Is any monster's flight speed explicitly supernatural?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


As far as I can tell, no. That said, I would think it's implied for some monsters, as, say, a demilich doesn't have any wings or the like so how could it possibly fly without magic?


Cythnigot have explicitly spell like flight, I assume there's a few other examples of monster with constant fly spells.

Fly is listed as either supernatural or extraordinary as a monster ability, but most creatures don't seem to flag it one way or the other.

Liberty's Edge

I think it is left to the GM's interpretation. For most monsters it is evident, for some not so. A Ghost fly is "natural" because it is incorporeal or supernatural for the same reason? For a Will-o- wisp?

The Exchange

This is one of those cases where the issue was noted and corrected, but didn't make it into all the books. Bestiary 2 (and later) define Flight slightly more completely than Bestiary 1. Presumably if Bestiary 1 had gone into another printing it should have been updated.

Bestiary 2 and 3 wrote:
Flight (Ex, Sp, or Su) A creature with this ability can cease or resume flight as a free action. If the creature has wings, flight is an extraordinary ability. Otherwise, it is spell-like or supernatural, and it is ineffective in an antimagic field; the creature loses its ability to fly for as long as the antimagic effect persists. Format: fly 30 ft. (average); Location: Speed.

edit: I just double-checked and it's actually even more complicated than that. The above is the language from Bestiaries 2 and 3. Bestiary 4 doesn't define flight at all, and Bestiaries 5 and 6 went back to the language from Bestiary 1. At a guess - when they were putting together Bestiaries 5 and 6 they just pulled the language from Bestiary 1 and didn't think to check against the later entries. Doubt that it was a deliberately considered reversion in the language (there's no rationale for doing so), so I would go with the language from 2 and 3.


^If I remember correctly, in D&D 3.x, at least one monster that didn't have wings was explicitly listed as having flight as what was for practical purposes an Extraordinary Ability (even though they didn't have that name) even though it didn't have wings, presumably so you couldn't completely immobilize a Beholder with an Anti-Magic Field (and they couldn't completely immobilize each other with Anti-Magic Ray). The Beholder was one of WotC's Product Identity monsters, so Pathfinder didn't inherit it, and I can't think of any other examples, so Pathfinder apparently didn't inherit any other monsters that would have broken the quoted rule.

Liberty's Edge

Probably it was a Gas spore, https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Gas_spore.
I recall some sources saying that it floats thanks to the gas it produces. Essentially it is a balloon filled with a gas that is lighter than air.


^That makes 2 examples: Beholder and Gas Spore (which I had forgotten about).


Even way back in 2nd D&D edition, Eastern dragons that are wingless were flying without wings (using something like a 'divine pearl' inside them that allow them to fly, if I recall the lore right).


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https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/outsiders/azata/ghaele/

ghaele

Light Form (Su)
A ghaele can shift between its solid body and one made of light as a standard action. In solid form, it cannot fly or use light rays. In light form, it can fly and gains the incorporeal quality—it can make light ray attacks or use spell-like abilities in this form, but can’t make physical attacks or cast spells. This ability otherwise functions similarly to a bralani’s wind form ability.

bralani
Wind Form (Su)
A bralani can shift between its humanoid
body and a body made of wind and mist as a standard
action. In humanoid form, it cannot fly or use its whirlwind
blast. In wind form, it functions as if under the effects of a
wind walk spell.


Witches have Flight (Su) and Shamans have Wings (Su) hexes.

The spell Necromantic Fly is a Magic Spell, but it is not sustained by magic and causes you to physically grow wings so it functions in areas like AMF's and Walls of Suppression.

Fly, Necromantic wrote:

Fly, Necromantic

School necromancy [evil]; Level alchemist 3, bloodrager 3, magus 3, shaman 3, sorcerer/wizard 3, summoner/unchained summoner 3, witch 3; Domain travel 3, void 3; Subdomain azata (chaos) 3, feather 3

CASTING

Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, M

EFFECT

Range touch
Target creature touched
Duration 1 min./level
Saving Throw Will negates (harmless); Spell Resistance yes (harmless)

DESCRIPTION

This spell functions like fly, except that rather than being sustained by magic, the target grows a pair of batlike or birdlike undead wings that allows them to fly.

