Has anyone played with the Cunning Killer feat? How well does it play out in latter levels? By 12th level, you’re able to affect creatures with an Intelligence of 8 (and eventually you get those with scores of 10 and 12), but it feels like average Intelligence scores around those levels generally outstrip this feat.
|
Has anyone played with the Cunning Killer feat? How well does it play out in latter levels? By 12th level, you’re able to affect creatures with an Intelligence of 8 (and eventually you get those with scores of 10 and 12), but it feels like average Intelligence scores around those levels generally outstrip this feat.
Never played with it, but the major issue i see at first glance is that it is very intelligence based (the actual skill check, the duration, and the restriction on relative intelligence) which is typically not a stat martial characters invest heavily in...
Given the need to keep multiple knowledge skills 'up' to cover all your bases for an ability that doesn't ever work against even reasonably intelligent foes makes this feat's power level pretty low: It's not a huge investment to take, but it feels like the sort of things most players will forget they have after not being able to use it for an adventure or two...
I guess it's great for really smart bullies that like to fight stupid things... but for anyone concerned with fighting intelligent enemies, it seems like a trap option. Maybe. I don't know. It seems to have the same janky structure as Kirin Style or Elven Battle Focus or whatever that style is to study your target and add your Intelligence modifier to damage.
It feels best suited for a magus, bard, or Int-based gish in general. They might have a suitable Knowledge skill or two that are kept up, as well as the Int stat to use it. They can't max it out, but maybe a bloodrager could?
Never played with it, but the major issue i see at first glance is that it is very intelligence based (the actual skill check, the duration, and the restriction on relative intelligence) which is typically not a stat martial characters invest heavily in...
Given the need to keep multiple knowledge skills 'up' to cover all your bases …
I had in mind something like either a Lore Warden or a high-born Ranger (with Comprehensive Education) who relied as much on his wits, academia, anatomical knowledge, and occult lore as he did on his brawn and agility. In either case, Skill Points to put toward Knowledge weren’t going to be an issue.
… for an ability that doesn't ever work against even reasonably intelligent foes makes this feat's power level pretty low: It's not a huge investment to take, but it feels like the sort of things most players will forget they have after not being able to use it for an adventure or two...
I guess it's great for really smart bullies that like to fight stupid things... but for anyone concerned with fighting intelligent enemies, it seems like a trap option. Maybe. I don't know.
This is really the crux of it. How much mileage will you get out of this feat? I wish there were a way to sort the Bestiaries by, e.g., ability score on either the AON website or the original PRD. Unfortunately, typing in “Int 8” in the search bar in the AON website doesn’t help much. One of my 100 + results was… the Whispering Tyrant.
So I decided to do a dive into the bestiary spreadsheet the d20PFSRD website makes available. This is by no means comprehensive, as the last time it was updated was 2015 and I’m going purely by Intelligence scores (and thus haven’t yet looked at cross-sections of Int score and CR), but …
There were at least 3,083 monsters in the Bestiaries, as of July 2015. At entry level, Cunning Killer gives you access to at least 700 of those. At BAB +4, you get at least another 150. At BAB +8, you get at least another 280. At BAB +12, you get at least another 210. At that point, you’re adding a +3 insight bonus to attack and damage rolls, plus another +1 competence bonus to attack rolls. By 15th level, the competence bonus is +2, and is applied to your saves as well.
All that comes as a free action, against close to half the Bestiary. I wonder if the real beneficiary of this wouldn’t be a Magus, or a martially-inclined Bard looking to wipe away his BAB deficit.
I think a Panoply Savant Occultist with the Trappings of the Warrior could probably get a lot of use out of this feat. Trappings of the Warrior effectively makes the class a full BAB class with a high INT base and decent skill ranks. Would need a trait or other ability to add Knowledge Nature as a class skill though.
|
|
It feels best suited for a magus, bard, or Int-based gish in general. They might have a suitable Knowledge skill or two that are kept up, as well as the Int stat to use it. They can't max it out, but maybe a bloodrager could?
Trust me, Intelligence is pretty much the only stat Bloodragers don't already need (Str, Dex, Con, Cha) or at least strongly desire (Wis)...
It feels best suited for a magus, bard, or Int-based gish in general. They might have a suitable Knowledge skill or two that are kept up, as well as the Int stat to use it. They can't max it out, but maybe a bloodrager could?Trust me, Intelligence is pretty much the only stat Bloodragers don't already need (Str, Dex, Con, Cha) or at least strongly desire (Wis)...
For some reason my brain was trying to come up with a bloodrager Int-based archetype. Thanks though!
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
- I'd like to spotlight Vigilante here - Ancestral Enlightenment grants +4 to trained knowledge skills and allows untrained checks, Inspired Vigilante grants a pool for adding 1d6 to skill checks after the roll, Skill Familiarity allows take 10 in combat with four selected skills, Social Grace grants a +4 bonus to select skills (one plus one per four levels after 1st), and Well-Known Expert grants a bonus equal to half your level to knowledge checks.
You'd need to stay in social identity for the last two, but the class works just fine doing that.
Note that all of those are social talents, not vigilante talents, and that the class has 6+int skill ranks per level and doesn't need any (other) mental ability scores.
Skald also shouldn't be forgotten - fewer skill ranks than Bard, but half level to and take 10 for KN checks just like a Bard, and more martial inclined.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
It's cheap on prerequisites which is nice. If you had a reason for high int and knowledge skills already, it's probably worth it, but I don't think it's worth building toward.
You get about half the bestiary when you max it out, that's great, but that will only happen for a full BAB class. I think the possibility of landing in a campaign that doesn't accommodate the feat is pretty high. The possibility of most powerful adversaries being too smart is also pretty high.
I'd take the feat on a big game hunter, expecting it only to work on animals and magical beasts, or on someone who has other reasons for high knowledge skills.