So just now getting to actually play some 2E and am looking at playing a magus. My main question is if spellstrike counts as Casting A Spell or Making a Strike for the purpose of feats/abilities that need your next action or last action to be one of those things.
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Probably not. You might be able to argue that the subordinate action of casting a spell as part of a spellstrike is the last action you did and then be able to use something that has that as a requirement. But it is pretty much impossible to argue that you could use metamagic that requires that your next action be to cast a spell. The next action you are using is to start Spellstrike.
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And Arcane Cascade explicitly lists spellstrike separately in addition to casting a spell as your previous action in the requirements.
I think the Strike is the last subordinate action in a Spellstrike.
Spellstrike => cast => Strike. That would explain why Arcane Cascade had to list it separately.
There also doesn't seem to be a "deliver the spell's effects" portion after the Strike, so "next action is a Spellstrike" and "last action was a Strike" abilities should work, w/ possible exceptions as always.
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There also doesn't seem to be a "deliver the spell's effects" portion after the Strike, so "next action is a Spellstrike" and "last action was a Strike" abilities should work, w/ possible exceptions as always.
I think the spell effects are delivered after the strike.
The spell takes effect after the Strike deals damage; if the Strike has other special effects, the GM determines whether they happen before or after the spell.
Yes, but how about the actions to cast the spell?
It is a bit messy. Fortunately, the only thing I can think of that triggers off of 'your last action was to cast a spell' is Arcane Cascade - which also works if your last action was spellstrike.
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There also doesn't seem to be a "deliver the spell's effects" portion after the Strike, so "next action is a Spellstrike" and "last action was a Strike" abilities should work, w/ possible exceptions as always.I think the spell effects are delivered after the strike.
The spell takes effect after the Strike deals damage; if the Strike has other special effects, the GM determines whether they happen before or after the spell.
That's an event, yes, but not a subordinate action AFAICT, no more than the Strike's other special effects would be I'd think.
Bespell weapon?
Ah, yes. That would be another.
That's an event, yes, but not a subordinate action AFAICT, no more than the Strike's other special effects would be I'd think....
There also doesn't seem to be a "deliver the spell's effects" portion after the Strike, so "next action is a Spellstrike" and "last action was a Strike" abilities should work, w/ possible exceptions as always.I think the spell effects are delivered after the strike.
The spell takes effect after the Strike deals damage; if the Strike has other special effects, the GM determines whether they happen before or after the spell.
I was questioning your statement that 'There also doesn't seem to be a "deliver the spell's effects" portion after the Strike...' Since the spell effects are delivered after the damage from the Strike, the spell effects have to be delivered after the Strike itself.
I was questioning your statement that 'There also doesn't seem to be a "deliver the spell's effects" portion after the Strike...' Since the spell effects are delivered after the damage from the Strike, the spell effects have to be delivered after the Strike itself.That's an event, yes, but not a subordinate action AFAICT, no more than the Strike's other special effects would be I'd think....
There also doesn't seem to be a "deliver the spell's effects" portion after the Strike, so "next action is a Spellstrike" and "last action was a Strike" abilities should work, w/ possible exceptions as always.I think the spell effects are delivered after the strike.
The spell takes effect after the Strike deals damage; if the Strike has other special effects, the GM determines whether they happen before or after the spell.
Yeah, that came from the Spellstrike action entry which ends on making the Strike and using it to determine the effects of both the Strike & the spell. I read that as the Strike being last, even if it's complicated by applying two (or more) effects too. And that there's no subordinate "deliver the spell's effects" action being taken by the Magus afterward; it's already bundled into the Strike. Though yes, when parsed the order of events can be important in some cases, the Strike remains the last subordinate action.
Bespell weapon?Yes, but how about the actions to cast the spell?
It is a bit messy. Fortunately, the only thing I can think of that triggers off of 'your last action was to cast a spell' is Arcane Cascade - which also works if your last action was spellstrike.
Bespectacled weapon definitely doesn't work, there. The subordinate actions of Spellstrike are:
1. Cast A Spell2. Strike
For Bespell Weapon to work, it would have to go between 1 and 2. But Bespell Weapon is not a Triggered Free Action, so it can't ever be done in the middle of an activity.
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Bespectacled weapon definitely doesn't work,
Bespectacled weapon makes me think of some sort of homebrewed Talisman. Probably based on (or maybe just a reflavoring of) Sniper's Bead.
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Bespectacled weapon definitely doesn't work,Bespectacled weapon makes me think of some sort of homebrewed Talisman. Probably based on (or maybe just a reflavoring of) Sniper's Bead.
Now I'm just thinking about a unique Beast Weapon that is made from a particular creature with especially bad eyesight and is adorned with a set of bifocals that can be Activated to switch between a melee and ranged attack function.
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Seems that this morning everyone is having problems with spelling.
I am assuming Stab and Blast and Ranged Strike. As well as Clear a Path.
It does appear that you would be using 0 MAP for all three by RAW. Both the melee Strike and the ranged Strike from Stab and Blast would be at 0 MAP, and then it would increase to 2nd stage MAP. But then Clear a Path states that you use the same MAP as the ranged Strike from your previous action. Which in this case is 0 MAP.
That does seem to be a bit of an exploit though. The only way to prevent the exploit is to rule that the subordinate ranged Strike action isn't the last action that you did, but that it will only look at the entire action that you paid an action cost for - in this case Stab and Blast.
The justification for this is symmetry. If an ability is looking forward to the next action that you do, we always look at the action that you pay the cost for. If that doesn't qualify, than the entire ability is invalid - even if the first subordinate action of the activity would qualify. So it would make sense to run backwards looking abilities the same way. You don't look at the last subordinate action, you only look at the entire single action or activity that you paid action cost for.
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I mean, I wouldn't forbid a magus from activating arcane cascade because of the action order and then forbid another class from using a perk ( given the proper order) because in that specific case the effect would be good.
If it comes down to rules, it has to explicitly be the same regardless the character.
With the ruling that you always look at the activity instead of subordinate actions for backwards looking action requirements as well as forward looking ones, it could be applied to all characters. Arcane Cascade would still work because Arcane Cascade has listed Spellstrike as a possible previous action to trigger the ability with. Bespell Weapon doesn't and so wouldn't work - but it doesn't work in either ruling. And Clear the Way wouldn't work with Stab and Blast either.
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Stab and Blast and Clear the Way are both vanguard-only abilities. It's not some recherché combination between two different classes or anything. Entirely possible that they were specifically written together so that you could use them like this.
And it's not like you have total freedom in what weapons to use either. The allowed melee weapons are fairly limited. It's great action economy but at the cost of those actions being mediocre.
Stab and Blast and Clear the Way are both vanguard-only abilities. It's not some recherché combination between two different classes or anything. Entirely possible that they were specifically written together so that you could use them like this.
That's a good point.
I'm still quite likely to rule in my games that you don't look at subordinate actions for both forward looking abilities or backward looking abilities because of the symmetry of it. But I will probably also rule that the interaction of class feats and features from the same class should have a bit more leeway on it.
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Im not wrong on this am I?
No.
You can use only one single action, activity, or free action that doesn’t have a trigger at a time. You must complete one before beginning another. For example, the Sudden Charge activity states you must Stride twice and then Strike, so you couldn’t use an Interact action to open a door in the middle of the movement, nor could you perform part of the move, make your attack, and then finish the move.
Free actions with triggers and reactions work differently. You can use these whenever the trigger occurs, even if the trigger occurs in the middle of another action.
Conduct Energy is a free action, but it is not a free action with a trigger. So it cannot be used in the middle of another activity.