Bounty hunter archetype is surprisingly strong

[Mightypion]

Well, I did make a bounty hunter NPC for a game, and decided to play around a bit with this archetype.

Note, this was under a feat tax rule that essentially made combat exerptize and weapon finesse free.

To fully work, it needs the following feats:
--Combat exerptize
--Dirty trick improved
--Dirty trick greater (6 BAB)
--Quick dirty trick (req 6 BAB)
--Dirty trick master (req 11 BAB)
what does it do?
--Start with appying a dirty trick blinded on your first attack via quick dirty trick.
--Enemy is now blinded and thus flatfooted to your other attacks. Forgo sneak attack damage, apply your number of iteratives as extra dirty tricks. At level 11 you will have 2 more, you can have more then those by some relatively inexpensive secondary naturals, which can apply additional dirty tricks.
Aim to inflict either entangled into pinned or dazzled into dazed with your subsequent dirty tricks. Sickened into nauseated is also a consideration.

--You can also do this ranged, although the range is a bit shorter.

--Relatively few enemies are immune to your entire dirty trick kit
--You can consider a single level dip into white haired witch, for an extra secondary natural attack with grab and you dont get grappled, and thus inflict even more stati.
--You can be mostly STR based, as you are still a slayer, allowing you to pick twf and improved twf at levels 4 and 8 (without caring about dex reqs) which your CMB is going to like a lot.
--At level 12, your CMB bonus is 12 (CMB) + 4 (sneak attack dice via sneak to Dirty trick conversion) + 4(improved and greater dirty trick) + your weapon enchancement bonus (since you are using your weapons to do dirty tricks, 3-4ish) + STR mod (7ish) +30ish before temporary modifiers from you party like heroism or enlarge person. A relatively appropriate CR13 Glabrezu has a CMD of 34, a harder target for CMB, like a Crimson worm, has a still hittable CMD of 45.

Thoughts?

[TxSam88]

sounds nasty, but giving up you sneak attack damage lets the bad guy live a lot longer. I'm of the camp that says do max damage, kill bad guys fast.

now the blinded trick to grant flatfooted is pretty cool...

[Melkiador]

You can layer on dirty tricks so thick that the enemy is about as good as dead. Against "bosses" who typically are supposed to last multiple rounds against hit point damage, it can be particularly devastating.

The main reason I don't run this kind of build is because it usually isn't very fun for the GM and party. Your turns take a long time and require the GM to track multiple negative effects, often over multiple enemies every combat.

If you are doing this, you should skip combat expertise for the Dirty Fighting feat.So, you have weird rules that make combat expertise cheaper. To anyone else making a build like this, consider Dirty Fighting over Combat Expertise.

[Phoebus Alexandros]

The OP mentioned getting Combat Expertise via a homebrew tax feat system. Depending on the rest of their build, getting Dirty Fighting as a regular feat might not be an option.

[Melkiador]

Phoebus Alexandros wrote:

The OP mentioned getting Combat Expertise via a homebrew tax feat system. Depending on the rest of their build, getting Dirty Fighting as a regular feat might not be an option.

Yeah, I had already edited that, but our timings were bad.

[Phoebus Alexandros]

Gah, sorry about that!

[Melkiador]

Phoebus Alexandros wrote:

Gah, sorry about that!

Nah. I should have read closer in the first place. I caught it when proofing my advice and found I missed a detail

[Mightypion]

Dirty fighting is certainly an option if combat expertize is not free.

Another fun option, after getting dirty trick master, is a level 1 dip in white haired witch. Start with a blind, then add entangled and pinned via dirty trick master, then strike with the hair and grapple without being grappled, next turn zip tie and CDG from an ally.

It is probably better as a special fight overall. The specific tracking of the enemies CMD gets kind of annoying (because mutliple of the dirty tricks or grapples reduce it further, during a single attack routine)

I have used this build as an "bounty hunter for hire" NPC, she was pretty effective in abducting PCs (converting away from Callistria is well, risky. Especially if you owe the Temple of Callistria a bunch of money).

[Melkiador]

If you have a magic weapon crafter, you should check out dueling.
https://aonprd.com/MagicWeaponsDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Dueling%20(PSFG)

[VoodistMonk]

I have found Bounty Hunter to be a fun chassis for a Grippli with a net. Even with delayed access to Ranger Combat Style feats, we can still pick up Improved Dirty Trick @ 4, Greater @ 8, and Quick @ 12...

Here's what I got for my Grippli Bounty Hunter, so far... my Knotted Nets team isn't finished, yet... he can perform dirty trick, disarm, drag, grapple/pin, reposition, and trip maneuvers with his net... as well as entangle, and use it as a one-handed reach weapon.
1. Net Adept
3. Net Menuevering
4. Improved Dirty Trick
5. Equipment Trick
7. Net Trickery
8. Greater Dirty Trick
9. Dirty Fighting
11. Improved Grapple
12. Quick Dirty Trick

[Zwordsman]

As anote for this. There is a threaten at range feat, which would allow you to reliably get sneak attack and so dirty trick if you have a cooperative ally. (And likely outflank which means you don't need facing)

It is however silly feat intensive. Still a fun idea. Off hand I've always wanted to make one who used empty quiver and snapshot w/ this to own a territory

[Mightypion]

VoodistMonk wrote:

I have found Bounty Hunter to be a fun chassis for a Grippli with a net. Even with delayed access to Ranger Combat Style feats, we can still pick up Improved Dirty Trick @ 4, Greater @ 8, and Quick @ 12...

Here's what I got for my Grippli Bounty Hunter, so far... my Knotted Nets team isn't finished, yet... he can perform dirty trick, disarm, drag, grapple/pin, reposition, and trip maneuvers with his net... as well as entangle, and use it as a one-handed reach weapon.
1. Net Adept
3. Net Menuevering
4. Improved Dirty Trick
5. Equipment Trick
7. Net Trickery
8. Greater Dirty Trick
9. Dirty Fighting
11. Improved Grapple
12. Quick Dirty Trick

Bounty hunters have innate proficiency with nets, so you dont neccessarily need to be a small sized Ghiply, which strongly reduces what you can CMB.

This allows you to pick up quick draw at level 1, and have several folded nets and use them one after the other, without giving up your moveaction.
You can put a bola, Pilum, throwing axe or whatever in your off hand, throw it, an then dare for the enemy to close.

[VoodistMonk]

Yeah, but any time one CAN be a Grippli, one SHOULD be a Grippli. Lol.

No. Not really. Not at all.

But I do have an 8-person, Grippli commando team based around the Knotted Nets teamwork feat. They are my Frogmen (like the old combat divers).

[ErichAD]

The bounty hunter with dirty trick master and throat slicer is probably a little too potent. Worse if you have a pet or familiar with throat slicer that can run up on the pinned target when needed.

Bounty Hunter conveniently combines with Sin Slayer and Sniper as well, which are both quite nice.

Double dazing to end a target's turn is also pretty potent, and once you're flanking the target it's not hard to get that going. I think you could make many combats much less fun than they'd normally be. I'd be careful about what type of game I brought this character to.