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PF2 goes even further in this direction than PF1 did. Example : fixed HPs by level.
I highly doubt we will ever see a Paizo class that is all about randomness.
I mean, have you seen PF2? The system has intentionally made itself more random from moment to moment than many of its predecessors and direct competitors.
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I mean, have you seen PF2? The system has intentionally made itself more random from moment to moment than many of its predecessors and direct competitors.PF2 goes even further in this direction than PF1 did. Example : fixed HPs by level.
I highly doubt we will ever see a Paizo class that is all about randomness.
Examples ?
The d20 you roll for checks being more important is not at all the same thing as your abilities being random.
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The d20 you roll for checks being more important is not at all the same thing as your abilities being random.
The d20 "being more important" is literally making your abilities more random though.
That's an arbitrary line you're drawing.
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It might be an important line. Having the d20 matter makes the effects of your actions more random, but what Sanityfaire is talking about would make what actions are available to you randomized. I can see how the latter might be less than enthusiastically embraced, especially with how tactical PF2 is emphasized as being. It's difficult to form a coherent strategy if you do not know what resources you'll have to draw on next round, after all. Well, alright, that's an exaggeration, as Sanity proposes a per battle random menu generation, not per round.
That said, I can also see how that might appeal to some players, so I have no strong opinion on how likely it is we'll see a class. It would certainly fit the bill of "stranger" though.
I am having a hard time seeing how you can make it compelling (with enough abilities in your random pool to be worth that slot) but also not over powered. Perhaps taking up the focus pool budget? Or if your slots were randomly generated at the beginning of the day instead of ahead of each battle?
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The d20 you roll for checks being more important is not at all the same thing as your abilities being random.The d20 "being more important" is literally making your abilities more random though.
That's an arbitrary line you're drawing.
It makes the result of your abilities more random. Not your build and abilities.
My mental model for the "extremely chaotic class" is the Chaos Mage from 13th Age, which was a full spellcaster but did not have the ability to choose what kind of spell it cast each round.
A randomizer would determine whether the spell you can cast was offensive, defensive, or utility in nature then you'd choose from your options in each category. As a tradeoff your spells were simply more powerful than the spells that people other people choose to cast on purpose for when they'd be most useful (e.g. your basic attack cantrip was base d10 scaling up to 9d10, Magic Missile was base 2d4 scaling up to 10d6.) Moreover, as you cast you had the ability to randomly warp the world around you a la a wand of wonder where some results were beneficial and some were detrimental, but others were simply weird flavor.
I adore this class, but don't think we'll ever see anything like that in Pathfinder.
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I love the idea of the Chaomancer, since "roll on tables- the class" would be my favorite thing ever. I just think Paizo is somewhat allergic to put out a class whose power budget is almost wholly unpredictable.Many many players do not like randomness in their PC's abilities. PF2 goes even further in this direction than PF1 did. Example : fixed HPs by level.
I highly doubt we will ever see a Paizo class that is all about randomness.
They've already printed the Ancestors Oracle, they could definitely make a whole class expanding on that concept.
I adore this class, but don't think we'll ever see anything like that in Pathfinder.
Yeah, that would likely be a bridge too far for Paizo, but I could see it working in 3pp. Or perhaps cantrips are reliable but your Chaos spells work as you describe. Though again that would work better with a Focus spell budget instead of a slot budget, if you were somehow able to have 4-5 focus spells a combat instead of just 3 (doable if you trade out spell slots I think).
They've already printed the Ancestors Oracle, they could definitely make a whole class expanding on that concept.
This seems much more likely.
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I touched on it last page a little, but to say it more fully: with the Soulforger and the Mind Smith archetypes both out, I think the fantasy of a conjured weapon character might just demand more power budget than an archetype is really allowed to have. I think about the Solarian in Starfinder, or the excellent 3pp Aegis class for PF1 (from Dreamscarred’s psionic offerings), and it really makes me think an entire class could easily be there.
Shifting your weapon’s abilities mid-fight, customizing summoned armor, maybe a tiny bit of blasting… I’d play the hell out of this class. Wrap it in whatever flavor you like: manifest willpower, holy blessings, shadow made solid.
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Something like the Warden from 4e - a primal defender class that calls on nature to defend their allies and disrupt their enemies. Push and pull with rocks and vines. Keep enemies stuck to you.
I know long ago Luis Loza said he was poking at making one for third party release - maybe there's hope and it becomes first party!
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I am having a hard time seeing how you can make it compelling (with enough abilities in your random pool to be worth that slot) but also not over powered. Perhaps taking up the focus pool budget? Or if your slots were randomly generated at the beginning of the day instead of ahead of each battle?
Part of the point for me is that you're *not* getting it on a daily refresh. You do lose the beginning-of-the-day flexibility that full casters have of "I have all my slot's worth of options" but you also don't have to worry about holding anything back.
In general, Paizo has indicated that there's a built-in cost to having control over the stuff you get, and to being able to plan ahead. This class deliberately goes way over in the other direction, in the hopes of scavenging whatever bits of build budget it can get from the trade. It probably won't get *much*, but it might get *something*. Now, if the idea of being entirely unable to plan makes you twitch, then there probably isn't a way to make it compelling to you without making it OP - the class isn't for you. Given that Wellspring Mage exists, though, and there are people who willingly take it, I'd say that there are people out there who would find it sufficiently compelling, if balanced properly.
As far as randomness... well, again, we already have the wellspring mage, which is at least a step or two in that direction. Now, this particular class concept is very swingy. That's true. Sometimes you'll luck into exactly what you need for a fight and it will be awesome. Sometimes you'll roll poorly - even just a poor matchup, rather than getting specific bad results - and you'll be scrambling to contribute more than a bare minimum. It's the nature of the beast. Paizo might well decide that that's not a hassle they want to deal with, but given that it's entirely opt-in...?
Still, yeah, I put it in the "wacky ideas" thread for a reason.