Level 26+ creatures.


Advice


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

I am finding myself in need of stat blocks for creatures that are beyond level 25.

The GMG has guides for giving stats to creatures up to level 24, for things like AC, saves, attack bonuses, AOE damage, and the like, but what would that table look like if it continued up to, for example, 30?

When these levels are introduced, it will lead in to the players being able to reach levels up to 25, which will include Mythic Proficiency (10+level) and +4 weapons, so with the basic math in hand I can probably eventually reason some basic numbers out, but I'd like to know if any ideas or guidelines have already been established by the community.

On top of which, I'd like to know roughly what levels I actually need. Narratively, what do different levels beyond 25 mean for the world? What are the levels of gods?

I'm working on the presumption that if someone statted up Sarenrae or Asmodeus, they would sit around 30 or so, but is that accurate or nah? Should it go higher?


3 people marked this as a favorite.

I don't believe anyone has done them. If you're already devising further progression beyond level 20, you've kind of dug your own hole of having to also devise creature progression.

Also, full gods don't have stats. You get in a fight with a god, you lose. Even the CR30 creatures in 1e like Baba Yaga or whatever non-god demon lords had stats, and thus could be killed.


The math in Pathfinder 2nd edition is bounded tightly enough that if a level 20 party were to encounter a level 30 creature, they would essentially have no chance to prevail in a fight.

The existing level 26 creatures serve to fill the "baddest thing in the bestiary" tradition that was codified in the Tarasque in the second monster's manual in 1983. It is not currently necessary to come up with things nastier than Treerazer.

The big problem with "extending leveling past 20" is that while the proficiency system scales forever, it's unclear what a level 24 class feat or a level 23 class feature would look like. Are there 11th level spells? However this works when they get around to doing Mythic we will figure out once they get around to doing Mythic.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

The tables in the GMG are mostly linear with the exception of HP, last I checked. This means you should be able to extrapolate them out for a rough approximation of level 25+ creatures.

For example, Strike Attack Bonus goes up on a 1,2,1,2 (or +1.5/level) pattern (with the exception of Low progression). So a level 28 creature with a High bonus would have a bonus 6 higher than a level 24 creature with a High bonus, or +50.

Other statistics vary, but they go up somewhere between +1.4/level and +1.67/level, if memory serves.

Worth noting that 2e has pretty tightly-bounded accuracy, such that you'll want the PCs' numbers to go up about the same amount as well - over 5 new levels you'll want an additional +2 or +3 aside from the baked-in +1/level. The extra proficiency tier and higher item bonuses seem like they'll do fine for that, but you might want to bake in things like a boost to Legendary for most martials' weapon proficiency, in addition to making Mythic available for skills.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Grankless wrote:

I don't believe anyone has done them. If you're already devising further progression beyond level 20, you've kind of dug your own hole of having to also devise creature progression.

Also, full gods don't have stats. You get in a fight with a god, you lose. Even the CR30 creatures in 1e like Baba Yaga or whatever non-god demon lords had stats, and thus could be killed.

Yeah. Whatever the community has done won't necessarily help because you've already got a plan for the PC progression and monster progression only matters in relation to PCs.


Vali Nepjarson wrote:
I am finding myself in need of stat blocks for creatures that are beyond level 25.

I am extremely curious what the purpose of having stats for a level 25 creature would be.

You couldn't have it directly fight the players. That would just end badly.

So... ?


1 person marked this as a favorite.
breithauptclan wrote:
Vali Nepjarson wrote:
I am finding myself in need of stat blocks for creatures that are beyond level 25.

I am extremely curious what the purpose of having stats for a level 25 creature would be.

You couldn't have it directly fight the players. That would just end badly.

So... ?

Vali has stated players will also increase their level and that they are going for a Mythic feel. I assume they are planning quite the long campaign or want their players to feel an extreme powerlevel.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Well, if you're homebrewing "what PCs are past 20th level" then presumably you can create antagonists built like PCs through the same rules.

Dark Archive

breithauptclan wrote:
Vali Nepjarson wrote:
I am finding myself in need of stat blocks for creatures that are beyond level 25.

I am extremely curious what the purpose of having stats for a level 25 creature would be.

You couldn't have it directly fight the players. That would just end badly.

So... ?

Either its "oh no we are max level and this is still unbeatable doom monster" dealio, or its "we have several super special artifacts that give us higher bonuses than normal max bonuses" dealio OR its "we need to weaken bad guy first before fight!"


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Generally speaking if you're not adding new proficiency tiers (based on the progression, you'd expect classes like the magus to hit legendary in spells at 21 for instance, but you don't have to do that) you can just add +1 to all relevant attributes per level.

HP is a little more tricky, but level * (20 + (level-23)) actually kind of gets you in the ballpark for creatures level 23 or higher.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
breithauptclan wrote:
Vali Nepjarson wrote:
I am finding myself in need of stat blocks for creatures that are beyond level 25.

I am extremely curious what the purpose of having stats for a level 25 creature would be.

You couldn't have it directly fight the players. That would just end badly.

So... ?

There are 2 level 25 creatures and both are beatable. Sort of... One can't die, but you could beat it without that feature.s

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder Second Edition / Advice / Level 26+ creatures. All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in Advice