I’m a bit stomped.
It might because of the wording and the language barrier (as the google translation is giving me a headache).
A player (a Witch) is telling me that she can copy a spell (that she doesn’t know) from a spell book (the she just found) onto a scroll via the Scribe Scroll Feat. Then learn it the she normally would by feeding it to her familiar.
I can’t find anything that directly says she can or can’t. And I followed a few threads but I haven’t found one that answer my question.
Can anyone help me out?
Adding Spells to a Witch’s Familiar
Witches can add new spells to their familiars through several methods. A witch can only add spells to her familiar if those spells belong to the witch’s spell list.
Spells Gained at a New Level: A witch’s familiar learns a certain amount of lore and magic as the witch adventures. Whenever a witch gains a level, she may add two spells from the witch spell list to her familiar. The two free spells must be of spell levels she can cast.
Familiar Teaching Familiar: A witch’s familiar can learn spells from another witch’s familiar. To accomplish this, the familiars must spend one hour per level of the spell being taught in communion with one another. At the end of this time, the witch whose familiar is learning a spell must make a Spellcraft check (DC 15 + spell level). If the check succeeds, the familiar has learned the spell and the witch may utilize it the next time she prepares spells. If the check fails, the familiar has failed to learn the spell and cannot try to learn that spell again until the witch has gained another rank in Spellcraft. Most witches require a spell of equal or greater level in return for this service. If a familiar belongs to a witch that has died, it only retains its knowledge of spells for 24 hours, during which time it is possible to coerce or bribe the familiar into teaching its spells to another, subject to GM discretion.
Learn from a Scroll: A witch can use a scroll to teach her familiar a new spell. This process takes 1 hour per level of the spell to be learned, during which time the scroll is burned and its ashes used to create a special brew or powder that is consumed by the familiar. This process destroys the scroll. At the end of this time, the witch must make a Spellcraft check (DC 15 + spell level). If the check fails, the process went awry in some way and the spell is not learned, although the scroll is still consumed.
This can be found at the bottom of this page: Witch's Familiar. The Witch may learn spells from either a Scroll or from Furby sessions with another witch's familiar. So she should be buying scrolls or seeking out witches to increase her spells known.
Also from that page:
By forging strange bonds with unnameable beings, witches gain the service of a mystical adviser, a familiar to both serve her and reveal to her secrets unknown to most mortals. A familiar is an animal chosen by a witch to aid her in her spellcasting and grant her special powers. This uses the same rules as the wizard’s arcane bond class feature, except as noted below. A witch uses her level as her effective wizard level when determining the abilities of her familiar. A witch can choose any of the familiars available to a wizard in addition to the new familiars presented here.
Levels of different classes that are entitled to familiars stack for the purpose of determining any familiar abilities that depend on the witch’s level. If a witch possesses such levels, her familiar always uses the witch rules for familiars, not those provided by other classes, such as wizards or sorcerers with the arcane bloodline. A witch’s familiar only stores witch spells. All other spells are stored normally, as noted in their class features. If a familiar is lost or dies, it can be replaced 1 day later through a special ritual that costs 500 gp per witch level. The ritual takes 8 hours to complete. A new familiar begins knowing all of the 0-level spells plus two spells of every level the witch is able to cast. These are in addition to any bonus spells known by the familiar based on the witch’s level and her patron (see patron spells).
Does not work because you need to be able to cast a spell in order to scribe a scroll of it, and a spellbook doesn't let you do that (for non-Wizards, obviously).
Relevant rules quotes:
"you cannot create potions, spell-trigger, or spell-completion magic items without meeting their spell prerequisites." CRB pg. 549
"Spell Completion: This is the activation method for scrolls." CRB pg. 458
"A spell prerequisite may be provided by a character who has prepared the spell (or who knows the spell, in the case of a sorcerer or bard), or through the use of a spell completion or spell trigger magic item or a spell-like ability that produces the desired spell effect." CRB pg. 461
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Does not work because you need to be able to cast a spell in order to scribe a scroll of it, and a spellbook doesn't let you do that (for non-Wizards, obviously).
Relevant rules quotes:
"you cannot create potions, spell-trigger, or spell-completion magic items without meeting their spell prerequisites." CRB pg. 549
"Spell Completion: This is the activation method for scrolls." CRB pg. 458
"A spell prerequisite may be provided by a character who has prepared the spell (or who knows the spell, in the case of a sorcerer or bard), or through the use of a spell completion or spell trigger magic item or a spell-like ability that produces the desired spell effect." CRB pg. 461
Even wizards can't CST a spell from a borrowed spellbook without learning it first and writing it in their spellbook.
