like the system!!
In my Keep on the Bordarlands campaign I tried to speed things along as much as possible and avoid what i refer to as doors, mandatory stops in the action that require everyone to post that are not exciting. I linked as much of the reference materials in the main thread as possible to make it move.
I think we tried a Hommlett campaign as players together that seemed to be progressing well. I think I used this guy. Our group chemistry was pretty good and I learned how awesome old school rangers were.
Anyway, here is a link to what was my attempt to push things along at max speed for Keep on the Borderlands.
And for you Gygax fans :
Gary's Suggested Order for a Gygax Only Campaign
I. Keep on the Borderlands
II. Village of Hommlet
III. Dungeonland
IV. Land beyond the Magic Mirror
V. Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth
VI. Forgotten Temple of Tharizdun
VII. Steading of the Hill Giant Chief
VIII. Glacial Rift of the Frost Giant Jarl
IX. Hall of the Fire Giant King
X. Mordenkainen's Fantastic Adventure
XI. Tomb of Horrors
XII. Descent to the Depths of the Earth
XIII. Shrine of the Kuo-toa
XIV. Vault of the Drow
XV. Isle of the Ape
XVI. Necropolis (final portion).
I know it's a classic, but I don't think the Tomb of Horrors is good for a campaign. There's just too much in that module that's just an "eff you" to the players.
Most useful magic item for that module
Spade of Colossal Escavation, dig around all the traps and loot all the treasure!! When my players bought one and hired three dwarven miners to help out, I had to reward them for their ingenuity!!
My favorite Zoo Module of all time is still S2 Whiteplume Mountain, hardest part is convincing your DM to let you keep the good weapons!!
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There has been a thread explosion!
Thank you everyone for the feedback, and sharing your thoughts/experience.
I guess it is confirmed there would be interest in such a game, so I will get the wheels moving forward from my end.
I have a couple of things and decisions to mull over before I can get the game running, but things are falling in place.
Late to thread, but if going the AD&D2e route (Gold and Glory) I would throw a submission into the mix.
Ah... a blast from the past! Good to see ya, Gnobby!
Also interested in whatever you come up with, Albion
By the time we were playing ADnD, and somewhere (I had thought it in Unearthed Arcana but just checked and it has disappeared - maybe Dragon magazine?) there was a table with ridiculous class based numbers of dice per stat, we never used and instead went with 4d6, drop the lowest, arrange how you like.]
I remember that too - was some crazy matrix for specific classes and (also) would have sworn it was in Unearthed Arcana with all the "new" class options...
@ Albion: Ditto on the interest - split my D&D Halcyon days betwixt Mystara (Basic) and Greyhawk (AD&D) so would be down for pitching to whatever you come up with.
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‘Twas unearthed arcana with like barbarians getting 12d6 for str and 3d6 for int
If things take off I will convert one of my very obscure modules to whatever system to shed the DM load. Sadly my conversion of Swordthrust to Pathfinder was an epic disaster. Modern Pathfinder players believe in the sanctity of balanced CR and refuse to think any encounter can’t be winnable by brute force :-(
Probably would never survive going down the well!!
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‘Twas unearthed arcana with like barbarians getting 12d6 for str and 3d6 for int.
Thanks Samduc. Page 74. Thought I was losing my mind. Memory is a funny thing - I remember it being low down on right side of a right-hand page with gradations of white and gray like many tables of the era. But no, left hand page, left side, near the top, all white.