Should I nix a synthesist summoner from my campaign?

[Ginganinja91]

I am running the Strange Aeons adventure path with a relatively large group (7 players). There is a large experience disparity between the players, 3 multi-year veterans, 3 brand new, and one with non-pathfinder TTRPG experience. One of my veterans wants to run a synthesist and we're doing point buy which can be abused pretty easily by that class. Should I just ask them to play a different class (they're pretty understanding) or should I try to make it workable. I'm just afraid that the newbies will get significantly outshined at the beginning of the campaign when there are the strongest disparities between synths and other classes.

[Taja the Barbarian]

I'm under the impression that Synthesists are fine as long as the point-buy isn't abused too much (dumping all the physical stats): They lose a lot of action economy by combining 'Master' and 'Pet' into a single being.

[Kurald Galain]

The issue is that, especially at low level, synthesists very visibly upstage most other frontline characters; and that may well be unfun for the inexperienced players. A well-played support or control character may technically be stronger but that's not so visible.

So yes, I think you should ask the player to not take a synthesist.

My suggestion is to first ask all the novice players what they want to play, and then discuss with the veterans what character they can make to complement (and not upstage) that party. This is also because novice players tend to have ONE main idea for a character and veterans tend to have multiple concepts that they still want to try.

[Mightypion]

Convince the veterans to play relatively buff focused characters. I am probably the most "munchkinned" player in a WOTR campaign, and I am a Skald and basically gigabuff them (while still outDPRing our rookie two handed fighter, mostly because mythic upgradeable weapon).

Several of the "hand out feats/ragepowers" classes are great in such a setting, especially with a very large party.

[Claxon]

My suggestion is drop point buy and provide a stat array to players.

My homebrew rule is:
Everyone gets a stat array of 16, 15, 14, 13, 12, 11 as base to be modified by race as normal. If this is unsuitable you may use 25 points and the point buy system in the CRB, but no stat may be higher than 18 after racial adjustments. You may not sell a score below 8.

[SheepishEidolon]

Alternatively you could set up two parallel Strange Aeons campaigns. Put the three experienced players into the first, and make things harder if necessary. Put the other four into the second, and tone down difficulty if needed.

It shouldn't cost much additional prep work, avoids the hassle of a big table (keeping everyone invested and everything tracked) and might be interesting for you (since different groups approach situations differently).

One or two players could even be in both groups, as long as they manage to keep their mouths shut about things they already know.

[Belafon]

My advice would be to ask them not to play the synthesist. Or, really, any chained summoner.

The summoner was deliberately detuned in Unchained. That's not to say it's impossible to play an APG/UM summoner that is in line with the rest of the party, but it takes a lot of work. For experienced players it is very easy to dominate the action, even if you didn't make the "absolute best build."

You may have a great player who can self-police outstandingly but it's a joy-killer to multiple people if you have to take them aside several times and say "hey, you need to do less than your best so others can shine sometimes." If they're understanding, I'd avoid the potential conflict at the start.

[Mudfoot]

If there are 7 players, I'd discourage anyone from having a summoner or indeed any pet-focused character. 7 PCs will go slowly enough already.

[Temperans]

With this type of stuff it heavily depends on who your players are and how much trust you all have with each other.

I know for a fact that a new player can optimize as well as a veteran, or that a veteran can play as unoptimized as a new player.

Honestly you should talk about it with the group and see how exactly the summoner player wants to go about it. If they play it as a "hulk" type thing where they only go full power when needed then it might not be so problematic. But that requires a really good player.

[Azothath]

I think using PFS1 Org Play rules makes a great baseline if you want to run a somewhat close to RAW campaign. A lot of work is done for you AND there's paperwork you and your players can look up quite easily.
AoN RAW   FAQs   CmpgnClarif   The Guide(download)
From there you can add back in things.

Classes where Summoner Archtype Synthesist didn't make it to UnCh Summoner. IMO Summoner is clearly broken (spell list) AND confusing.

One thing you can do is Help with the character design/plan. Newbs will need that help. You could also team an experienced player up with a newby (by class or personality) and have them mentor the player.

I'd find a couple of classes that work well with your campaign and add a gold incentive to play those classes.

[Kurald Galain]

Claxon wrote:

If this is unsuitable you may use 25 points and the point buy system in the CRB

25 sounds like a bit much; I think the default for adventure paths is 15 point buy.

Mudfoot wrote:

If there are 7 players, I'd discourage anyone from having a summoner or indeed any pet-focused character. 7 PCs will go slowly enough already.

Yes, that. The adventure path is also written for 4 characters, so having 7 will require some serious retuning.

[Claxon]

Kurald Galain wrote:

Claxon wrote:

If this is unsuitable you may use 25 points and the point buy system in the CRB

25 sounds like a bit much; I think the default for adventure paths is 15 point buy.

Mudfoot wrote:

If there are 7 players, I'd discourage anyone from having a summoner or indeed any pet-focused character. 7 PCs will go slowly enough already.

Yes, that. The adventure path is also written for 4 characters, so having 7 will require some serious retuning.

Bounding at a max of 18 in stat to start with just means I end up with characters having well rounded ability scores. It doesn't really increase the power level ceiling but it does raise the floor and help prevent things like a fighter with no useful skills or a wizard who (nearly) dies every combat because they have a con of 6 from levels 1 to 4.