Polymorph from Tiny to Diminutive weirdness

[Xavram5]

So a player who is Tiny (Halfling with permanent Reduce Person on him) is going to cast Fey Form to change into a Diminutive Fey.

According to Transform/Polymorph rules...

"If a polymorph spell is cast on a creature that is smaller than Small or larger than Medium, first adjust its ability scores to one of these two sizes using the following table before applying the bonuses granted by the polymorph spell. (see Table: Ability Adjustments from Size Changes)"

For a Tiny going To Small, says he should get a +4 on Str and -2 on Dex.

Then, from Fey Form III, for Diminutive, he gets a +8 to Dex and -4 to Str.

So a net result of +6 to Dex, +0 to Str....er...is this right?

What makes this totally blow my mind is that if he was a Small creature using this spell, he'd just get a +8 to Dex and -4 to Str!

Are we doing this right? And then for either of these sizes, because they're going from Small to Diminutive, would pick up the +2/-2 for To Hit/AC and CMB/CMD respectively.

Do I have this all correct? Or are we missing something?

Thanks!

[Lemartes]

No. Use the stats for the Halfling at small then do the +8 dex/-4 str.

[Xavram5]

Wait, so what, just ignore that rule in Transform/Polymorph? What's the rule for then?

[Mysterious Stranger]

Lemartes is correct. The halfling is not really a tiny creature he is small. Fey form is not reducing your size by x categories it is transforming you directly to the size the spell allows. So, in order to assume the form of a diminutive fey you would need to be using Fey Form III, Fey form only allows you to assume the form of a small or medium fey. The fact that he has a long-term reduction of his size is irrelevant, all that matters is what size the spell allows you to assume.

[Lemartes]

Also isn't there a rule that states you can't be under the effects of more than one polymorph effect at one time?

[Diego Rossi]

Lemartes wrote:

Also isn't there a rule that states you can't be under the effects of more than one polymorph effect at one time?

Yes, there is. Reduce person isn't a polymorph effect, it is a transmutation effect, so that rule doesn't matter.

What matter is a rule about increasing/decreasing size in Enlarge person and Reduce person:
Multiple magical effects that increase size do not stack.
Multiple magical effects that reduce size do not stack.

The general consensus is that it applies to effects that increase and decrease the size of the same person at the same time.

P.S.: it appears in Animal growth and Reduce animal, too, and some polymorph spells that change your size.

[Lemartes]

Ah cool. :)

[Xavram5]

So, just to be clear, when DO you apply this rule?

"If a polymorph spell is cast on a creature that is smaller than Small or larger than Medium, first adjust its ability scores to one of these two sizes using the following table before applying the bonuses granted by the polymorph spell. (see Table: Ability Adjustments from Size Changes)"

[Claxon]

Xavram5 wrote:

So, just to be clear, when DO you apply this rule?

"If a polymorph spell is cast on a creature that is smaller than Small or larger than Medium, first adjust its ability scores to one of these two sizes using the following table before applying the bonuses granted by the polymorph spell. (see Table: Ability Adjustments from Size Changes)"

Primarily when NPC characters that are naturally tiny or naturally Large size use polymorph affects.

[Mysterious Stranger]

The rule is for creatures whose are actually those sizes. For example, if a spell casting giant cast fey form on themselves, they would fall under this rule.

[Xavram5]

Gotcha...so because he's Tiny FROM a Reduce Person, and that sizing doesn't stack with Fey Form, he doesn't get the +4 Str/-2 Dex adjustment.

Thanks all!