Matthew Morris RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8 |
miknick55 |
Only thing I found from Paizo is the Splintersoul archetype, but it has its own drawbacks.
Ah, yup. This isn’t perfect, as I was going to use the Serial Killer archetype(which doesn’t stack with Splintersoul) to have sort of a Boondocks Saints/Dexter type who kills bad guys in terrifying displays for the greater good, but maybe SL archetype isn’t necessary.
Thank you!
Matthew Morris RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8 |
Matthew Morris wrote:Only thing I found from Paizo is the Splintersoul archetype, but it has its own drawbacks.Ah, yup. This isn’t perfect, as I was going to use the Serial Killer archetype(which doesn’t stack with Splintersoul) to have sort of a Boondocks Saints/Dexter type who kills bad guys in terrifying displays for the greater good, but maybe SL archetype isn’t necessary.
Thank you!
Just checked Legendary games Vigilante books, nothing new there. So looks like Spintersoul is the only option.
Derklord |
I don't see a need for two different alignments. Either the acts performed are evil, or they aren't. If they are, the character is evil, period. if they aren't, the character isn't evil.
Someone who acts civilized most of the time and commits evil acts at night isn't neutral or even good, they just hide being evil during the day. Meanwhile, if you and your GM deem the killing of those "bad guys" to not be evil acts, the character isn't evil, even if they make it look like evil, gruesome acts to discourage other criminals.
Mysterious Stranger |
Derklord in any other character I would agree with you on this, but the character is a Vigilante. Having a second alignment is a class feature that helps to avoid exposing his vigilante identity. When in the social identity the character detect as that alignment and is even treated as that alignment for all purposes including spells that have a different effect based on alignment. So, if the characters social identity is neutral a detect evil does not show him as evil, and a paladins smite evil does not work on him. That is a very good reason for an evil murderous character to have a different alignment.
miknick55 |
After reading the Splintersoul archetype, I actually really like it. I think it fits the character, and I don’t mind the drawback, especially getting early access to Quick/Immediate Change.
As for having a two different alignments(well three once I have a mundane identity from the Many Guises talent), I think it’s a really cool feature of the vigilante in general, and now this archetype in particular. I don’t think that having differing alignments is all that outlandish, when compared to casting spells that control the weather or bring back the dead or travel between planes, etc. But mainly, I just think it sounds interesting and fun.
Thanks for the comments and happy adventuring!
Michael
Derklord |
- The problem with multiple alignments (for Vigilants that aren't Splintersoul) is that it breaks how alignment is supposed to work. Alignment is "general moral and personal attitudes", that's not something you switch every day. If Batman thinks that beating up criminals is acceptable behaviour, that's at probably chaotic neutral at best, and putting on the billionaire playboy Bruce Wayne identity doesn't change what he considers acceptable behaviour, it only changes whether he shows it or not.
Indeed, the CRB actually outright says "Players who frequently have their characters change alignment should in all likelihood be playing chaotic neutral characters." CRB pg. 168, and yet this is exactly what a Vigilante with two different alignments does.
Ironically, the Dual Identity description calls the two different identities a "charade", which means a pretense, an act. The differences between the identities aren't real, they're only played. And therefore, the moral believes don't change. I wonder if the dual alignment thing was added later on in the development process to make the dual identity have an actual mechanical effect, and they missed that clashes with the earlier text.
None of that applies to the Splintersoul, of course. If you want a Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde type of character, playing someone who genuinly changes their personality, I strongly suggest that archetype! If you want to play a Vigilante who actually uses both identities (something not in any way required), I think it's actually an upgrade.
Mysterious Stranger |
The way I look at it the vigilante’s dual identity is more in the nature of the ultimate disguise than actually having two alignments. There are ways to appear to be a different alignment; the vigilante is simply able to do this better than others. He is not so much changing his alignment, but rather creating a shell of a persona so real it even fools himself and the universe itself. Spells and all other abilities interact with the shell persona instead of the vigilante.
Foeclan |
Not Vigilante, but the Master Chymist prestige class lets you have two alignments, with the only restriction that they be different. It's basically the 'Jekyll and Hyde' class.
Matthew Morris RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8 |
The problem with multiple alignments (for Vigilants that aren't Splintersoul) is that it breaks how alignment is supposed to work. Alignment is "general moral and personal attitudes", that's not something you switch every day. If Batman thinks that beating up criminals is acceptable behaviour, that's at probably chaotic neutral at best, and putting on the billionaire playboy Bruce Wayne identity doesn't change what he considers acceptable behaviour, it only changes whether he shows it or not.
I think that the class ability is based on the becoming the mask trope. I always think of Simon Templar in the Saint TV show as a vigilante whose dual identity is known but has the immediate change talent. Everyone 'knows' what the Saint is known for, but Simon is so suave and charming people see his social identiy, until he needs to be the master criminal, then the personality that has that bonus to intimidate comes out. In Pathfinder terms, he falls so deeply into that role he's created that he now shows in that role.
Aside, I think that's why Superman has obscurity instead of renown. People overlook Clark Kent and aren't scared of Superman.