As strange as it can sound until you write the spell at least once in your spellbook you can't prepare it, even if it is before your nose and you have learned it.
Does not work because you need to be able to cast a spell in order to scribe a scroll of it, and a spellbook doesn't let you do that (for non-Wizards, obviously).
Relevant rules quotes:
"you cannot create potions, spell-trigger, or spell-completion magic items without meeting their spell prerequisites." CRB pg. 549
"Spell Completion: This is the activation method for scrolls." CRB pg. 458
"A spell prerequisite may be provided by a character who has prepared the spell (or who knows the spell, in the case of a sorcerer or bard), or through the use of a spell completion or spell trigger magic item or a spell-like ability that produces the desired spell effect." CRB pg. 461Even wizards can't CST a spell from a borrowed spellbook without learning it first and writing it in their spellbook.
As strange as it can sound until you write the spell at least once in your spellbook you can't prepare it, even if it is before your nose and you have learned it.
as long as it's a spell he once had in his own spellbook a wizard can prepare from borrowed books
(beside the point that wizards do not cast spells from their book. they prepare it from books and cast from memory)
he would need to decipher the borrowed book and then pass a spellcraft check, but he can prepare his spells from a borrowed book.
The creator must have prepared the spell to be scribed (or must know the spell, in the case of a sorcerer or bard) and must provide any material component or focus the spell requires. A material component is consumed when she begins writing, but a focus is not. (A focus used in scribing a scroll can be reused.) The act of writing triggers the prepared spell, making it unavailable for casting until the character has rested and regained spells. (That is, that spell slot is expended from the caster's currently prepared spells, just as if it had been cast.)
To scribe a scroll a prepared caster needs to actually prepare it, not just know it. Even a Wizard cannot create a scroll from their own spell book without preparing it first. A spontaneous caster just needs to know the spell. Basically, what it comes down to is you have to be able to actually cast the spell to be able to create a scroll. A prepared caster cannot cast a spell without preparing it. Since a Witch cannot prepare the spell unless it is known by their familiar, they cannot use scribe scroll on a spell found in a spell book.
If the Witch finds a scroll with a spell on their list, they can use that already created scroll to teach their familiar the spell. The only way for the witch to learn a spell for a spell book would be to have someone else create the scroll for them. They might be able to cut a deal with a Wizard to where the Wizard keeps the book in return for scribing the spells from the book to a scroll.
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Does not work because you need to be able to cast a spell in order to scribe a scroll of it, and a spellbook doesn't let you do that (for non-Wizards, obviously).
Relevant rules quotes:
"you cannot create potions, spell-trigger, or spell-completion magic items without meeting their spell prerequisites." CRB pg. 549
"Spell Completion: This is the activation method for scrolls." CRB pg. 458
"A spell prerequisite may be provided by a character who has prepared the spell (or who knows the spell, in the case of a sorcerer or bard), or through the use of a spell completion or spell trigger magic item or a spell-like ability that produces the desired spell effect." CRB pg. 461Even wizards can't CST a spell from a borrowed spellbook without learning it first and writing it in their spellbook.
As strange as it can sound until you write the spell at least once in your spellbook you can't prepare it, even if it is before your nose and you have learned it.as long as it's a spell he once had in his own spellbook a wizard can prepare from borrowed books
(beside the point that wizards do not cast spells from their book. they prepare it from books and cast from memory)
he would need to decipher the borrowed book and then pass a spellcraft check, but he can prepare his spells from a borrowed book.
As I said, you need to have written at least once the spell in one of your spellbooks.
Not helpful for the OP, but for the sake of completedness:
The only way for the witch to learn a spell for a spell book would be to have someone else create the scroll for them.
There is another way: A Wyrm Witch can learn spells out of spellbooks, and a could teach that spell to another Witch's familiar, both at no cost (although the spell vanishes from the spellbook).
Actually, the Wyrm Witch Archetype is helpful to the OP. I specifically calls out that the archetype allows you to learn spells from a wizard’s spell book. If this was something a normal witch could already do there would be no need to include this as an ability.
Thank you everyone for your help.
It has cleared a lot of things that I missed in the rules.
The tips and insights are greatly appreciated.
I will be suggesting your idea of cutting a deal with a wizard, Mysterious Stranger.
Thank you all