Overflow "Amp"


Kineticist Class


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Might be way too similar to psychic mechanically, but like, making and balancing the impulses around being without overflow by default but you can choose to overflow to "amp" it for a greater effect.

Could even apply to the default Elemental Blast per example where it turns into a "Power Attack".


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It's not an elegant solution but probably the easiest. Having a pool of 2 focus points that could be used to boost overflows like psychic amps and have a better refocus is a possibility. Would give some nova potential as well.

Sczarni

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Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
aobst128 wrote:
It's not an elegant solution but probably the easiest. Having a pool of 2 focus points that could be used to boost overflows like psychic amps and have a better refocus is a possibility. Would give some nova potential as well.

I'd rather give it unlimited uses of strain mind and D12 hit die.


Verzen wrote:
aobst128 wrote:
It's not an elegant solution but probably the easiest. Having a pool of 2 focus points that could be used to boost overflows like psychic amps and have a better refocus is a possibility. Would give some nova potential as well.
I'd rather give it unlimited uses of strain mind and D12 hit die.

That could work too. Twice as good with 12 hitpoints compared to psychics 6.


IMO it's just strange to Kineticist don't have Focus point ability.

I know that many people (including myself) like the ideia of have a unlimited resources char. But I don't feel that hade some special power ability that works 1-3 times in an encounter is a bad thing. It's just like some monk's ki spells that a stronger AOE attack or a killing blow. This don't prevent's monks fighting abilities, it's just a extra special attack. This could be very thematic for Kineticists.


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Paizo does seem kind of wary of using focus points.

Like they have this pretty simple, modular system that is really useful for game design. It's basically just the concept of "cooldowns" in point form, and it fundamentally works the same way across classes. Once you understand it for one character it works the same way on your next character.

Maybe you don't want to give Fighters or Rogues or whatever focus points, because they're sort of reserved for spell-like abilities--fair enough. But Kineticist seems like the kind of class that could reconceptualize 1e Burn into focus abilities because a lot of what it's doing is spell-like.


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I was legitimately surprised and a bit baffled to learn Kineticist would not use the Focus mechanic. It seems so... obvious? I don't know, ever since the game released I had in my mind that when Kineticist eventually comes out, it will be the class to use the Focus mechanic to its full potential in return of not having actual slots.

Maybe the unfortunate timeframe of Psychic releasing so close to this Playtest made them feel like they had to find an alternative way, to no not make the two classes similar, but honestly, I would rather have a class that's like a Psychic with no slots at all but much stronger at will options, than a class that's always fighting against its own action economy due to being a resourceless caster.

Sczarni

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Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Kyrone wrote:

Might be way too similar to psychic mechanically, but like, making and balancing the impulses around being without overflow by default but you can choose to overflow to "amp" it for a greater effect.

Could even apply to the default Elemental Blast per example where it turns into a "Power Attack".

I think all overflow abilities should be able to amp up using HP and I'm still disappointed it doesn't do this.


Verzen wrote:
Kyrone wrote:

Might be way too similar to psychic mechanically, but like, making and balancing the impulses around being without overflow by default but you can choose to overflow to "amp" it for a greater effect.

Could even apply to the default Elemental Blast per example where it turns into a "Power Attack".

I think all overflow abilities should be able to amp up using HP and I'm still disappointed it doesn't do this.

It's also a very interesting option IMO.

Instead of loose the element at hand make Overflow Impulses consuming HP. This is very flavorful to KAS and can solve the "budget" problem with HP. And once this uses a important resource (your health) it's easily to use them to improve the power level of the Impulse to a spell power level. Also makes an interesting teamwork with healers ("OK I can overflow my powers to save us from this situation but this will hurt me in the process I will need your heal support after this!").


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Health is only important once you don't have it. 100 or 1 your performance isn't being hampered.

For that reason I view it as a poor actual balance point overall. Because your strength then becomes how lucky your GM was that night. Not whether you managed your resources.


I disagree. HP is way more important than spell points or spellslots for example. If a char stays without focus point or Spellslots can still attack with other resources like Strikes and Cantrips. Maybe this char can loose some AoE effects, utility, and firepower but it's still useful and still in the game. Other thing is that uses of slots and focus don't hamper the performance too while you still have any of them.
But a char that uses HP increases it's risk to die! Don't expect that a player that's half HP wounded 2 or doomed 2 will uses Overflow without thinking. When HP is a consumable resource you always will use it carefully.

The main difference is that HP usually more available and flexible than spellslot and focus points due the incremental risk to die.

Sczarni

Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
YuriP wrote:

I disagree. HP is way more important than spell points or spellslots for example. If a char stays without focus point or Spellslots can still attack with other resources like Strikes and Cantrips. Maybe this char can loose some AoE effects, utility, and firepower but it's still useful and still in the game. Other thing is that uses of slots and focus don't hamper the performance too while you still have any of them.

But a char that uses HP increases it's risk to die! Don't expect that a player that's half HP wounded 2 or doomed 2 will uses Overflow without thinking. When HP is a consumable resource you always will use it carefully.

The main difference is that HP usually more available and flexible than spellslot and focus points due the incremental risk to die.

Plus we don't have a mechanic, really, where this is their schtick. I think it would be fun tbh.


Verzen wrote:
Plus we don't have a mechanic, really, where this is their schtick. I think it would be fun tbh.

I have a lot of things I could call it but fun isn't one of them. :P

Sczarni

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Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
graystone wrote:
Verzen wrote:
Plus we don't have a mechanic, really, where this is their schtick. I think it would be fun tbh.
I have a lot of things I could call it but fun isn't one of them. :P

You just don't like fun things. ;)


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Verzen wrote:
graystone wrote:
Verzen wrote:
Plus we don't have a mechanic, really, where this is their schtick. I think it would be fun tbh.
I have a lot of things I could call it but fun isn't one of them. :P
You just don't like fun things. ;)

I'm not a masochist.


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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Hit points are not a great balancing tool.


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Ravingdork wrote:
Hit points are not a great balancing tool.

100% agreed


Sadly, as much as I loved burn in 1e, I have to agree that HP as a resource probably doesn’t work as well in 2e now that HP attrition isn’t as much of a thing. In 1e, your HP whittled down a little bit at a time until you couldn’t afford to burn it any more (or you burned it all in a last ditch blaze of glory, which was amazing imho). Since 2e’s balance point is more towards full HP for each combat, you can’t really use it as a resource throughout the day without getting immediately knocked out in later combats. I do think there’s room and need for some sort of risk/reward mechanic, trading safety for power, I just don’t think HP is the resource to use.

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