The wings have hit dice (d12s) equal to half your caster level and 6 hit points per hit die. The wings are a separate creature for the purpose of all effects (such as targeted and area effects). They use the target’s saving throw bonuses, and the target’s defenses (such as protection from energy) apply to the wings. The wings are destroyed, the spell ends (carrying the target safely to the ground as explained in the fly spell).

The wings are vulnerable to turning or command undead attempts. If effected by the Turn Undead feat, the wings flee (bringing the target with them) on the target’s turn for the duration of the turning. If effected by the Command Undead feat or a spell like command undead, the wings cower and refuse to move the target from its present location (though this doesn’t prevent the target from using other methods to move or performing actions). If commanded, the commanding creature can direct where the target flies but does not otherwise control the target.

Material Component: A black onyx gem worth at least 1 gp.

Liberty's Edge

Ryze Kuja wrote:

Witches have Flight (Su) and Shamans have Wings (Su) hexes.

The spell Necromantic Fly is a Magic Spell, but it is not sustained by magic and causes you to physically grow wings so it functions in areas like AMF's and Walls of Suppression.

Fly, Necromantic wrote:

Fly, Necromantic

Duration 1 min./level

It is a spell with a duration, it doesn't work in AMF, so the wings disappear and you stop flying.


Diego Rossi wrote:


It is a spell with a duration, it doesn't work in AMF, so the wings disappear and you stop flying.

Incorrect, the motility of this form of flying is not sustained by magic, and it even says so in the spell.


It certainly looks like a spell with a duration that would end in an antimagic field. I don't see any reason the wings would fall into the " imbued with magic during their creation process and are thereafter self-supporting" caveat, since the wings have a finite duration linked to the spell.


Undead created by magic can walk into anti-magic fields.


I think you're oversimplifying the rule. Undead created with magic that are thereafter self supporting can walk into anti-magic fields. For instance, you couldn't use skeleton summoner to get through an anti-magic field.


I don't think the guy who created this spell took the time to say "these are necromantic wings that grow out of your body and function like undead and can be turned by turn undead and can be commanded by command undead and these wings are now a part of your body and not sustained by magic" and then wanted it to get wrecked by anti-magic fields.


If you polymorph into a bird you gain (ex) flight, but would be unable to fly in an AMF because the spell itself is suppressed. I would rule the same for this, odd, necromantic pseudo-polymorph.


Java Man wrote:
If you polymorph into a bird you gain (ex) flight, but would be unable to fly in an AMF because the spell itself is suppressed. I would rule the same for this, odd, necromantic pseudo-polymorph.

Polymorph spells are affected by AMF's, so you'd be right to do so.


Exactly Java Man, the spell is suppressed, nothing in the text says the spell functions in an anti-magic field and nothing in anti-magic field spell gives an exception for this type of spell, so its suppressed.


Spells that work under an Antimagic Field are very rare -- Prismatic Wall explicitly says it does in its own description, and Antimagic Field itself, Prismatic Sphere and Wall of Force are let off the hook in the description of Antimagic Field, while the inclusion there of Wall of Force semi-implies that Emergency Force Sphere also works (but it's a lower-level spell than Wall of Force, so you could make an argument against it), while Aroden's Spellbane can trump Antimagic Field according to its own description (although its own description also says that it trumps other castings of itself, which brings up the question of what happens when 2 castings of it that are directed against each other come together).

So the overwhelming majority of spells go lights out (suppressed, not dispelled) if they get into an Antimagic Field, including Fly (which also has explicit text that you don't even get to use the automatic safe landing feature in an Antimagic Field) and Necromantic Fly, but not Undead created by an Instantaneous spell that finishes its work and is no longer around by the time the Antimagic field is there.

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